Gitmo Justice.

[GoneBezerk]

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

They should've been tortured to death years ago once their intel relevance was over.

No military trial, they are not legal combatants or even common criminals.

Idiot.

 

[California Girl]

Theres a lot to be said about that too CG, and in some ways when one thinks of the people responsible for the first WTC who are now locked away someplace, it does seem to hold more weight. It does make you wonder if the Judge just said okay, welcome to Gitmo for life and see if the antics cease. In general if they hold no compassion or respect and as such they are not in the Criminal justice system then accord them the same compassion. Further, use the UCMJ as I frankly have understood little of a debate that has to do with a person you capture on a battlefield overseas. I don't seem to recall very many VC brought here to the US and accorded rights under the US Constitution or civilian defense lawyers for their actions against American forces in Vietnam. I might be wrong however on that score, but seem to recall an awful lot of them ended up at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island after being turned over to the ARVN and generally kept there till the end of the war.

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

 

[California Girl]

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

They should've been tortured to death years ago once their intel relevance was over.

No military trial, they are not legal combatants or even common criminals.

Idiot.

We did not torture anyone. We used enhanced interrogation. Big difference... except it idiotic, overly hysterical left wingers who think dropping water on someone's face is inflicting excessive pain.

You are being overly emotional. That's fine, but it tends to make you look silly. I prefer measured, rational thought.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

I am curious though are prayer breaks allowed during any trial? this is the first time I heard of it, and are you normally allowed to just ignore questions from the judge?

 

[High_Gravity]

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

Idiot.

We did not torture anyone. We used enhanced interrogation. Big difference... except it idiotic, overly hysterical left wingers who think dropping water on someone's face is inflicting excessive pain.

You are being overly emotional. That's fine, but it tends to make you look silly. I prefer measured, rational thought.

Water boarding is childs play compared to the torture the Egyptians, Pakistanis, Jordanians and Syrians use for example on their prisoners.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Dumbfuck, you are giving them POW status which makes them equal to US troops captured on the battlefield.

You make them legitimate by giving them rights. They are not innocent soldiers forced to fight for a country in a war they don't support.

Idiots like you are useful to the terrorists.

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

 

[Katzndogz]

Yep, can't fault your reasoning on that either. These are not ordinary circumstances - I fail to see why we think the US Constitution applies.... that is American arrogance, to me. Frankly, I don't really care whether we try them or not... in fact, there's a lot to be said for not trying them at all.... just 'disappear' their asses. Lock them away and tell the rest of the world to mind their own fucking business.

We cannot afford for our enemies to see us as a weak country that will not defend ourselves and one that will play by the rules. We are America. We make our own fucking rules.

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

Your perspective is in error. It isn't a matter of showing the world that we behave better than they do. It's about power and control. These muslims took a two hour hearing and stretched it to 13 hours. They have manipulated the defense attorney into demanding that all women in the courtroom wear the abeya. They can make the court adjust proceedings to suit them. And, they don't have to do anything at all. They can be as disruptive as possible, mock the proceedings, and disrupt as much as they can. By getting away with it, they have total control over what happens in the courtroom.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I've had the opportunity to see some of the antics of the vile scum at Gitmo in the courtroom. It leads me to believe that given these antics these men who are showing such contempt for this process, why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process. If the defendants are in such contempt of these proceeedings and are rigged as they claim and they wish to use it as a means to further their aims they started 10 years ago, then by all means give them their wish. If the proceedings are as wide open as they seem to be, then the judge should just lean over , ask the defendants one by one at which hour do they wish to meet their maker and make that wish come true in as fast a manner as possible!.

"why bend over backwards in an attempt not to deprive the defendants of any sense of due process.?"

Why? If you have to ask then you are unworthy of calling yourself an American.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Idiot....you don't know shit compared to me.

You only know what you see on the news and on the internet like here.

Just shut the fuck up, idiot.

It is irony of the internet where people like you can act like you know what you're talking about and talk down to someone that knows more than you.

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

Idiot.

