George Orwell

[owebo]

Yes, you clearly stated you're a left wing nut job....

Highlight the part that says "I am left wing."

By the way, anarchism is not a left or right wing ideology. There are economic systems which can exist in an anarchy which are identified as being either left or right, such as syndicalism (left) and capitalism (right)

RIF grasshopper.....

 

[owebo]

Yes, you clearly stated you're a left wing nut job....

Highlight the part that says "I am left wing."

By the way, anarchism is not a left or right wing ideology. There are economic systems which can exist in an anarchy which are identified as being either left or right, such as syndicalism (left) and capitalism (right)

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

 

[Crixus]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

And that's where the world is now. Wonder if Orwell had inside info or if he was psychic? What's really disturbing is that citizens of the world, Americans especially give up free thought and independence with less of a fight then Orwell imagined. I mean, hey, perpetual war and scandals not to mention, a govrenment who collects every word it's citizens say a corrupt govrenment beyond being held legally accountable, if Orwell were alive today he would freak out because he called it and then some.

 

[Onyx]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

 

[gipper]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

And that's where the world is now. Wonder if Orwell had inside info or if he was psychic? What's really disturbing is that citizens of the world, Americans especially give up free thought and independence with less of a fight then Orwell imagined. I mean, hey, perpetual war and scandals not to mention 15 years of war, a govrenment who collects every word it's citizens say a corrupt govrenment beyond being held legally accountable, if Orwell were alive today he would freak out because he called it and then some.

You are most certainly correct about how easily the American people have accepted the ever increasing tyranny of their government and it's perpetual war policies. It is most ironic that the nation founded on individual liberty and limited government, is now anything but.

One would have thought Snowden's revelations would have resulted in major changes, but instead the State continues to grow. I fear the future of the USA and the world, is not pretty. The statist and leftist elites may take us to a very dark place.

 

[owebo]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

Left-right is really quite simple actually....

 

[Onyx]

One would have thought Snowden's revelations would have resulted in major changes, but instead the State continues to grow. I fear the future of the USA and the world, is not pretty. The statist and leftist elites may take us to a very dark place.

States grow in power overtime, no matter what limitations or restrictions you put on them. This is one of the most basic concepts in anarchist thought.

The state, being a machine, is impervious to any human attempts to keep it in check. That is why state libertarianism is unsustainable.

 

[Onyx]

Left-right is really quite simple actually....

View attachment 91110

I have another facebook political spectrum saying the exact opposite.

The source of confusion is because anarchism inherently is neither left or right. It only becomes left or right when you assign adjectives to it.

By the way, your spectrum is as dumb as the one I just posted. Mine defined anarchism as slavery (dumbass) and yours defined anarchism as mob rule (dumbass)

 

[gipper]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

Unfortunately you have a propensity to disagree and denigrate posters, when they agree with you.

Clearly you are very well informed on anarchism, but your debate tactics are to denigrate all, even those who agree with you. This approach does you little benefit.

 

[Crixus]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

And that's where the world is now. Wonder if Orwell had inside info or if he was psychic? What's really disturbing is that citizens of the world, Americans especially give up free thought and independence with less of a fight then Orwell imagined. I mean, hey, perpetual war and scandals not to mention 15 years of war, a govrenment who collects every word it's citizens say a corrupt govrenment beyond being held legally accountable, if Orwell were alive today he would freak out because he called it and then some.

You are most certainly correct about how easily the American people have accepted the ever increasing tyranny of their government and it's perpetual war policies. It is most ironic that the nation founded on individual liberty and limited government, is now anything but.

One would have thought Snowden's revelations would have resulted in major changes, but instead the State continues to grow. I fear the future of the USA and the world, is not pretty. The statist and leftist elites may take us to a very dark place.

In time it's a given, but not without some tough lessons for the ruling class but it will happen. What pains me is how willing Americans are to just roll over and expose their bellies to their masters. Democrat republican it doesn't matter, look how many worship trump and don't even know why! Same for Hillery to, I mean damn!

 

[gipper]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

And that's where the world is now. Wonder if Orwell had inside info or if he was psychic? What's really disturbing is that citizens of the world, Americans especially give up free thought and independence with less of a fight then Orwell imagined. I mean, hey, perpetual war and scandals not to mention 15 years of war, a govrenment who collects every word it's citizens say a corrupt govrenment beyond being held legally accountable, if Orwell were alive today he would freak out because he called it and then some.

You are most certainly correct about how easily the American people have accepted the ever increasing tyranny of their government and it's perpetual war policies. It is most ironic that the nation founded on individual liberty and limited government, is now anything but.

