GLOBAL WARMING? NASA says Antarctic has been COOLING for past

[mamooth]

The vostok ice cores only show CO2 levels during an ice age you crazy old woman...you are aware...never mind, I'm sure you aren't aware that cold oceans hold far more CO2 than warm oceans do.

Are you the most brazen queer on the planet, or are you just playing the most brazen queer? In any case, I'll ask you again to stop hitting on me.

Sorry hairball...when the slide into the ice age began, CO2 levels were greater than they are at present...

No, that's completely wrong, and it's just some bizarre crap you made up.

Sorry hairball...you lose again...I don't expect for you to be able to read this graph...

Your graph is weird fiction from a kook denier blog. And that's all you have now, your various attempts at fraud.

Let's look at the real climate. 3.6 million years ago, prior to the last ice age, Pliocene CO2 levels were around 400 ppm. That's the same at today. And the arctic climate was really freakin' warm, about 8C warmer than today. That is, the CO2 made things quite toasty up there.

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

And then? CO2 dropped. Ice age followed. Global warming theory confirmed.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

In the first place, manmade warming has not been proven

Nothing in the natural sciences has ever been proven and you're a science moron to suggest such a thing. Overwhelming evidence, however, DOES indicate that human activity has been the primary cause of the warming experienced over the last 150 years. You're a science imbecile to reject it.

temperatures going up suggests that the earth is exiting an ice age

Temperatures going up suggest Atlas has built a fire under us. They suggest that the sun is about to go nova. They suggest a leakage of Harry Potter magic. They suggest that the air has become more transparent to the sun's radiation. They suggest that all the fires we've built and the fuel we've burned has simply warmed us all up. They suggest that one of our gods is real, is pissed and is going to slowly roast us to death.

You go on about good science and then tell us what the observations "suggest", without bothering to find one fucking drop of actual evidence to support your hypothesis over all the rest.

and the long term trend will be up with occasional drops till the temperatures reach earth's normal temperature of about 22C...that is about 7 degrees warmer than the present. Earth history tells us that for most of history, it has been so warm that no ice at all existed at at least one pole and usually both.

You keep piling on the stupid. For the entirety of human existence, both poles have had ice.

Considering that the normal temperature is so warm that there is no ice at the poles, what does that suggest to you regarding man's ability to do anything whatsoever about warming?

Considering that the poles have NEVER been ice free during human existence, what does that tell you about the wisdom of allowing it to happen in the geological wink of an eye because we're too stupid, too cowardly and too greedy to stop burning fossil fuels?

It has no effect on the temperature anywhere. Are you aware that the ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 levels higher than the present...and in fact ice ages have began with CO2 levels in excess of 1000, and even in excess of 4000ppm?

Mamooth has already revealed your unending ignorance with regard to this comment.

On the oceans, we're killing the oceans first. Great. So temperatures are neither here nor there, the oceans will be dead soon anyway.

Really? Are you aware that most of the life present in the oceans today evolved at a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were closer to 4000ppm. We are killing the oceans with pollution...not CO2.

I know you've been told the following on multiple occasions but rejected it without comment as it conflicted with your climate fantasy: The CO2 levels in the ocean are increasing at a rate THOUSANDS of times faster than they have typically done throughout Earth's history. On past occasions when ocean pH changed as quickly as we are changing it (the PT boundary event), massive die-offs took place. CaCO3 erosion can't buffer the change as it normally would.

To bad we can't deal with real problems like pollution because the AGW hoax sucks all the air out of the room and all the treasure out of the coffers.

What pollution have we been unable to deal with from a lack of funds? Last time I checked, government generally deals with pollution by instituting new industrial and environmental regulations. Industry gets to pay the price, which they'll certainly pass to the consumer. But somewhere I missed where the state of the government's coffers has prevented the creation of new regulation.

"They suggest that the air has become more transparent to the sun's radiation." -- Crick

CO2 makes the atmosphere "more transparent to the sun's radiation."?

So Venus has a totally transparent atmosphere

Wow. The stuff you learn from the AGWCult

Jesus, Frank, your stupid knows no bound.

"They suggest that the air has become more transparent to the sun's radiation." -- Crick

CO2 makes the atmosphere "more transparent to the sun's radiation."?

So Venus has a totally transparent atmosphere

Crick, did someone hack your account to make you sound like a moron? You should alert the Mods

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama knows it's BS too. He's ordering more ice breakers.

Obama Sees Need for More US Icebreakers: Former Coast Guard Commandant | Military.com

LOL!!! OMFG!!!!

LOLOL!!!!

That's hilarious!!!

 

[Crick]

The vostok ice cores only show CO2 levels during an ice age you crazy old woman...you are aware...never mind, I'm sure you aren't aware that cold oceans hold far more CO2 than warm oceans do.

Vostok cores only show CO2 levels during an ice age? Really? What the fuck is this?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not only that it's besides the point.