We did not torture anyone. We used enhanced interrogation. Big difference... except it idiotic, overly hysterical left wingers who think dropping water on someone's face is inflicting excessive pain.

You are being overly emotional. That's fine, but it tends to make you look silly. I prefer measured, rational thought.

 

[High_Gravity]

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

Your perspective is in error. It isn't a matter of showing the world that we behave better than they do. It's about power and control. These muslims took a two hour hearing and stretched it to 13 hours. They have manipulated the defense attorney into demanding that all women in the courtroom wear the abeya. They can make the court adjust proceedings to suit them. And, they don't have to do anything at all. They can be as disruptive as possible, mock the proceedings, and disrupt as much as they can. By getting away with it, they have total control over what happens in the courtroom.

I have to think if I was an Islamic terrorist and saw my buddies acting the fool at a US trial like this it would make me feel pretty good, especially when I see the Americans accomodating them like this.

 

[WillowTree]

My thoughts...

1. Give them a fair trial.
2. Give them a fair hanging.

Do it all within 90 days.

let's dress them in burkas when we hang them..

 

[High_Gravity]

My thoughts...

1. Give them a fair trial.
2. Give them a fair hanging.

Do it all within 90 days.

let's dress them in burkas when we hang them..

HAHA I like that.

 

[California Girl]

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

I am curious though are prayer breaks allowed during any trial? this is the first time I heard of it, and are you normally allowed to just ignore questions from the judge?

So... as the liberals are so fond of 'separation of Church and state'... use that. Say 'no religion in court'.... try now, pray later.

 

[California Girl]

Idiot....you don't know shit compared to me.

You only know what you see on the news and on the internet like here.

Just shut the fuck up, idiot.

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

We did not torture anyone. We used enhanced interrogation. Big difference... except it idiotic, overly hysterical left wingers who think dropping water on someone's face is inflicting excessive pain.

You are being overly emotional. That's fine, but it tends to make you look silly. I prefer measured, rational thought.

I know far more than what I see on the news and on the net.... which is why I know that we waterboarding isn't 'torture'.

 

[High_Gravity]

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

I am curious though are prayer breaks allowed during any trial? this is the first time I heard of it, and are you normally allowed to just ignore questions from the judge?

So... as the liberals are so fond of 'separation of Church and state'... use that. Say 'no religion in court'.... try now, pray later.

I just wasn't aware people were allowed to disrupt proceedings and behave like this during a trial.

 

[Navy1960]

the attorney said they were doing it as "peaceful protest", so that's correct. and if they persist, the judge will have to find the cojones to impose some type of sanction, i'd think. and while on an emotional level, i certainly see your point. our defense of people's rights has nothing to do with what they did or what we feel about it.

Ahh but there is the thing jillian while I agree that a defendant should be accorded rights, here is my feeling on the subject. If it happens to be under the UCMJ or are limited based on the fact these individuals we captured on the battlefield and as such are not entitled to rights as say a Criminal defendant would be in a courtroom in the United States then I agree. You are correct I highly doubt one party or the other invloved here cares much about our feelings on the matter, and but it is helpful for Americans to voice them none the less. I would like to hear your opinions on the ability of Defense Counsel to Voir Dire the Judge. One would think that a Judge would be very strict with any defendant and their counsel having to suffer through that.

I agree with you that rights are limited under the UCMJ, but I suspect the Judge is concerned with maintaining the legitimacy of his courtroom. He seems to be allowing them enough rope to hang themselves. And he's not allowing them to make a record alleging he has denied them any due process rights they may have.

I've never heard of a defense attorney being allowed to Voir Dire a Judge. I didn't know that had happend. I haven't read the exchange so I can't offer any observations about that.

On September 23, 2008, in the voir dire process, Mohammed questioned the judge on his potential bias at trial. "Glaring and poking an occasional finger in the air," Mohammed told Kohlmann, "The government considers all of us fanatical extremists," and asked, "How can you, as an officer of the U.S. Marine Corps, stand over me in judgment?" Insisting that he was attempting to work out if Kohlmann was a religious extremist, he continued: "[President] Bush said this is a crusader war and Osama bin Laden said this is a holy war against the crusades. If you were part of Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson’s group, then you would not be impartial."

