Get rid of Social Security now?

[MikeK]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

And if you think allowing a government that is 16 trillion in debt to take your money and toss it in a slush fund isn't risky then you sir are suffering senile dementia.

One thing I've learned about brainwashed Libertarians is they are not receptive to logic or reason. Their minds are made up and no opposing facts will get in the way of what they believe, regardless of how well supported those facts are.

But for the benefit of those who might be swayed by your tenacious misinformation I offer the following items of evidence, each of which takes only a minute of light reading to affirm the vacuous nature of your argument.


Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

http://www.milliman.com/expertise/e.../pdfs/2009-pension-funding-study-03-01-09.pdf

Pension fund losses this year wipe out gains from as far back as 2005 (Irish Times) - News - Pibasure.ie

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

 

[regent]

The problem with playing the market before SS, for one's old age was that people lost the whole thing even their bank savings. But this is a new era and I think playing the market with SS funds would be fun. Of course I would expect the government to pick up any losses incurred and fork over what I would have been paid had I not played the market. Is that the Republican plan?

 

[MikeK]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

Those "fucking idiots" (millions of them) were invested in portfolios and funds which were managed by knowledgeable, experienced, and highly reputable experts and had for many years performed well. But I'm sure you consider yourself more capable and competent than all those experts combined and you would have seen the crash coming and averted it. Right?

What you are suggesting at the very least is anyone who chooses private investments over Social Security must necessarily be at least as astute as you and more proficient at playing the Market than were the experts who were wiped out in 2008. Right?

In addition to the current economic situation I'll bet you don't believe anyone was wiped out in the 1929 Market crash, either. Do you? But if you do believe it I'm sure you'll suggest that you could have offered advice to avert that disaster, too. Right?

What I suggest you do is visit your local Wal-Mart and MacDonald's and offer your services as a financial planner to any of the seniors you see working behind the registers there, because most if not all of them are victims of the private investment industry which you and others like you are promoting on behalf of those who have brainwashed you. They have lost their retirement savings and are barely getting by on their minimum wage jobs and their Social Security supplements -- without which they would be dining on cat food and living in their cars or in tents.

And that is no exaggeration!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

And if you think allowing a government that is 16 trillion in debt to take your money and toss it in a slush fund isn't risky then you sir are suffering senile dementia.

One thing I've learned about brainwashed Libertarians is they are not receptive to logic or reason. Their minds are made up and no opposing facts will get in the way of what they believe, regardless of how well supported those facts are.

But for the benefit of those who might be swayed by your tenacious misinformation I offer the following items of evidence, each of which takes only a minute of light reading to affirm the vacuous nature of your argument.


Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

http://www.milliman.com/expertise/e.../pdfs/2009-pension-funding-study-03-01-09.pdf

Pension fund losses this year wipe out gains from as far back as 2005 (Irish Times) - News - Pibasure.ie

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Yeah stock market "news" from 4 years ago now that's relevant.

All of my funds took a hit and you know what I did?

I bought even more because everything was on sale and now just a few years later I'm tickled pink with the results.

And you accuse others of disregarding facts but you disregard the success of long term investing with sound strategies and the results it has garnered.

You who admit to not doing the math just believe that giving the fucking government your 15% of your money is a good plan.

All I want is control over what I earn. I'll accept the risks because I am 100% positive I can do 3 or 4 times better than the government can with my money. If you're afraid then you can buy savings bonds but just because you're a fearful sheep does not give you the right to force others to relinquish their financial futures to the corrupt assholes in DC

And I'll tell you again because your memory obviously isn't too good that I do not subscribe to any pigeon hole paradigm group think political party.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

Those "fucking idiots" (millions of them) were invested in portfolios and funds which were managed by knowledgeable, experienced, and highly reputable experts and had for many years performed well. But I'm sure you consider yourself more capable and competent than all those experts combined and you would have seen the crash coming and averted it. Right?

anyone who left a retiree in a stock heavy position is not very knowledgeable.

What you are suggesting at the very least is anyone who chooses private investments over Social Security must necessarily be at least as astute as you and more proficient at playing the Market than were the experts who were wiped out in 2008. Right?

I don't "play the market" I buy a diverse selection of stocks, mutual funds and ETFs and I hold on to them. I re balance the portfolio once a quarter so my desired mix is maintained.

Anyone can do it all it takes is a little time to educate yourself on the basics of handling money.