If there is NATURAL cooling alongside MAN MADE warming, and temperatures are still going up, what does this suggest to you?

In the first place, manmade warming has not been proven...temperatures going up suggests that the earth is exiting an ice age and the long term trend will be up with occasional drops till the temperatures reach earth's normal temperature of about 22C...that is about 7 degrees warmer than the present. Earth history tells us that for most of history, it has been so warm that no ice at all existed at at least one pole and usually both.

Considering that the normal temperature is so warm that there is no ice at the poles, what does that suggest to you regarding man's ability to do anything whatsoever about warming?

Oh, and you know all this CO2 we're pumping into the air, do you know which place it has the biggest impact on?

It has no effect on the temperature anywhere. Are you aware that the ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 levels higher than the present...and in fact ice ages have began with CO2 levels in excess of 1000, and even in excess of 4000ppm?

On the oceans, we're killing the oceans first. Great. So temperatures are neither here nor there, the oceans will be dead soon anyway.

Really? Are you aware that most of the life present in the oceans today evolved at a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were closer to 4000ppm. We are killing the oceans with pollution...not CO2. To bad we can't deal with real problems like pollution because the AGW hoax sucks all the air out of the room and all the treasure out of the coffers.

No, man made global warming hasn't been proven. Nor has whether we actually exist or not. So.... what? You need 100% proof of something before you'll accept it? Seeing as you can't prove that we even exist (or the Earth for that matter), how are you going to prove that something that may or may not exist?

However, if we accept that we exist without total proof that we actually exist, then maybe many other things we'll have to accept exist without 100% proof that it is true.

Temperatures going up suggests nothing of the kind. It might suggest this to you.

Based on what we believe the temperatures of the last 400,000 years, which appear to have entered a far more table climate, which in turn has allowed humanity to develop to a stage no other animals have ever made, we see that there have been these rather large increases in temperature that take place every 100,000 years, more or less.

What they suggest is that temperatures have gone slightly higher, for a short period of time, than what we're experiencing right now. There's a big rise, then it hits the top for short period, then drops down dramatically again.

What we're seeing in this, the 4th such occasion, is that temperatures aren't going down, they're staying at a point, fluctuating more or less. We can therefore surmise that we should, in theory, be going into a cooling period.

From what we believe man made global warming, based on the amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that we're pumping into the atmosphere and is staying there, is that temperatures should be rising. What I believe is happening naturally is that temperatures are dropping. Hence why they're staying at about the same point.

The question is, what is going to happen in the future?
We know that the PH levels of the Oceans are changing dramatically, and that the oceans are at threat, the oceans take up a lot of the slack for the CO2 in the atmosphere. What happens when the oceans die and no longer bother to take up this CO2?

Will the CO2 in the atmosphere make the greenhouse effect so much worse that the temperatures rise to a level that cause massive problems on the Earth? It's possible.

The Earth has been hotter

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

They say it was about 60 degrees in the summer. Are humans going to be able to cope with 60 degree weather, I don't think so, 40 more or less kills us.

You make a claim of the poles having been ice free. It's not easy to search for this as many other things get in the way, similar meanings of words, but what I did find suggests the NO, in the past 400,000 years the poles have not been ice free.

When was the last time the Arctic was ice-free? - Democratic Underground

http://atoc.colorado.edu/~dcn/reprints/Overpeck_etal_EOS2005.pdf

"There is no paleoclimatic evidence for a seasonally ice free Arctic during the last 800 millennia."

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic's tropical past uncovered

"Fifty-five million years ago the North Pole was an ice-free zone with tropical temperatures, according to research."

As for your statement about ice ages with CO2 levels higher than 1000 doesn't necessarily mean much. There are plenty of other factors which might not be at play right now. The impact of CO2 on the current, stable system is the problem here. What may happen, that we might not be able to control, the unknown, is the problem here.

You've made another claim about the air being 4000ppm and ocean live evolving then. I'd like to see your evidence.

 

[SSDD]

Why don't you mark the rise of homo sapiens and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution on this graph

You can't approximate that yourself? Geez...I thought that pretty much anyone...even you could glean some information from a graph this simple...guess I was wrong.

See the far right side of the graph...where the temperature is really low...compared to the much warmer average temperature of the earth?....Mankind appears as that cold period is coming to an end and the warmer it gets, the more mankind, and all the rest of life on earth will flourish.....just as it did in the past.

 

[SSDD]

Better get your quotes straight. Those are not my words.

My apologies...unfortunately I can't edit it as to much time has passed.

 

[SSDD]

Are you the most brazen queer on the planet, or are you just playing the most brazen queer? In any case, I'll ask you again to stop hitting on me.

Sorry hairball....old dried up bitter women are not my type...but feel free to provide a post of me hitting on you to prove that you are not a bald faced liar.

No, that's completely wrong, and it's just some bizarre crap you made up.

I see that you can't read a graph any better than crick...no surprise there. Alas, it isn't made up and the ice age the earth is presently exiting did in fact begin with CO2 levels higher than the present.