One would have thought Snowden's revelations would have resulted in major changes, but instead the State continues to grow. I fear the future of the USA and the world, is not pretty. The statist and leftist elites may take us to a very dark place.

In time it's a given, but not without some tough lessons for the ruling class but it will happen. What pains me is how willing Americans are to just roll over and expose their ellie to their masters. Democrat republican it doesn't matter, look how many worship trump and don't even know why! Same for Hillery to, I mean damn!

Much of this is the result of a dumbing down of the people. American public schools in many districts teach nothing or worst than nothing. Many inner city schools graduate students who are illiterate. The State loves dumb people so naturally the State is active in making sure there are lots of them.

 

[Onyx]

Clearly you are very well informed on anarchism, but your debate tactics are to denigrate all, even those who agree with you. This approach does you little benefit.

I have not attacked anyone in this thread that has not said something moronic.

Who did I argue with that was agreeing with me? It wasn't MisterBeale , who was spouting uneducated nonsense.

 

[Onyx]

In time it's a given, but not without some tough lessons for the ruling class but it will happen. What pains me is how willing Americans are to just roll over and expose their ellie to their masters. Democrat republican it doesn't matter, look how many worship trump and don't even know why! Same for Hillery to, I mean damn!

We all have our place in the toolbox. Even those that are criticizing others for being tools, are often tools themselves.

I'll hand the mic over to Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[owebo]

Left-right is really quite simple actually....

View attachment 91110

I have another facebook political spectrum saying the exact opposite.

The source of confusion is because anarchism inherently is neither left or right. It only becomes left or right when you assign adjectives to it.

By the way, your spectrum is as dumb as the one I just posted. Mine defined anarchism as slavery (dumbass) and yours defined anarchism as mob rule (dumbass)

What's that cute propaganda based on?

 

[Onyx]

What's that cute propaganda based on?

You first.

That's kind of my whole point.

 

[owebo]

What's that cute propaganda based on?

You first.

That's kind of my whole point.

So you can't....

The chart I posted is not propaganda and explains what it is based on....

 

[MisterBeale]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

Unfortunately you have a propensity to disagree and denigrate posters, when they agree with you.

Clearly you are very well informed on anarchism, but your debate tactics are to denigrate all, even those who agree with you. This approach does you little benefit.

I think it is also a cultural divide.

Onyx is clearly a very well educated and intellectual poster, but my suspicion is, he is either not American, or his roots are not American.

For instance, he insists that Anarchism can only be ONE THING.



I noticed him making the claim that Anarchist MUST be violent to overthrow the machinery of the state.

However, the American brand of individual libertarian/anarchism just doesn't go there. We have a tradition of live and let live, of passive resistance, of bringing enlightenment to the masses, one person at a time. We can imagine a future where the state collapses because of it's own corruption, greed, inefficiency, bloat, etc. (In fact, I know many an American Anarchist that wouldn't mind seeing Hillary win for this very reason, they think she will hasten the demise of the State all that much quicker! )

When Onyx speaks of all the great and notable anarchic philosophers, he leaves off Mr. Spooner.



Lysander was at the First International with all the other European notables; Marx, Bakunin, and Kropotkin.

Spooner advocated what he called Natural Law – or the "Science of Justice" – wherein acts of initiatory coercion against individuals and their property were considered "illegal" but the so-called criminal acts that violated only man-made legislation were not.[2]
Lysander Spooner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Left and Right_3_1_7.pdf?file=1&type=document
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Left and Right_3_1_7.pdf?file=1&type=document
It takes a special sort of mind to recognize that the slaves in the south had a right to a servile insurrection, but the federal government had NO RIGHT to use violence to wage war on the southern states in order to force them to remain in the union.

Spooner was vehemently against slavery, as it was coercive and against natural law. However, he also saw that the central government had no authority to force the citizens of the south to participate in a government that they had no wish to participate in.


Needless to say, he did not have many friends, either in the south or in the north. Even today, many do not see the genius of the man. If we had, we would have a much more free republic where the individual states had their proper power and sovereignty vis-à-vis the federal government. And we would have avoided a terrible, bloody conflict.

But then, we can't expect a violent European Anarchist to understand the voluntarism leanings of American Anarchists. .


I guess he doesn't realize that the greatest hope against the Orwellian NWO are these very same American Anarchists that work day in and day out to raise the consciousness of their fellow man about what is going on. It won't be European or Ukrainian anarchist philosophical underpinnings putting the breaks on and securing liberty for the individual men and women of the planet, it will be the American ones, with their firm grasp of their philosophical forefathers.

