George Orwell

[francoHFW]

Spooner is interesting to, but a historical figures whose good ideas where incorporated into good politics. NOT the New BS GOP.

Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (French: [pjɛʁ ʒɔzɛf pʁudɔ̃]; 15 January 1809 – 19 January 1865) was a French politician and the founder of mutualist philosophy. He was the first person to declare himself an anarchist[1][2] and is widely regarded as one of the ideology's most influential theorists. Proudhon is even considered by many to be the "father of anarchism".[3] He became a member of the French Parliament after the revolution of 1848, whereafter he referred to himself as a federalist.[4]

 

[francoHFW]

Orwell was an optimist.

Even Orwell could never have envisioned the Obama....

He envisioned Bush and Obama

He would have liked Obama, absolutely not Boooosh. He was a socialist. Fair democratic capitalism.

 

[francoHFW]

The Deep State used 1984 as a guidebook

It's seems so.

Actually, 1984 is a parody and protest of it.

 

[Esmeralda]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

George Orwell was a democrat and a socialist. He would be rolling over, in agony, in his grave knowing you people are thinking he is your hero.

Read DOWN AND OUT IN PARIS AND LONDON If you want to know what his views were. Maybe, from that text, you will gain a clearer understanding of his thinking. It's obvious his articles and essays are way over your head.

 

[Esmeralda]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

That's right: Ignorance is strength, and you people are the ones who are ignorant.The strength of RW ignorance is mind boggling. In your ignorance you have put a buffoon, a fascist, an ignorant bad tempered jackass in position to possibly lead our country---and he will destroy it. So much for masses of ignorant people.

Poor George, being kidnapped by people like you. It's the same thing as the terrorists kidnapping Islam for their own means. You are just as dumb, just as fanatical as terrorists.

 

[owebo]

Glad you do.

I think that our differences lie in the cause and the remedy.

Perhaps yes, but maybe not so much. Maybe the elites have you thinking that you can't live side by side. Perhaps there are more important issues at stake.

Anarcho-Socialists and Anarcho-Capitalists — Friend or Foe?
Simple Liberty - Anarcho-Socialists and Anarcho-Capitalists

If only Americans recognized the tyranny that is our government and the benefits of anarchy.

America's greatest thinkers, and rarely do any school children learn of them.

Josiah Warren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Lysander Spooner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Warren is interesting, but anarchy doesn't work, like communism, because of human nature. Neither does totalitarianism or Reaganism see sig. Only fair capitalism and democracy does, with a state OF COURSE to keep the a-holes in line. History proves it. And your anarchist movement is crap to keep you irrelevant, dupe.

You're fascism is the worst of all.....

 

[Tehon]

Russian communism to be exact, which wasn't really communism but was instead authoritarianism.

Which communism has always been in practice.

It is amazing that you and your kind can't see the numerous similarities of Orwell's totalitarian society and the USA today.

Not sure if this is directed at me but what makes you think I don't see it? I do.

Glad you do.

I think that our differences lie in the cause and the remedy.

Perhaps yes, but maybe not so much. Maybe the elites have you thinking that you can't live side by side. Perhaps there are more important issues at stake.

Anarcho-Socialists and Anarcho-Capitalists — Friend or Foe?
Simple Liberty - Anarcho-Socialists and Anarcho-Capitalists

I find the term "elites" to be quite cliche, however I can see how the "system" is used to create barriers to common understanding. I do believe the limitations of language and the lack of a willingness to understand play a more crucial role in our disagreements.

I greatly appreciate the treatise and thank you very much for presenting it. It has given me much to consider.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The Deep State used 1984 as a guidebook

It's seems so.

Actually, 1984 is a parody and protest of it.

You might want to reread 1984

 

[Onyx]

America's greatest thinkers, and rarely do any school children learn of them

Lysander Spooner, Benjamin Tucker, Edward Abbey, Ted Kaczynski, and Emma Goldman are my favorite American anarchist thinkers.

Good opportunity to plug in some propaganda

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

Imagine counting to google for ten minutes. There is a time limit, dontcha know.

 

[Onyx]

Warren is interesting, but anarchy doesn't work

Historically false.

I suppose there was never a society without a centralized ruler....

because of human nature.

What about it?

Human nature is the very reason why we cannot entrust our lives to rulers.

Only fair capitalism and democracy does, with a state OF COURSE to keep the a-holes in line

The state has created the least fair brand of capitalism.

The system itself exists with the sole purpose of being exploited.

Equitable capitalism, in which each man is awarded based on his labor and achievements, can only come about through purging the state and rejecting corporate robbery.

History proves it. And your anarchist movement is crap to keep you irrelevant, dupe.