Your graph is weird fiction from a kook denier blog. And that's all you have now, your various attempts at fraud.

Again...sorry, you are wrong. But hey, you are always wrong so what else is new.

look at the real climate. 3.6 million years ago, prior to the last ice age, Pliocene CO2 levels were around 400 ppm. That's the same at today. And the arctic climate was really freakin' warm, about 8C warmer than today. That is, the CO2 made things quite toasty up there.

Sorry hairball....but you couldn't possibly be more wrong...well, you could, but I think you are too damned lazy to put the effort in. Here is a look at earth's temperature history from some more sources...as you can see..3.6 million years ago was not the beginning of the present ice age...the decent into the present ice age began much further back in history than that.

Here is another copy of the graph I already provided with the source...as you can see, it isn't made up from some warmer site as you claimed....It is, to the contrary, peer reviewed and published.....little of what you claim is accurate...ever notice that?

As you can see the decent into the present ice age began in the oligocene...more than 25 million years ago...by 3.5 million years ago...the freezing was well under way and continues till today...

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

Which, as you can see (I assume) from the graphs above is well after the time the slide into the present ice age began....just as I said. As you can (or maybe can't) see. the earth is still quite cold when compared to its normal...having looked at the long historical picture, is there any reason you think the temperatures won't continue to climb till such time as they reach the level they were back during the Oligocene?

And then? CO2 dropped. Ice age followed. Global warming theory confirmed.

In typical fashion, you get it ass backwards...temperatures decline...cold water takes up more CO2 than warm water. How much colder do you think the oceans were in the Pliocene than they were in the Oligocene when the temperatures began to decline? The temperature decline proceeded the drop in CO2 by a good long time hairball...interesting that you didn't know that...that's what happens when you restrict yourself to lying sites like SS.

 

[SSDD]

The vostok ice cores only show CO2 levels during an ice age you crazy old woman...you are aware...never mind, I'm sure you aren't aware that cold oceans hold far more CO2 than warm oceans do.

Vostok cores only show CO2 levels during an ice age? Really? What the fuck is this?

Newsflash crick...that whole period is during an ice age....when the ice is gone, the ice age is over.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not only that it's besides the point.

If there is NATURAL cooling alongside MAN MADE warming, and temperatures are still going up, what does this suggest to you?

In the first place, manmade warming has not been proven...temperatures going up suggests that the earth is exiting an ice age and the long term trend will be up with occasional drops till the temperatures reach earth's normal temperature of about 22C...that is about 7 degrees warmer than the present. Earth history tells us that for most of history, it has been so warm that no ice at all existed at at least one pole and usually both.

Considering that the normal temperature is so warm that there is no ice at the poles, what does that suggest to you regarding man's ability to do anything whatsoever about warming?

Oh, and you know all this CO2 we're pumping into the air, do you know which place it has the biggest impact on?

It has no effect on the temperature anywhere. Are you aware that the ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 levels higher than the present...and in fact ice ages have began with CO2 levels in excess of 1000, and even in excess of 4000ppm?

On the oceans, we're killing the oceans first. Great. So temperatures are neither here nor there, the oceans will be dead soon anyway.

Really? Are you aware that most of the life present in the oceans today evolved at a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were closer to 4000ppm. We are killing the oceans with pollution...not CO2. To bad we can't deal with real problems like pollution because the AGW hoax sucks all the air out of the room and all the treasure out of the coffers.

No, man made global warming hasn't been proven. Nor has whether we actually exist or not. So.... what? You need 100% proof of something before you'll accept it? Seeing as you can't prove that we even exist (or the Earth for that matter), how are you going to prove that something that may or may not exist?

However, if we accept that we exist without total proof that we actually exist, then maybe many other things we'll have to accept exist without 100% proof that it is true.

Temperatures going up suggests nothing of the kind. It might suggest this to you.

Based on what we believe the temperatures of the last 400,000 years, which appear to have entered a far more table climate, which in turn has allowed humanity to develop to a stage no other animals have ever made, we see that there have been these rather large increases in temperature that take place every 100,000 years, more or less.

What they suggest is that temperatures have gone slightly higher, for a short period of time, than what we're experiencing right now. There's a big rise, then it hits the top for short period, then drops down dramatically again.

What we're seeing in this, the 4th such occasion, is that temperatures aren't going down, they're staying at a point, fluctuating more or less. We can therefore surmise that we should, in theory, be going into a cooling period.

From what we believe man made global warming, based on the amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that we're pumping into the atmosphere and is staying there, is that temperatures should be rising. What I believe is happening naturally is that temperatures are dropping. Hence why they're staying at about the same point.

The question is, what is going to happen in the future?
We know that the PH levels of the Oceans are changing dramatically, and that the oceans are at threat, the oceans take up a lot of the slack for the CO2 in the atmosphere. What happens when the oceans die and no longer bother to take up this CO2?