Mr. Spooner will have far more to do with that liberty and peace than violent men like Nestor Makhno.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysander_Spooner#cite_note-2

 

[MisterBeale]

As our government and the Oligarchy become more powerful and controlling, Orwell's views and statements become more applicable every day.

This one may be his best..."The consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival."

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

“War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.”

“Big Brother is Watching You.”

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”




“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power.”
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?”


“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power”

And that's where the world is now. Wonder if Orwell had inside info or if he was psychic? What's really disturbing is that citizens of the world, Americans especially give up free thought and independence with less of a fight then Orwell imagined. I mean, hey, perpetual war and scandals not to mention 15 years of war, a govrenment who collects every word it's citizens say a corrupt govrenment beyond being held legally accountable, if Orwell were alive today he would freak out because he called it and then some.

You are most certainly correct about how easily the American people have accepted the ever increasing tyranny of their government and it's perpetual war policies. It is most ironic that the nation founded on individual liberty and limited government, is now anything but.

One would have thought Snowden's revelations would have resulted in major changes, but instead the State continues to grow. I fear the future of the USA and the world, is not pretty. The statist and leftist elites may take us to a very dark place.

In time it's a given, but not without some tough lessons for the ruling class but it will happen. What pains me is how willing Americans are to just roll over and expose their bellies to their masters. Democrat republican it doesn't matter, look how many worship trump and don't even know why! Same for Hillery to, I mean damn!

Nice to find something we can all agree on.

 

[gipper]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

Unfortunately you have a propensity to disagree and denigrate posters, when they agree with you.

Clearly you are very well informed on anarchism, but your debate tactics are to denigrate all, even those who agree with you. This approach does you little benefit.

I think it is also a cultural divide.

Onyx is clearly a very well educated and intellectual poster, but my suspicion is, he is either not American, or his roots are not American.

For instance, he insists that Anarchism can only be ONE THING.



I noticed him making the claim that Anarchist MUST be violent to overthrow the machinery of the state.

However, the American brand of individual libertarian/anarchism just doesn't go there. We have a tradition of live and let live, of passive resistance, of bringing enlightenment to the masses, one person at a time. We can imagine a future where the state collapses because of it's own corruption, greed, inefficiency, bloat, etc. (In fact, I know many an American Anarchist that wouldn't mind seeing Hillary win for this very reason, they think she will hasten the demise of the State all that much quicker! )

When Onyx speaks of all the great and notable anarchic philosophers, he leaves off Mr. Spooner.



Lysander was at the First International with all the other European notables; Marx, Bakunin, and Kropotkin.

Spooner advocated what he called Natural Law – or the "Science of Justice" – wherein acts of initiatory coercion against individuals and their property were considered "illegal" but the so-called criminal acts that violated only man-made legislation were not.[2]
Lysander Spooner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://mises.org/system/tdf/Left and Right_3_1_7.pdf?file=1&type=document
It takes a special sort of mind to recognize that the slaves in the south had a right to a servile insurrection, but the federal government had NO RIGHT to use violence to wage war on the southern states in order to force them to remain in the union.

Spooner was vehemently against slavery, as it was coercive and against natural law. However, he also saw that the central government had no authority to force the citizens of the south to participate in a government that they had no wish to participate in.


Needless to say, he did not have many friends, either in the south or in the north. Even today, many do not see the genius of the man. If we had, we would have a much more free republic where the individual states had their proper power and sovereignty vis-à-vis the federal government. And we would have avoided a terrible, bloody conflict.

But then, we can't expect a violent European Anarchist to understand the voluntarism leanings of American Anarchists. .


I guess he doesn't realize that the greatest hope against the Orwellian NWO are these very same American Anarchists that work day in and day out to raise the consciousness of their fellow man about what is going on. It won't be European or Ukrainian anarchist philosophical underpinnings putting the breaks on and securing liberty for the individual men and women of the planet, it will be the American ones, with their firm grasp of their philosophical forefathers.

Mr. Spooner will have far more to do with that liberty and peace than violent men like Nestor Makhno.

Fantastic post. Thank you.

 

[JumpingPete]

Anarchy is an ultimate far right wing ideology.....

It depends on how you are defining left and right wing. Is an anarcho-communist right wing?

I'll let you decide, because I am sick of trying to distinguish the difference between left and right wing. They are trap words if anything, and semantics are dangerous to any ideology. Both words should be ridden from existence, ideally.

Left-right is really quite simple actually....

View attachment 91110

What total crap, that you swallow.

Hitler, a fascist so left he banned Communism and attacked liberals. You people are fucking stupid.