It's not difficult

In addition to the current economic situation I'll bet you don't believe anyone was wiped out in the 1929 Market crash, either. Do you? But if you do believe it I'm sure you'll suggest that you could have offered advice to avert that disaster, too. Right?

You're never wiped out unless you sell at a loss. Stocks can lose value but they almost always gain it back. So if I have to put off retirement to ride out a bear market I will. That's life as they say

What I suggest you do is visit your local Wal-Mart and MacDonald's and offer your services as a financial planner to any of the seniors you see working behind the registers there, because most if not all of them are victims of the private investment industry which you and others like you are promoting on behalf of those who have brainwashed you. They have lost their retirement savings and are barely getting by on their minimum wage jobs and their Social Security supplements -- without which they would be dining on cat food and living in their cars or in tents.

And that is no exaggeration!

It's too late for them as it is for you. You spent your whole life forking over 15% of your pay to the government for the guarantee of living on pittance.

We'll have to bight the bullet and keep paying the generation of government dependents of which you are a part until we can phase out the SS slush fund scam and let people own their own retirement accounts

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

Those "fucking idiots" (millions of them) were invested in portfolios and funds which were managed by knowledgeable, experienced, and highly reputable experts and had for many years performed well. But I'm sure you consider yourself more capable and competent than all those experts combined and you would have seen the crash coming and averted it. Right?

What you are suggesting at the very least is anyone who chooses private investments over Social Security must necessarily be at least as astute as you and more proficient at playing the Market than were the experts who were wiped out in 2008. Right?

In addition to the current economic situation I'll bet you don't believe anyone was wiped out in the 1929 Market crash, either. Do you? But if you do believe it I'm sure you'll suggest that you could have offered advice to avert that disaster, too. Right?

What I suggest you do is visit your local Wal-Mart and MacDonald's and offer your services as a financial planner to any of the seniors you see working behind the registers there, because most if not all of them are victims of the private investment industry which you and others like you are promoting on behalf of those who have brainwashed you. They have lost their retirement savings and are barely getting by on their minimum wage jobs and their Social Security supplements -- without which they would be dining on cat food and living in their cars or in tents.

And that is no exaggeration!

That's the same thing as bringing your car to a shitty mechanic because one was too lazy to shop around for a good one.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Unbelievable. Poor has nothing to do with it. Besides, those who had low earnings throughout their work careers would not be helped by SS anyway. Sheesh.

Yeah - poverty has nothing to do with an individual's ability to save sufficient funds for retirement. You didn't do to well in math, did you?

Is there an echo in here?

 

[Jarlaxle]

? I haven't seen Romney or any prominent Republicans talking about ending Social Security.

Medicare is what they want to destroy.

Get rid of SS and people will be able to have enough saved for retirement that they won't need medicare.

You fuking kidding right? Most Americans have the financial acumen of..............you.

They buy when the market is up and sell when it is the worst possible time to sell.

And somehow you think that all of us Americans will all of a sudden be like.......Mitt?
Funny shit.

You being a mental midget is none of my concern!

 

[boedicca]

The Republicans will not be content until they rid the nation of Social Security. This battle could go on for years, and for years the aged will live in fear.
Would it be in the best interests of America to elect Republicans in the next election. The Republicans will drop the Social Security and other social programs. Once the loss of Social Security is felt Americans will then rid the nation of Republicans. It might take years for the entire cleansing but the new Social Security program might then be secure for a long time to come.

Quit sniffing glue.

SRSLY

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yeah. All insurance is based on tables like that. They win on the average results of all their clients.

What's your point?

That annuities make more for the insurance coma0ny than they do for their clients so therefore they are a sucker's bet.

When an individual client exceeds life expectancy by more than a little bit he'll make more off the annuity than he put in. But it doesn't cost the insurance company really because its paid for by the clients who didn't make life expectancy and put more in than they got out.

That's kinda the point of the bet. You transfer the risk that you'll live very long and need income far into old age to the insurance company. In exchange, they take a little profit, and if you don't make life expectancy, they keep the difference.

Social Security works the same way. Its not a savings account. Its an insurance program.

Actually, no, it's a Ponzi scheme.

 

[boedicca]

Insurance companies are have reserves to cover expected liabilities.

SS just plans to tax people in the future because politicians have spent all of the reserves.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

I suggest you get at least a high-school level understanding of compound interest.

 

[boedicca]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

I suggest you get at least a high-school level understanding of compound interest.

ZIRP rather makes that concept moot these days.