Will the CO2 in the atmosphere make the greenhouse effect so much worse that the temperatures rise to a level that cause massive problems on the Earth? It's possible.

The Earth has been hotter

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

They say it was about 60 degrees in the summer. Are humans going to be able to cope with 60 degree weather, I don't think so, 40 more or less kills us.

You make a claim of the poles having been ice free. It's not easy to search for this as many other things get in the way, similar meanings of words, but what I did find suggests the NO, in the past 400,000 years the poles have not been ice free.

When was the last time the Arctic was ice-free? - Democratic Underground

http://atoc.colorado.edu/~dcn/reprints/Overpeck_etal_EOS2005.pdf

"There is no paleoclimatic evidence for a seasonally ice free Arctic during the last 800 millennia."

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic's tropical past uncovered

"Fifty-five million years ago the North Pole was an ice-free zone with tropical temperatures, according to research."

As for your statement about ice ages with CO2 levels higher than 1000 doesn't necessarily mean much. There are plenty of other factors which might not be at play right now. The impact of CO2 on the current, stable system is the problem here. What may happen, that we might not be able to control, the unknown, is the problem here.

You've made another claim about the air being 4000ppm and ocean live evolving then. I'd like to see your evidence.

Can't even read the charts you post! They all show CO2 LAGGING temperature!

If CO2 worked as your "theory" suggests, you'd see temperatures spiking higher as CO2 rose, but that never happens on the hundreds of thousands of years ON YOUR CHART!

 

[Crick]

Why don't you mark the rise of homo sapiens and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution on this graph

You are an idiot... what is the resolution of this graph? Moron!

No, you are an idiot for failing to see the point I was making.

 

[SSDD]

No, man made global warming hasn't been proven. Nor has whether we actually exist or not. So.... what? You need 100% proof of something before you'll accept it? Seeing as you can't prove that we even exist (or the Earth for that matter), how are you going to prove that something that may or may not exist?

So you admit that man made global warming has not been proven....which by default means that your position is based on belief, not fact. And the fact that you remain unsure as to whether you exist or not is interesting.

However, if we accept that we exist without total proof that we actually exist, then maybe many other things we'll have to accept exist without 100% proof that it is true.

So you believe that an entity that does not exist could wonder about whether it exists or not? Doesn't the fact of its wondering prove its existence? No wonder you have been so easily duped by the AGW hoax.

Temperatures going up suggests nothing of the kind. It might suggest this to you.

You are looking at a very short term history.....the entire span of your graph is during an ice age. Here, have a look at a longer span so that you can get a more accurate feel for history and some context...Your graph barely goes further back than the early Holocene....the earth was already well in the ice age by then and had been for a good long time...as you can see, we are still in an ice age.

Now, looking at that graph, can you tell me that you are surprised that temperatures are climbing?....what do you think happens when a planet is working its way out of an ice age?

Based on what we believe the temperatures of the last 400,000 years, which appear to have entered a far more table climate, which in turn has allowed humanity to develop to a stage no other animals have ever made, we see that there have been these rather large increases in temperature that take place every 100,000 years, more or less.

400,00 years isn't long enough to give you any sort of realistic picture of the earth's temperature history. 400,000 years is only looking back into the present ice age..and not even to the beginning of it. As you can see, the decent into the present ice age began more than 25 million years ago. The earth has been cold for a very long time...what is surprising to you about the fact that we as a species happened along as the earth began exiting an ice age...as you can see, the long term forecast for earth is warming till such time as there is no ice at either of the poles...just as it has been through most of earth's history.

What they suggest is that temperatures have gone slightly higher, for a short period of time, than what we're experiencing right now. There's a big rise, then it hits the top for short period, then drops down dramatically again.

What they suggest is that you haven't looked far enough back in history to have any context. You are only looking back into the present ice age. As you can see from the longer term temperature history, the earth is still quite cold relative to its history and the warming we are experiencing is well well well within the boundaries of natural variability.

Look at the previous deep ice ages. Do you think the exit from them looked appreciably different from the exit that is currently happening?

From what we believe man made global warming, based on the amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that we're pumping into the atmosphere and is staying there, is that temperatures should be rising. What I believe is happening naturally is that temperatures are dropping. Hence why they're staying at about the same point.

Again, refer back to the graph of the longer term history. See in the late Eocene when temperatures started falling....That was where the cooling began that led to the present ice age. The atmospheric CO2 at the time the temperatures started falling were at, or slightly over 1000ppm...quite a bit higher than the present 400. If CO2 were the temperature driver that climate science claims....how do you believe a 30 million year long ice age began with CO2 levels more than double the present level?

The question is, what is going to happen in the future?

Considering the cyclic nature of temperature on earth...look at the long term temperature history and tell me what you think is going to happen. I predict that the warming is going to continue long term with interspersed cold periods till such time as, like every time before, it gets so warm that no ice exists at either pole.

