Genital Mutilation Now a Reality in America: Coming soon to your Neighborhood

[Pogo]

WHERE in your completely unlinked hadith does Mohammed say it's a religious thing

Why are you asking me? Ask the Muslims who cite it. My answer, from an outside perspective, is that simply by describing mohammed's approval and even instruction, many Muslims take it as doctrine. Which is a fact . You can find analogues of this process in Christianity as well. Islam is not only religion with prophets .

You were asked where FGM appeared in the Quran and you admitted it does not.

Hadiths do not containe "doctrines". Those are glorified anecdotes. You related one (we have to assume, it's unlinked) that describes Mohammed meeting a cutter. All that proves is that FGM was already extant before Islam was. Which is all very well but we already knew that, except for the bigot brigade who keep insisting it's a religious thing.

You're really grasping at straws here to make a point that cannot be made. I don't get why you're doing that.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I'd be good with not allowing child genital mutilation.

Male circumcision too?

Yup. Just knock all of that off.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hadiths do not containe "doctrines".

Says you. In reality, many muslims take the behaviors and words of Mohammed in the hadiths as doctrine. That is simply a fact. And the hadiths most certainly are canon, as much as the new testament is in christianity.

You related one (we have to assume, it's unlinked) that describes Mohammed meeting a cutter.

... and not only saying he will allow FGM, but showing her the best way to do it. Why did you leave that out, especially considering it was germane to the point you were, ostensibly, addressing? I'm starting to think you're either not interested in or not equipped to have an honest discussion on this topic.

 

[XponentialChaos]

 

[Pogo]

Hadiths do not containe "doctrines".

Says you. In reality, many muslims take the behaviors and words of Mohammed in the hadiths as doctrine. That is simply a fact. And the hadiths most certainly are canon, as much as the new testament is in christianity.

You related one (we have to assume, it's unlinked) that describes Mohammed meeting a cutter.

... and not only saying he will allow FGM, but showing her the best way to do it. Why did you leave that out, especially considering it was germane to the point you were, ostensibly, addressing? I'm starting to think you're either not interested or not equipped to have an honest discussion on this topic.

Because it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, that's why. Just because Mohammed looks at the sky and thinks it might rain or Jesus says it won't, doesn't make them religious doctrines.

Sorry, some clown alleging without a link that Mohammed met a cutter one day and commented on how it should be done, doesn't make it part of a religion. Not everything Mohammed does means it's part of Islam. Just as if Frank Robinson buys a Volkswagen that doesn't make Volkswagen a "baseball car".

As I said, you failed to show where Mohammed declares it to be so anyway. The fact that he met a cutter, seriously, that's your argument? Hell I've met doctors, that doesn't make me a brain surgeon. Don't talk to me about "honest argument" while you're sitting here fomenting the same ignorance the OP plopped in here.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I (weakly) applaud the efforts of the Somali government leaders and clerics who are trying to reform somalis away from this practice.

And when they are done, then we can ask them why they still support death for apostasy .They will have a one word answer: Islam.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Because it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION

Which is an utterly absurd thing to say, as those engaging in it will tell you they do it for their religion. So I reject that absurd declaration as self-evidently wrong.

Sorry, some clown alleging without a link that Mohammed met a cutter one day and commented on how it should be done,

*And expressed approval. Oops, ya left that out again.

And you don't have to take my word for it. you can Google the text yourself. If you truly cared whether or not that was a passage from a Hadith, you would already have done so. Which proves you aren't actually interested if it is or not (despite bringing it up 3 times now), which further shows that you are not interested in or equipped to have an honest discussion on this topic.

As I said, you failed to show where Mohammed declares it to be so anyway.

I posted a passage from the hadiths on which Mohammed not only approves of FGM, but also teaches someone the best way to do it. For many Muslims, that's enough. So go complain to them, as the clerics in Somalia are.

 

[Papageorgio]

It is about 50% that get circumcised, and there are medical benefits.

Actually, it's about 80%.

Actually all the information I looked up put the number around 50% not anywhere near 80%.

Then you read the wrong information.

You have proof or just being stupid?

 

[Pogo]

Because it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION

Which is an utter you absurd thing to say, as those engaging in it will tell you they donit for their religion. So I reject that absurd declaration.

Sorry, some clown alleging without a link that Mohammed met a cutter one day and commented on how it should be done,

*And expressed approval. Oops, ya left that out again.

And you don't have to take my word for it. you can Google the text yourself. If you truly cared whether or not that was a passage from a Hadith, you would already have done so. Which proves you aren't actually interested if it is or not (despite bringing it up 3 times now), which further shows that you are not interested in or equipped to have an honest discussion on this topic.

As I said, you failed to show where Mohammed declares it to be so anyway.

I posted a passage from the hadiths on which Mohammed not only approves of FGM, but also teaches someone the best way to do it. For many Muslims, that's enough. So go complain to them, as the clerics in Somalia are.

And here you are, undermining those clerics' work.