On the contrary, your movement is dupe. Objectively evil and intellectually baseless.

 

[Onyx]

Spooner is interesting to, but a historical figures whose good ideas where incorporated into good politics. NOT the New BS GOP.

Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (French: [pjɛʁ ʒɔzɛf pʁudɔ̃]; 15 January 1809 – 19 January 1865) was a French politician and the founder of mutualist philosophy. He was the first person to declare himself an anarchist[1][2] and is widely regarded as one of the ideology's most influential theorists. Proudhon is even considered by many to be the "father of anarchism".[3] He became a member of the French Parliament after the revolution of 1848, whereafter he referred to himself as a federalist.[4]

In other words, he was not an anarchist.

I have been in this community for a long time. I know pretty much all the philosophers, and no anarchist is upholding Pierre-Joseph Proudhon as an ideological figurehead for anarchism.

 

[Onyx]

Poor George, being kidnapped by people like you. It's the same thing as the terrorists kidnapping Islam for their own means. You are just as dumb, just as fanatical as terrorists.

I believe Gipper is a sham anarchist. If anything, he is not very educated on anarchist thought.

Let's give ol' Gipper the benefit of the doubt though. George Orwell was a proponent of anarchism...

 

[gipper]

Poor George, being kidnapped by people like you. It's the same thing as the terrorists kidnapping Islam for their own means. You are just as dumb, just as fanatical as terrorists.

I believe Gipper is a sham anarchist. If anything, he is not very educated on anarchist thought.

Let's give ol' Gipper the benefit of the doubt though. George Orwell was a proponent of anarchism...

Thank you for your kind words.

I will gladly take anarchy over what we have today. You?

IMO the tyranny we have today is promoted and imposed by leftists and statists. Yes?

Can we agree that granting power and authority to a small group of so called elites, over a nation, eventually leads to tyranny?

 

[Onyx]

I will gladly take anarchy over what we have today. You?

IMO the tyranny we have today is promoted and imposed by leftists and statists. Yes?

Can we agree that granting power and authority to a small group of so called elites, over a nation, eventually leads to tyranny?

I believe in destroying the state.

Any educated and exposed individual that does not is a brainwashed moronic tool.

 

[gipper]

I will gladly take anarchy over what we have today. You?

IMO the tyranny we have today is promoted and imposed by leftists and statists. Yes?

Can we agree that granting power and authority to a small group of so called elites, over a nation, eventually leads to tyranny?

I believe in destroying the state.

Any educated and exposed individual that does not is a brainwashed moronic tool.

Then we are in agreement.

You will not find anyone on the Left and most on the Right, who wish to destroy the state. The difference is the Left is in control and they very much love the big unliminted centralized state.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

FDR did give eastern europe back to the communists.

 

[Onyx]

You will not find anyone on the Left and most on the Right, who wish to destroy the state.

Completely false.

Anarchists have come from both the left and right wing since its ideological roots.

The difference is the Left is in control and they very much love the big unliminted centralized state.

You are not defining left wing correctly.

Left wing politics support social egalitarianism and relative economic equality.

 

[Onyx]

If we use the classical definitions of left and right, then all anarchists are left wing.

Classically, the left referred to those that were against establishment, while the right referred to those for establishment. This correlates with the classical definitions of liberalism and conservatism, in which liberalism represented political reform and conservatism represented the status quo.

I cannot use classical definitions due to the institution of the modern left and modern right.

Some people try to distinguish the difference between left and right as being solely related to economics, in which case anarchists can easily be of any economic system, and therefore be affiliated with either left or right wing thought.

 

[MisterBeale]

Warren is interesting, but anarchy doesn't work

Historically false.

I suppose there was never a society without a centralized ruler....

The closest I've found is the federation of the Greek city states, the Mayan City states, tribal authorities, and probably the most successful example, Viking law.

"The Icelandic settlers were opposed to a central state dependent on the authority of a lord or king. Writing in the 11th century, Adam of Bremen said of the Icelanders, "they have no king except the law."

A system of laws was set up whereby people were governed by consensus and where disputes were resolved through negotiation and compromise. That is not to say that violence was not employed. Feuds and violence were permissible and even required in order to maintain one's honor in some instances. But adherence to the law was highly regarded, as observed by Njáll in chapter 70 of Brennu-Njáls saga: "With law our land shall rise, but it will perish with lawlessness."
Hurstwic: Viking-age Laws and Legal Procedures

We can see, even today when they threw out central bankers, their suspicion of authority remains very much alive.


An argument can even be made, that our own constitution would not have been as successful as it has been had it not been partially based on the Iroquois Confederation. The further we drift from that model, the more citizens chafe from the authoritarian central government.