We know that the PH levels of the Oceans are changing dramatically, and that the oceans are at threat, the oceans take up a lot of the slack for the CO2 in the atmosphere. What happens when the oceans die and no longer bother to take up this CO2?

We also know that most of the life in the oceans today evolved at a time when the atmospheric CO2 levels were in excess of 3000ppm...and we know that the oceans were teeming with life when the atmospheric CO2 levels were even higher than that...closer to the 5 or 6000ppm level. Ocean acidification is just another horror story concocted by alarmists....if we burned every bit of carbon on the planet, we would barely make a bit of difference in the ocean's pH. It is your lack of knowledge, and complete lack of skepticism (read critical thinking skills) that makes you susceptible to the fear mongering. Do you know what the opposite of skeptical is?....its gullible.

Will the CO2 in the atmosphere make the greenhouse effect so much worse that the temperatures rise to a level that cause massive problems on the Earth? It's possible.

Again...to answer your question...look back to the past...did high CO2 levels create the havoc that alarmists today claim? What did life on earth look like just before the temperatures started falling into the present ice age? Ever asked yourself that? Well, during the Eocene, palm trees grew as far north as Alaska...Crocodiles lived above the Arctic Circle. The ancestors of horses, rhinos, etc, wandered vast plains. The earliest members of the primate order appeared during this time as well...where might we be now had the ice age not started and put a halt to our progress for 30 million years? In general, life flourished across the entire globe just prior to the beginning of the present ice age. So, what makes you think that it won't flourish again...further, what makes you believe that we can do anything about it?

The Earth has been hotter

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

They say it was about 60 degrees in the summer. Are humans going to be able to cope with 60 degree weather, I don't think so, 40 more or less kills us.

As you can see from the graphs I gave you, life on earth flourishes when it's warm...cold as we are presently experiencing is the killer.

You make a claim of the poles having been ice free. It's not easy to search for this as many other things get in the way, similar meanings of words, but what I did find suggests the NO, in the past 400,000 years the poles have not been ice free.

That's because for the past 400,000 years and longer the earth has been locked in an ice age. Refer back to the graph..how far do you think you would need to go back to reach a time when no ice existed at at least one of the poles?

"There is no paleoclimatic evidence for a seasonally ice free Arctic during the last 800 millennia."

Again, you are still just looking back into the present ice age....look a bit further back....

As for your statement about ice ages with CO2 levels higher than 1000 doesn't necessarily mean much. There are plenty of other factors which might not be at play right now. The impact of CO2 on the current, stable system is the problem here. What may happen, that we might not be able to control, the unknown, is the problem here.[/quote

Of course there were plenty of factors...and there still are.. CO2 is not the boogie man...CO2 is plant food...Ice ages began with CO2 ten times as high as it is today. At present we are just beginning to scratch the surface of what drives the climate here.....to assume that it is CO2 is a political assumption...not one based in science or a serious look at the climate history of earth.

You've made another claim about the air being 4000ppm and ocean live evolving then. I'd like to see your evidence.

Most modern sea life had evolved by the early Cretaceous period...a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were very close to 4000ppm.

 

[Crick]

I hear imitation is the highest form of flattery...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not only that it's besides the point.

If there is NATURAL cooling alongside MAN MADE warming, and temperatures are still going up, what does this suggest to you?

In the first place, manmade warming has not been proven...temperatures going up suggests that the earth is exiting an ice age and the long term trend will be up with occasional drops till the temperatures reach earth's normal temperature of about 22C...that is about 7 degrees warmer than the present. Earth history tells us that for most of history, it has been so warm that no ice at all existed at at least one pole and usually both.

Considering that the normal temperature is so warm that there is no ice at the poles, what does that suggest to you regarding man's ability to do anything whatsoever about warming?

Oh, and you know all this CO2 we're pumping into the air, do you know which place it has the biggest impact on?

It has no effect on the temperature anywhere. Are you aware that the ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 levels higher than the present...and in fact ice ages have began with CO2 levels in excess of 1000, and even in excess of 4000ppm?

On the oceans, we're killing the oceans first. Great. So temperatures are neither here nor there, the oceans will be dead soon anyway.

Really? Are you aware that most of the life present in the oceans today evolved at a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were closer to 4000ppm. We are killing the oceans with pollution...not CO2. To bad we can't deal with real problems like pollution because the AGW hoax sucks all the air out of the room and all the treasure out of the coffers.

No, man made global warming hasn't been proven. Nor has whether we actually exist or not. So.... what? You need 100% proof of something before you'll accept it? Seeing as you can't prove that we even exist (or the Earth for that matter), how are you going to prove that something that may or may not exist?

However, if we accept that we exist without total proof that we actually exist, then maybe many other things we'll have to accept exist without 100% proof that it is true.

Temperatures going up suggests nothing of the kind. It might suggest this to you.

Based on what we believe the temperatures of the last 400,000 years, which appear to have entered a far more table climate, which in turn has allowed humanity to develop to a stage no other animals have ever made, we see that there have been these rather large increases in temperature that take place every 100,000 years, more or less.