That was in 08, and has not changed from what I understand. Again, and this is my humble opinion here, those captured on the battlefield overseas are accorded the same rights as individuals this nation has accorded in the past such as the V/C were in Vietnam. They are in the proper venue and it does seem the judge needs to exercise a lot more control of these proceedings but makes one wonder how much of the perception issue is playing a part in all this.

 

[Staidhup]

Stuff some pork down their throat and hang em high! It's a hell of a lot more humane then cutting their heads off with a 12 inch blade!

 

[California Girl]

We really need to stop letting them show their ass in the court room though, everytime we stop the proceedings to let them pray and let them sit there, laugh and ignore questions, this is a victory for those guys. If I was on trial in an Islamic country and asked for a break to pray they would hit me in the face with a baton.

Is it a victory for them? Really? I don't think so. I think it shows the rest of the world - and particularly the ME and Islamic countries... that we behave better than them.

Try them, find them guilty, sentence them to LWOP and be done with it.

Then, make it known that... from now on, regardless of who is our President... that America will bomb the fuck out of any country that harbors our enemies. That there will be no more Mr Nice Guy.

Your perspective is in error. It isn't a matter of showing the world that we behave better than they do. It's about power and control. These muslims took a two hour hearing and stretched it to 13 hours. They have manipulated the defense attorney into demanding that all women in the courtroom wear the abeya. They can make the court adjust proceedings to suit them. And, they don't have to do anything at all. They can be as disruptive as possible, mock the proceedings, and disrupt as much as they can. By getting away with it, they have total control over what happens in the courtroom.

My perspective is mine... it's observation based on fact.... it can't be wrong... you can disagree with it. Thinking that 'perspective' equates to 'fact' demonstrates that you have intellectual issues.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I agree with some of the people attending the trial.


"I would have preferred this would have been in federal court," said Blake Allison of Lyme, N.H., whose 49-year-old wife, Anna, was aboard the first plane that hit the first tower. "The public needs to see how in the world you could defend these horrible criminals, and how the prosecutor will be able to prove to the country and the world this is a fair and just system."

Sept. 11 terrorism trial opens at Guantanamo Bay - Los Angeles Times

Our system of justice is about us, not about the Muslim world, the Arab world, or even the defendants. It is about us.

Principles. Anyone who would dare to disagree does a disservice to what America stands for. A basic civics course could be held here, and I suspect many would fail to grasp the most basic and fundamental principles that brought about the experiment known as the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

 

[Vidi]

Ok, you're on the other side now with me.

So please explain how they are equal to being a POW.

FYI....we tortured terrorists under Bush and it is ok. Torturing scum to their death would be better than giving them some show trial for their followers.

You are the fucking idiot.

Idiot.

We did not torture anyone. We used enhanced interrogation. Big difference... except it idiotic, overly hysterical left wingers who think dropping water on someone's face is inflicting excessive pain.

You are being overly emotional. That's fine, but it tends to make you look silly. I prefer measured, rational thought.

Whens the last time you were water boarded? Was it pleasant? Would you want to go through it again?

any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions. --UN Convention Against Torture

http://www.un.org/millennium/law/iv-9.htm

We agreed to the convention. UNTC

therefore using waterboarding, a form of torture, is unlawful.

Now check out the video on the bottom of this page:

HowStuffWorks "What is water boarding?"

and thats not even water boarding. Thats MILD and they couldnt last long at all. They all gave up.





lets look at actual water boarding now.

and this one, conservative talkshow host ManCow gets waterboarded after saying repeatedly that waterboarding IS NOT TORTURE:

water boarding - Bing Videos

and thats for demonstating purposes. In a safe enviorment. where NO ONE is actually trying to get information out of him. Six seconds, it took him to go from its not torture to it IS torture.

Water boarding is TORTURE. Period.