Correct, I'm not interested and I'm not about to lift a finger to do your homework FOR you. If you had a legitimate link you would have posted it, and I'm happy to point out that you didn't.

And again, as noted before by your own logic you must "blame" Christianism for the Nazi Holocaust, because after all Hitler used it as a crutch and we all know Hitler would never misrepresent anything for his own gain, now would he. Because by golly if Hitler and Eric Rudolph and all those abortion bombers/murderers said they did it for Jesus, then by god Jesus is responsible.

SMH

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If you had a legitimate link you would have posted it, and I'm happy to point out that you didn't.

Well that's terrible logic: If a person does not spoonfeed you a link, then it's not true. Are you sure about that?

And again, as noted before by your own logic you must "blame" Christianism for the Nazi Holocaust

A little bit, absolutely. What idiot would not?
Hitler's ideas found widespread, willing purchase in the catholic churches of Germany, Italy, and elsewhere, which were hyperfertile ground for anti semitism, precisely because their religion. They celebrated his birthday like a holiday . They looooved them some Hitler, for sure.

 

[Pogo]

If you had a legitimate link you would have posted it, and I'm happy to point out that you didn't.

Well that's terrible logic: If a person does not spoonfeed you a link, then it's not true. Are you sure about that?

I'm never "sure" about words attributed to me that I didn't say.

What I do believe is that if you don't link it, it may or may not be true but we have no way of knowing you didn't just make it up.
And frankly the longer you go on using it without a link, the more bogus it looks. But that's your choice.

[

And again, as noted before by your own logic you must "blame" Christianism for the Nazi Holocaust

A little bit, absolutely. What idiot would not?
Hitler's ideas found widespread, willing purchase in the catholic churches of Germany, Italy, and elsewhere, which were hyperfertile ground for anti semitism, precisely because their religion. They celebrated his birthday like a holiday . They looooved them some Hitler, for sure.

You just don't get it do ya.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

it may or may not be true but we have no way of knowing you didn't just make it up.
And frankly the

Sure you do. For one, you can look it up yourself. Second, the article i linked is annotated. Admittedly, you will have a hard time finding the Sunnah posted in full online for free.

I get it, amd you do not. Anti semitism had (has) to be reformed out of Christianity. Thats a religion and a culture which intersect, and only a fool would leave out the most imprortant part of the discussion: the origin, in their religion, of anti semitism. Moderate Christians certainly don't leave that out. So you aren't helping them, ajd you're not helping moderate Muslims who are trying to reform islam, with your reflexive tap dancing.

 

[Pogo]

Ha! That is great. I did not know that about Kellog. I knew he was a puritannical freak but.... shit. Pouring acid on the quim?

When that first doctor came in I thought it was John McEnroe.

And all the parallels with the whole Victorian/19th century FGM in Europe and America. Kind of eerie.

 

[jehanne1431]

You have parents that are allowed to feed their kids drugs
that alter and interfere with the progression of their gender

You have medical professionals that encourage such
and provide the services for, and mental health professionals
that see absolutely nothing wrong with any of it

Who are we to decide people’s customs

.
I guess it depends on what customs.

10 Horrors Of Aztec Ritual Human Sacrifice - Listverse

This isn't an either / or matter. Some customs are tolerated, others are inhumane and men of righteousness must act to destroy it. We don't walk through this earth totally in the clouds with no conscience or understanding of moral natural law. I consider female genital mutilation to be inhumane and should be a crime in the U.S. Islam does not dictate what is allowed in our laws any more than any other religion or ideology. The consensus of citizens normally should rule. Inducing hormones or hormone blockers in children is just as cruel or worse. You avant garde types are listening to poorly formed consciences or anti-God prophets.

 

[The Original Tree]

What a liar and ignorant illiterate fool a person has to be to claim Christianity has elements of Anti-Semitism in it, when The Bible itself declares that God will bless them that bless Israel and curse them that curse Israel.

Every Christian I know believes that.

Islam curses Israel. So perhaps you should discuss the intersect of God & The People He chose to bring the world His Gospel vs an entirely Anti-Semetic Ideology in Islam that declares that to kill a Christian or Jew is doing “god” a favor. I can reference another scripture in The Bible that references this Evil if you’d like.

Islam does not worship The God of The Bible, but they bow down 5 times a day to the god with a little “g” of Islam. That’s who they worship. .... The “little horn” “the son of perdition”....the father of lies....or as Islam describes him, “the great deceiver”

it may or may not be true but we have no way of knowing you didn't just make it up.
And frankly the

Sure you do. For one, you can look it up yourself. Second, the article i linked is annotated. Admittedly, you will have a hard time finding the Sunnah posted in full online for free.

I get it, amd you do not. Anti semitism had (has) to be reformed out of Christianity. Thats a religion and a culture which intersect, and only a fool would leave out the most imprortant part of the discussion: the origin, in their religion, of anti semitism. Moderate Christians certainly don't leave that out. So you aren't helping them, ajd you're not helping moderate Muslims who are trying to reform islam, with your reflexive tap dancing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What a liar and ignorant illiterate fool a person has to be to claim Christianity has elements of Anti-Semitic in it, when The Bible itself declares that God will bless them that bless Israel.