What they suggest is that temperatures have gone slightly higher, for a short period of time, than what we're experiencing right now. There's a big rise, then it hits the top for short period, then drops down dramatically again.

What we're seeing in this, the 4th such occasion, is that temperatures aren't going down, they're staying at a point, fluctuating more or less. We can therefore surmise that we should, in theory, be going into a cooling period.

From what we believe man made global warming, based on the amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that we're pumping into the atmosphere and is staying there, is that temperatures should be rising. What I believe is happening naturally is that temperatures are dropping. Hence why they're staying at about the same point.

The question is, what is going to happen in the future?
We know that the PH levels of the Oceans are changing dramatically, and that the oceans are at threat, the oceans take up a lot of the slack for the CO2 in the atmosphere. What happens when the oceans die and no longer bother to take up this CO2?

Will the CO2 in the atmosphere make the greenhouse effect so much worse that the temperatures rise to a level that cause massive problems on the Earth? It's possible.

The Earth has been hotter

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

They say it was about 60 degrees in the summer. Are humans going to be able to cope with 60 degree weather, I don't think so, 40 more or less kills us.

You make a claim of the poles having been ice free. It's not easy to search for this as many other things get in the way, similar meanings of words, but what I did find suggests the NO, in the past 400,000 years the poles have not been ice free.

When was the last time the Arctic was ice-free? - Democratic Underground

http://atoc.colorado.edu/~dcn/reprints/Overpeck_etal_EOS2005.pdf

"There is no paleoclimatic evidence for a seasonally ice free Arctic during the last 800 millennia."

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic's tropical past uncovered

"Fifty-five million years ago the North Pole was an ice-free zone with tropical temperatures, according to research."

As for your statement about ice ages with CO2 levels higher than 1000 doesn't necessarily mean much. There are plenty of other factors which might not be at play right now. The impact of CO2 on the current, stable system is the problem here. What may happen, that we might not be able to control, the unknown, is the problem here.

You've made another claim about the air being 4000ppm and ocean live evolving then. I'd like to see your evidence.

Can't even read the charts you post! They all show CO2 LAGGING temperature!

If CO2 worked as your "theory" suggests, you'd see temperatures spiking higher as CO2 rose, but that never happens on the hundreds of thousands of years ON YOUR CHART!

Making the assumption that CO2 lags temperatures because CO2 goes straight into the air and stays there. CO2 goes mainly into the Oceans first.

How the whole thing works I don't know and I know you don't know either.

This is the problem. I'm not saying that this or that WILL happen, I'm saying the potential problems out there we simply don't understand.

Also, the one chart that has CO2 and temperatures, it's impossible to make a judgement from that chart anyway.

 

[SSDD]

Making the assumption that CO2 lags temperatures because CO2 goes straight into the air and stays there. CO2 goes mainly into the Oceans first.

Of course it goes into the oceans...cool water holds much more CO2 than warm water....temperatures drop....water cools down...CO2 goes into the water....atmospheric CO2 decreases....then temperatures start to climb....oceans start to warm up....oceans start to outgas CO2....atmospheric CO2 increases....that is why CO2 lags temperature...the water has to heat up before the outgassing of CO2 starts.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, man made global warming hasn't been proven. Nor has whether we actually exist or not. So.... what? You need 100% proof of something before you'll accept it? Seeing as you can't prove that we even exist (or the Earth for that matter), how are you going to prove that something that may or may not exist?

So you admit that man made global warming has not been proven....which by default means that your position is based on belief, not fact. And the fact that you remain unsure as to whether you exist or not is interesting.

However, if we accept that we exist without total proof that we actually exist, then maybe many other things we'll have to accept exist without 100% proof that it is true.

So you believe that an entity that does not exist could wonder about whether it exists or not? Doesn't the fact of its wondering prove its existence? No wonder you have been so easily duped by the AGW hoax.

Temperatures going up suggests nothing of the kind. It might suggest this to you.

You are looking at a very short term history.....the entire span of your graph is during an ice age. Here, have a look at a longer span so that you can get a more accurate feel for history and some context...Your graph barely goes further back than the early Holocene....the earth was already well in the ice age by then and had been for a good long time...as you can see, we are still in an ice age.

Now, looking at that graph, can you tell me that you are surprised that temperatures are climbing?....what do you think happens when a planet is working its way out of an ice age?

Based on what we believe the temperatures of the last 400,000 years, which appear to have entered a far more table climate, which in turn has allowed humanity to develop to a stage no other animals have ever made, we see that there have been these rather large increases in temperature that take place every 100,000 years, more or less.

400,00 years isn't long enough to give you any sort of realistic picture of the earth's temperature history. 400,000 years is only looking back into the present ice age..and not even to the beginning of it. As you can see, the decent into the present ice age began more than 25 million years ago. The earth has been cold for a very long time...what is surprising to you about the fact that we as a species happened along as the earth began exiting an ice age...as you can see, the long term forecast for earth is warming till such time as there is no ice at either of the poles...just as it has been through most of earth's history.