 

[Jarlaxle]

It would not be double because the employer would still contribute.

If we're talking about a voluntary investment program, why would one's employer match each contribution? Maybe a rare and exceptionally benevolent employer might (I think there might be one or two in the U.S. who are so inclined) but the only reason employers match the FICA contribution is Government says they must.

I am in a voluntary investment program. My employer matches it, dollar for dollar up to a cap (that is fairly high, though I do not remember offhand what it is). This is VERY common, called a 401k. Are you actually THIS FUCKING STUPID, dude?!

 

[Skull Pilot]

It would not be double because the employer would still contribute.

If we're talking about a voluntary investment program, why would one's employer match each contribution? Maybe a rare and exceptionally benevolent employer might (I think there might be one or two in the U.S. who are so inclined) but the only reason employers match the FICA contribution is Government says they must.

I am in a voluntary investment program. My employer matches it, dollar for dollar up to a cap (that is fairly high, though I do not remember offhand what it is). This is VERY common, called a 401k. Are you actually THIS FUCKING STUPID, dude?!

What the senile old sheep doesn't understand is that I'm not talking about voluntary savings here.

I am suggesting that we take the same 15% of one's lifetime earnings that currently get dumped into the off the books government slush fund that is social security and let the people own the account into which the money is deposited.

If people are afraid of the stock market they can choose to buy savings bonds or treasury bills.

If you add voluntary savings to that, which you should, then we could very well see the beginnings of real wealth in the hands of more and more people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well those people who were wiped out as you say are like you and didn't bother to learn about investing. Anyone with the bulk of their portfolio in equities in retirement is a fucking idiot.

Those "fucking idiots" (millions of them) were invested in portfolios and funds which were managed by knowledgeable, experienced, and highly reputable experts and had for many years performed well. But I'm sure you consider yourself more capable and competent than all those experts combined and you would have seen the crash coming and averted it. Right?

What you are suggesting at the very least is anyone who chooses private investments over Social Security must necessarily be at least as astute as you and more proficient at playing the Market than were the experts who were wiped out in 2008. Right?

In addition to the current economic situation I'll bet you don't believe anyone was wiped out in the 1929 Market crash, either. Do you? But if you do believe it I'm sure you'll suggest that you could have offered advice to avert that disaster, too. Right?

What I suggest you do is visit your local Wal-Mart and MacDonald's and offer your services as a financial planner to any of the seniors you see working behind the registers there, because most if not all of them are victims of the private investment industry which you and others like you are promoting on behalf of those who have brainwashed you. They have lost their retirement savings and are barely getting by on their minimum wage jobs and their Social Security supplements -- without which they would be dining on cat food and living in their cars or in tents.

And that is no exaggeration!

What you are suggesting at the very least is anyone who chooses private investments over Social Security must necessarily be at least as astute as you and more proficient at playing the Market than were the experts who were wiped out in 2008. Right?

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

 

[Freewill]

SS will kill itself soon enough, or the country one or the other there is no other way for a Ponzi scheme.

 

[MikeK]

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

 

[MikeK]

SS will kill itself soon enough, or the country one or the other there is no other way for a Ponzi scheme.

Read these articles and educate yourself:

No, Governor Perry, Social Security Is Not 'A Ponzi Scheme' - Forbes

A Venn Diagram for Rick Perry: Social Security Is Not a Ponzi Scheme | Mother Jones

Social Security has been performing perfectly for over seventy-five years and every time the economy falters we read and hear this "Ponzi scheme" nonsense. Don't believe what Limbaugh and Hannity are telling you. They are very well paid to mislead you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Anyone who put their Social Security contributions into a diversified portfolio over the last 20, 30 or 40 years would have a much bigger nest egg than Social Security will provide.

No one who remained in the market after the 2008 crisis was wiped out.

Really?

$2 trillion wiped out of retirement funds - USATODAY.com

Scranton's pension fund situation worsened - News - The Times-Tribune

Retirement Savings Lose $2 Trillion in 15 Months

Retirement Savers Lost $2 Trillion in the Stock Market - Planning to Retire (usnews.com)

Your last 2 links are from 2008 so they are entirely irrelevant.

Pensions are not analogous to private savings because pension funds are bound by law to pay out regardless of performance.

In a private account one can take out less in lean years if need be in order to allow the market to recover.

And you seem to keep ignoring the fact that once you are retired you should not have the bulk of your portfolio in stocks.