Every Christian I know believes that.

Well, you are free to call the clerical class of the German and Italian Catholic churches in 1939 "ignorant, illiterate, foolish liars", if you like. Knock yourself out. Then you can contend with the congregations. Virtually all of them most certainly did take anti-semitism from within (and from without) the Bible. I would applaud you for doing it. That is what reform looks like. But you will have to travel back in time to do it, which presents a bit of a problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

As far as the OP's whiny-little-bitch special pleading about "where is the left's outrage", the existence of FGM was first brought to Western attention in the 1970s by Gloria Steinem. While OP-boi was asleep.

AND YET today --- feminists and genital mutators are sitting in the SAME SEATS in Congress together. Funny how your sense of right and wrong can get bargained away when it's more important to create identity politics and alliances to "win"....

WTF are you even babbling about here? Where are these "genital mutators" in Congress then, and how are they remotely related to the post I quoted here?

The OP posted some of his BULLSHIT and I cleaned it up. You're welcome. And I did that because the lying-ass PUNK doesn't have the balls to clean up after himself.

Where are the feminists joining forces with people who support tossing gays off roofs and mutilating pre-teen girls?? There right there in the Halleluia Chorus Women's Prog Caucus.. You know -- those Choir women dressed in white...

You need to go re-read the trials of Hercules. You've got a LOT of "cleaning up to do" in your own House bud..

Your tribe is cannibalizing their own and the constituencies that they are now pitting against one another. .. Maybe you should take care of THAT business before you go rescuing the rest of with your super hero fantasy....

 

[jehanne1431]

What a liar and ignorant illiterate fool a person has to be to claim Christianity has elements of Anti-Semitic in it, when The Bible itself declares that God will bless them that bless Israel.

Every Christian I know believes that.

Well, you are free to call the clerical class of the German and Italian Catholic churches in 1939 "ignorant, ililterate, foolish liars", if you like. Knock yourself out. Then you can contend with the congregations. Virtually all of them most certainly did take anti-semitism from within (and from without) the Bible. I would applaud you for doing it. That is what reform looks like. But you will have to travel back in time to do it, which presents a bit of a problem.

.
In some respects only. The Catholic Church (and early protestants) struggled in understanding the Jewish plight and acted very wrongly on many occasions. It was the European monarchs as well who banished the Jews, but no one is denying forms of abuse. That is the dark ages and middle ages where all forms of civilization were far more barbaric then now, spreading across all global forms of rule, not just the Church.

The Church was not into conquering lands by war or converting by the sword. (I do not want to hear about your outliers or incidences that might say otherwise.) And the Crusades were justified, the actions of soldiers under little rule towards Jews was another story, a sinful one. But again, don’t throw your 20th century morals at ancient history and stand so righteous. That would be a joke. Catholicism, in most ways, does not condemn any people or religion to perdition, not in their doctrines or councils.

 

[Pogo]

As far as the OP's whiny-little-bitch special pleading about "where is the left's outrage", the existence of FGM was first brought to Western attention in the 1970s by Gloria Steinem. While OP-boi was asleep.

AND YET today --- feminists and genital mutators are sitting in the SAME SEATS in Congress together. Funny how your sense of right and wrong can get bargained away when it's more important to create identity politics and alliances to "win"....

WTF are you even babbling about here? Where are these "genital mutators" in Congress then, and how are they remotely related to the post I quoted here?

The OP posted some of his BULLSHIT and I cleaned it up. You're welcome. And I did that because the lying-ass PUNK doesn't have the balls to clean up after himself.

Where are the feminists joining forces with people who support tossing gays off roofs and mutilating pre-teen girls?? There right there in the Halleluia Chorus Women's Prog Caucus.. You know -- those Choir women dressed in white...

You need to go re-read the trials of Hercules. You've got a LOT of "cleaning up to do" in your own House bud..

Your tribe is cannibalizing their own and the constituencies that they are now pitting against one another. .. Maybe you should take care of THAT business before you go rescuing the rest of with your super hero fantasy....

I honestly have even LESS idea what you're babbling about here. Whatever it is is completely off the topic. I believe I asked you where these mutators are in Congress. Wearing white doesn't make that case at all.

And I have no "tribe"; I am sui generis.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Church was not into conquering lands by war or converting by the sword.

Right. People were. And sometimes, they dominated the church. So , at those times, your distinction was without much actual difference. And they used the religion to steel their efforts . They drew from it. The grand delusion was widespread and wielded to great effect. One would be a fool not to recognize this grand delusion, and the principles and texts they proudly drew from, when discussing the events of that the past (like the Crusades).

But again, don’t throw your 20th century morals at ancient history and stand so righteous.

But I am not, and you implicitly admit our modern morals are superior. I am the first to attribute that to the accomplishments of modern man, the lessons of which people.in the past could not have availed themselves. This only goes to show that our good morality doesn't really rise from religion, it also helps us understand how religion has been reformed and, indeed, stated off .