What they suggest is that temperatures have gone slightly higher, for a short period of time, than what we're experiencing right now. There's a big rise, then it hits the top for short period, then drops down dramatically again.

What they suggest is that you haven't looked far enough back in history to have any context. You are only looking back into the present ice age. As you can see from the longer term temperature history, the earth is still quite cold relative to its history and the warming we are experiencing is well well well within the boundaries of natural variability.

Look at the previous deep ice ages. Do you think the exit from them looked appreciably different from the exit that is currently happening?

From what we believe man made global warming, based on the amounts of CO2 and other greenhouse gases that we're pumping into the atmosphere and is staying there, is that temperatures should be rising. What I believe is happening naturally is that temperatures are dropping. Hence why they're staying at about the same point.

Again, refer back to the graph of the longer term history. See in the late Eocene when temperatures started falling....That was where the cooling began that led to the present ice age. The atmospheric CO2 at the time the temperatures started falling were at, or slightly over 1000ppm...quite a bit higher than the present 400. If CO2 were the temperature driver that climate science claims....how do you believe a 30 million year long ice age began with CO2 levels more than double the present level?

The question is, what is going to happen in the future?

Considering the cyclic nature of temperature on earth...look at the long term temperature history and tell me what you think is going to happen. I predict that the warming is going to continue long term with interspersed cold periods till such time as, like every time before, it gets so warm that no ice exists at either pole.

We know that the PH levels of the Oceans are changing dramatically, and that the oceans are at threat, the oceans take up a lot of the slack for the CO2 in the atmosphere. What happens when the oceans die and no longer bother to take up this CO2?

We also know that most of the life in the oceans today evolved at a time when the atmospheric CO2 levels were in excess of 3000ppm...and we know that the oceans were teeming with life when the atmospheric CO2 levels were even higher than that...closer to the 5 or 6000ppm level. Ocean acidification is just another horror story concocted by alarmists....if we burned every bit of carbon on the planet, we would barely make a bit of difference in the ocean's pH. It is your lack of knowledge, and complete lack of skepticism (read critical thinking skills) that makes you susceptible to the fear mongering. Do you know what the opposite of skeptical is?....its gullible.

Will the CO2 in the atmosphere make the greenhouse effect so much worse that the temperatures rise to a level that cause massive problems on the Earth? It's possible.

Again...to answer your question...look back to the past...did high CO2 levels create the havoc that alarmists today claim? What did life on earth look like just before the temperatures started falling into the present ice age? Ever asked yourself that? Well, during the Eocene, palm trees grew as far north as Alaska...Crocodiles lived above the Arctic Circle. The ancestors of horses, rhinos, etc, wandered vast plains. The earliest members of the primate order appeared during this time as well...where might we be now had the ice age not started and put a halt to our progress for 30 million years? In general, life flourished across the entire globe just prior to the beginning of the present ice age. So, what makes you think that it won't flourish again...further, what makes you believe that we can do anything about it?

The Earth has been hotter

Ice-Free Arctic in Pliocene, Last Time CO2 Levels above 400 PPM

They say it was about 60 degrees in the summer. Are humans going to be able to cope with 60 degree weather, I don't think so, 40 more or less kills us.

As you can see from the graphs I gave you, life on earth flourishes when it's warm...cold as we are presently experiencing is the killer.

You make a claim of the poles having been ice free. It's not easy to search for this as many other things get in the way, similar meanings of words, but what I did find suggests the NO, in the past 400,000 years the poles have not been ice free.

That's because for the past 400,000 years and longer the earth has been locked in an ice age. Refer back to the graph..how far do you think you would need to go back to reach a time when no ice existed at at least one of the poles?

"There is no paleoclimatic evidence for a seasonally ice free Arctic during the last 800 millennia."

Again, you are still just looking back into the present ice age....look a bit further back....

As for your statement about ice ages with CO2 levels higher than 1000 doesn't necessarily mean much. There are plenty of other factors which might not be at play right now. The impact of CO2 on the current, stable system is the problem here. What may happen, that we might not be able to control, the unknown, is the problem here.[/quote

Of course there were plenty of factors...and there still are.. CO2 is not the boogie man...CO2 is plant food...Ice ages began with CO2 ten times as high as it is today. At present we are just beginning to scratch the surface of what drives the climate here.....to assume that it is CO2 is a political assumption...not one based in science or a serious look at the climate history of earth.

You've made another claim about the air being 4000ppm and ocean live evolving then. I'd like to see your evidence.

Most modern sea life had evolved by the early Cretaceous period...a time when atmospheric CO2 levels were very close to 4000ppm.

Did you read what I wrote. I said NOTHING could be proven.

Is it belief? Not necessarily. It's what you might call an educated guess. Which is the best anyone can hope for in the world. Everything you know might not be true. So.... you're making educated guesses.

