God... Is Time.

[Hollie]

But that doesn't change the fact that you observed it falling up to the point it went poof!

You didn't observe it in the present because you can't observe the present.

You are still wrong. Everything you observe happened in the present, so you can observe the present. Saying you can't observe the present IN the present is not the same as saying you can't observe the present, as you do. You need a lesson in basic English.

How do you know? You say everything you observe happened in the present but if you can't observe the present you cannot confirm this.

Answer: FAITH.

When we observe the present, we witness the present. No gawds required.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Belief in God is a matter of personal faith. So is belief in our perceptions of the present.

Pur-rays jeebus.

Witness for me, bossy.

 

[Boss]

Even IF it were accepted that the present could not be directly perceived (though clearly this poster does not see it that way), there is still no act of faith involved. One has no alternative to trusting one's perceptions. It isn't even a thought. Believing in something implies contrast, choice. It isn't a logical use of the term to say, "I have faith that I exist". Merely posing the question proves the case.

Well the present IS perceived, that's not the issue. Perception is not observation and it's important to distinguish the difference. I gave examples of this earlier. Perception may lead us to believe heavy objects fall faster than lighter objects but observation reveals this is not the case and our perception is wrong. Perception might cause us to believe the universe revolves around the Earth... observation reveals our perception is wrong.

We cannot observe the moment of present time due to physics. All we have to go on is our perception (which can be wrong) which is happening after the present has passed. There is no way to confirm our perception matches the actual moment of present. We rely on faith, we have no other option.

I don't understand why you believe faith requires an option of choice. Most people who have faith in something don't believe there is a choice, if they do, they don't have much faith. Choice is what you have when you lack faith.

 

[Boss]

Your perception IS observation.

You lose.

So now we roll back to this one again? I don't have time for this, GT. We've already discussed the difference between perception and observation, back on page 6 or 7. Perception IS NOT observation when it comes to science and scientific evaluation. Now it may be the same on SpongeBob Squrepants or in a Kate Bush song, I wouldn't know. But I can give you endless examples of how perception is certainly NOT scientific observation, which is what we're discussing here.

You are a damn fool.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are srill observing it.

If not, NOTHING is observible because its ALL the past, as youve conceded.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

You are one daft fuck up.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are still observing it.

You cannot observe the present in the past, that's an oxymoron. The present is a point in time, the past is a period of time. They are not the same. You have a perception of the present which you realize in the past. You can't realize it in the present because you must wait for physics to happen. You're a physical being constrained by properties of physics.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

Nothing is observable in the moment of present time. Everything we can observe is already in the past before we can perceive it... physics.

 

[G.T.]

Your perception IS observation.

You lose.

So now we roll back to this one again? I don't have time for this, GT. We've already discussed the difference between perception and observation, back on page 6 or 7. Perception IS NOT observation when it comes to science and scientific evaluation. Now it may be the same on SpongeBob Squrepants or in a Kate Bush song, I wouldn't know. But I can give you endless examples of how perception is certainly NOT scientific observation, which is what we're discussing here.

You are a damn fool.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are srill observing it.

If not, NOTHING is observible because its ALL the past, as youve conceded.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

You are one daft fuck up.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are still observing it.

You cannot observe the present in the past, that's an oxymoron. The present is a point in time, the past is a period of time. They are not the same. You have a perception of the present which you realize in the past. You can't realize it in the present because you must wait for physics to happen. You're a physical being constrained by properties of physics.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

Nothing is observable in the moment of present time. Everything we can observe is already in the past before we can perceive it... physics.

Already in the past =/= unobservable.

You cannot and have not made that case.

 

[edthecynic]

Again, for all you Einstein's in training out there... If you've found a way for Science or Physics to test and measure something that cannot be observed, you have unlocked the scientific formula for proving God. Let church bells ring, glory, glory, hallelujah!

There are many things that are not visible, that we cannot see, but we can still observe them.

Yeah Bossy,you tell 'm, I stutter.

 

[edthecynic]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

 

[Boss]

Your perception IS observation.

You lose.

So now we roll back to this one again? I don't have time for this, GT. We've already discussed the difference between perception and observation, back on page 6 or 7. Perception IS NOT observation when it comes to science and scientific evaluation. Now it may be the same on SpongeBob Squrepants or in a Kate Bush song, I wouldn't know. But I can give you endless examples of how perception is certainly NOT scientific observation, which is what we're discussing here.

You are a damn fool.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are srill observing it.

If not, NOTHING is observible because its ALL the past, as youve conceded.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

You are one daft fuck up.

If you are observing the present but in the past, you are still observing it.

You cannot observe the present in the past, that's an oxymoron. The present is a point in time, the past is a period of time. They are not the same. You have a perception of the present which you realize in the past. You can't realize it in the present because you must wait for physics to happen. You're a physical being constrained by properties of physics.

So in boss world, literally NOTHING is observable.

Nothing is observable in the moment of present time. Everything we can observe is already in the past before we can perceive it... physics.

Already in the past =/= unobservable.

You cannot and have not made that case.

Sorry you don't comprehend. Unobservable means it cannot be observed. If we have a perception happening in the past it is not in the present. The past is not the present. If it is "already in the past" then it can't be in the present. Our ONLY perception can happen in the past, due to physics having to happen first. We cannot observe the present because of physics.

Unless you somehow unlock the secret of time travel and can travel into the future a bit, so as to give you time to have a perception BEFORE the present occurs... then you cannot observe the moment of present time. No one can because it's not physically possible. Physics MUST happen.