Does the wondering prove it exists? No it does not. You dream, if you had a dream which was wondering whether the dream was real or not, does that make what is happening in the dream real? No, it doesn't.

Okay, I'm looking at the short term of history. 400,000 years. For very good reasons. The Earth has settled down, got married had children and living the domestic bliss. Before that it was getting drunk all the time. Now it gets drunk at Christmas and only at Christmas. Before 400,000 years ago things were different and you can't learn about what should be happening now from anything more than 400,000 years old when it comes to climate change.

400,000 years is all there is. You might want more, but there's nothing else.

We worked our way out of a major ice age AGES AGO. We're gone massively up, and now we're in the downwards phase, only, it's not going down.

Life might flourish on the Earth when temperatures rise. This isn't the point. It's not whether LIFE can flourish, it's whether HUMAN LIFE can flourish, and the lives of those animals and plants that we rely on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Making the assumption that CO2 lags temperatures because CO2 goes straight into the air and stays there. CO2 goes mainly into the Oceans first.

Of course it goes into the oceans...cool water holds much more CO2 than warm water....temperatures drop....water cools down...CO2 goes into the water....atmospheric CO2 decreases....then temperatures start to climb....oceans start to warm up....oceans start to outgas CO2....atmospheric CO2 increases....that is why CO2 lags temperature...the water has to heat up before the outgassing of CO2 starts.

And then what happens when things change, when the natural cycle of things is interrupted by something different, like CO2 in the atmosphere that isn't being generated by the natural stuff takes hold?

The answer to this is simple.

WE DON'T KNOW.

 

[SSDD]

Is it belief? Not necessarily. It's what you might call an educated guess. Which is the best anyone can hope for in the world. Everything you know might not be true. So.... you're making educated guesses.

My educated guess goes along with what we have derived from history...your "educated" guess flies in the face of what we know from history...which is more likely to be right?

Does the wondering prove it exists? No it does not. You dream, if you had a dream which was wondering whether the dream was real or not, does that make what is happening in the dream real? No, it doesn't.

Would an entity not need to exist to have a dream?

Okay, I'm looking at the short term of history. 400,000 years. For very good reasons. The Earth has settled down, got married had children and living the domestic bliss. Before that it was getting drunk all the time. Now it gets drunk at Christmas and only at Christmas. Before 400,000 years ago things were different and you can't learn about what should be happening now from anything more than 400,000 years old when it comes to climate change.

Upon what proof do you base that claim? When you consider the time involved....saying that the earth has settled down in the past 400,000 years is like saying that a drunken frat boy has settled down because he is sleeping off last nights bender. You have absolutely no basis upon which to make that claim other than that you wish it were true.

400,000 years is all there is. You might want more, but there's nothing else.

But that isn't all that there is....as evidenced by the peer reviewed published graph I provided you. The alarmists claims only work if you look at the very recent history...as soon as you look at the longer picture, they begin do disintegrate and the only defense is making baseless claims like "the earth has settled down"

We worked our way out of a major ice age AGES AGO. We're gone massively up, and now we're in the downwards phase, only, it's not going down.

Only if you look at the very short picture...again, look at the long picture....the one from which you can get some context and actually get enough information from which to form a position...when you look at the longer picture, you see that the earth is still very cold relative to its "normal" temperature.

Life might flourish on the Earth when temperatures rise. This isn't the point. It's not whether LIFE can flourish, it's whether HUMAN LIFE can flourish, and the lives of those animals and plants that we rely on.

We are the most adaptable species that has ever lived on this rock...what would make you think that we couldn't more easily survive on a warmer world than on a cold world...and what makes you think that plants and animals won't evolve with the changing climate....they always have...what makes this time any different from the past..we know from history that as the world warms...life expands and diversifies.

Further....looking at the long picture...what on earth gives you the idea that first, the changes we are seeing aren't entirely natural...and second, that we can do anything about them?

 

[SSDD]

Making the assumption that CO2 lags temperatures because CO2 goes straight into the air and stays there. CO2 goes mainly into the Oceans first.

Of course it goes into the oceans...cool water holds much more CO2 than warm water....temperatures drop....water cools down...CO2 goes into the water....atmospheric CO2 decreases....then temperatures start to climb....oceans start to warm up....oceans start to outgas CO2....atmospheric CO2 increases....that is why CO2 lags temperature...the water has to heat up before the outgassing of CO2 starts.

And then what happens when things change, when the natural cycle of things is interrupted by something different, like CO2 in the atmosphere that isn't being generated by the natural stuff takes hold?

The answer to this is simple.

WE DON'T KNOW.

We know that CO2 levels in excess of 7000ppm didn't cause a spiraling temperature catastrophe....what is it about 400, or 800, or even 1600ppm that causes you to fret?

 

[SSDD]

It sounds like you just want to be scared...or maybe you just don't like industry and personal wealth and want to see that taken down and don't mind using fake climate alarmism as a means to an end.