 

[Boss]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

 

[Hollie]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

There's no requirement for faith. We observe a moment of present time absent your gawds. There is no reason to accept that your gawds are a requirement for perception of present time or for the existence of contingent reality.

 

[edthecynic]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

 

[G.T.]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Yes, im not even going to continue the convo at this point, i find this guy utterly and unforgivably stupid.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
physics explains the vision of a star as a dynamic consequence of distance, nothing more and has no relevance to cognition or time.

there is no such concept as faith involved in physics but for those as the religious who will combine both to sacrifice truth for their own gratuitous fantasy > bossy.

.

 

[Boss]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

There's no requirement for faith. We observe a moment of present time absent your gawds. There is no reason to accept that your gawds are a requirement for perception of present time or for the existence of contingent reality.

I didn't say anything about Gods. Faith is still essential if you believe present reality is as you perceive it.

 

[G.T.]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

There's no requirement for faith. We observe a moment of present time absent your gawds. There is no reason to accept that your gawds are a requirement for perception of present time or for the existence of contingent reality.

I didn't say anything about Gods. Faith is still essential if you believe present reality is as you perceive it.

No its not.

If i measure the length of my phone with a ruler, i dont need faith that my phone was x-inches - it is a fact. I can observe the present despite being in the near future doing so.

Your argument is bananas levels of fucking stupid.

 

[Boss]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Well Eddy, no I'm really not doing that. YOU want to redefine "the present" to include the immediate past and I won't let you get away with it. You are making a fool out of yourself. The moment of present time cannot be observed due to physics. All we can have is perception which is created after time has passed.

You have not overcome that stark fact of reality which is the basis of the thread OP. Stomping your feet and throwing a fit will not change that. Calling me names and acting like I've not made the argument will not suffice.

 

[G.T.]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Well Eddy, no I'm really not doing that. YOU want to redefine "the present" to include the immediate past and I won't let you get away with it. You are making a fool out of yourself. The moment of present time cannot be observed due to physics. All we can have is perception which is created after time has passed.

You have not overcome that stark fact of reality which is the basis of the thread OP. Stomping your feet and throwing a fit will not change that. Calling me names and acting like I've not made the argument will not suffice.

No, it wont make an argument - but it will point out a reality. You are drip cup levels of asslips stupid.

That is a fact.

 

[Hollie]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

There's no requirement for faith. We observe a moment of present time absent your gawds. There is no reason to accept that your gawds are a requirement for perception of present time or for the existence of contingent reality.

I didn't say anything about Gods. Faith is still essential if you believe present reality is as you perceive it.

You have made many references to a gawd. There is clearly no requirement for religious, or any other faith, to perceive present reality.

You insist on a faith requirement as a means to proselytize for your gawds. Apples and Chimera's, fundie man.

 

[Boss]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Yes, im not even going to continue the convo at this point, i find this guy utterly and unforgivably stupid.

Well I find you utterly and unforgivably stupid as well, but I don't need to post it because that's not my argument. For page after page, it appears you four are in this for points whoring... thanking each others posts and keeping the balloon in the air when you really don't have a counter to the OP argument. I've been really patient and tried to walk you through this, but the thread continues to follow a pattern of... denial, distraction, denigration, denial, proclaim victory, denial, distraction, denigration, denial, proclaim victory. Over and over, page after stinking page... same shit, same 4 posters.

*Yawn

 

[Hollie]

The EFFECTS of gravity is what gravity IS, stupid! We observe it, we measure it, we do calculations with it all the time. It is not something that isn't observable.

We don't observe the present, we can't observe it because of physics. All human observation depends on time happening and if time is happening, you are not in the moment of present time.

Like we observe the effects of gravity, we observe the effects of time moving from present to past. Like it takes no faith to observe the effects of gravity, it takes no faith to observe the effects of time.

Wrong... We observe the effects of time moving from immediate past to a more distant past. We cannot observe the moment of present time. We do have faith that the moment of present time is as we are perceiving it to be, but we cannot verify this because we cannot observe the present moment of time. Faith is essential.

All you are doing is redefining the present as the immediate past, and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Yes, im not even going to continue the convo at this point, i find this guy utterly and unforgivably stupid.

Well I find you utterly and unforgivably stupid as well, but I don't need to post it because that's not my argument. For page after page, it appears you four are in this for points whoring... thanking each others posts and keeping the balloon in the air when you really don't have a counter to the OP argument. I've been really patient and tried to walk you through this, but the thread continues to follow a pattern of... denial, distraction, denigration, denial, proclaim victory, denial, distraction, denigration, denial, proclaim victory. Over and over, page after stinking page... same shit, same 4 posters.

*Yawn

You're stuttering and mumbling, fundie man.

I'm afraid the failure of your proselytising leaves you no option but to endlessly copy and paste your same silly slogans and cliches'.

 

[G.T.]

Well when youre as annoyinly daft and gullible as you are, its hard to avoid ridiculing you for it because you also maintain an arrogance and play fake smart.

Youre philosophically on the level of an infant.

No, they have a clearer mind than you do. Ita worse than than.


The present is proven. The observor cannot observe of the observor is deceased.

If the observor is alive, time relative to the observor continues.

What the observor currently observes, is of no consequence to whether the present is occurring or not.

If theyre alive, theres a proven present, no faith required.

If theyre observing the past - it proves theres a present because all of the past was once the present - and - you are alive

No faith required




If you are smart enough to tie your shoes, you are smart enough to know that theres no faith required in the present.

And there is 100% faith required for god

The two are not apt comparisons.