Goldberg: Could it be that both parties are doomed?

[Foxfyre]

Could it be that both parties are doomed?

I say--a pox on both their houses..


"The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip 'N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public's attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.
The Democratic Party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it's grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amidst a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes and fried chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.
Donna Brazile, the longtime high-ranking Democratic functionary, was made interim chair of the party shortly before the 2016 election in the wake of revelations that the previous chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, seemed to be playing favorites in the primaries, tilting the scales toward Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders. In an excerpt from her forthcoming book, "Hacks," Brazile reports that Wasserman Schultz wasn't simply partial towards Clinton. She was in fact Clinton's vassal."


"Brazile reports that the party was so hollowed out with debt that Hillary Clinton essentially scooped it up in a distress sale. Wasserman Schultz cut a deal with the Clinton campaign in which Clinton would raise millions ostensibly for the party, particularly at the state level. But those funds were sluiced back into the Clinton campaign coffers in Brooklyn, and the campaign extracted de facto control of the party's messaging and hiring. Team Clinton mocked Sanders as a paranoid dotard for claiming that the Democratic primary system was rigged against him. As it happens, his paranoia didn't go far enough.
It seems axiomatic that any party weak enough to be taken over by Hillary Clinton is not in good health."

"But the important point is that dysfunction isn't zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is "we're not Democrats," and the best argument Democrats have is "we're not Republicans." Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the 12th round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.
Everywhere else in America today, disrupters -- Uber, Amazon, etc. -- are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn't have it coming."

They are already crashing. The loyal memberships are falling, The "Big Middle" of Indies and 3rd parties and populist movements are rising.

The last 2 choices for Prez were just UNforgivable and INexcusable. The GOP got hijacked by a meglomaniac power whore. And a Meglomaniac power whore literally bought the DNC at salvage prices.

They are completely corrupt and non-productive. The 2 brand name parties HAVE been in decline for awhile now..

It would help if the semi popular third parties we have now would produce some decent people.
Gary Johnson was a borderline retard and Stein enjoyed defacing private property like a radical.

Do you think Trump would have won if he had run third party?

There is a possibility that he actually would have won though he would be having an even more difficult time with an intractable permanent political class in Washington without at least the label of Republican.

As it is he is neither partisan nor ideologue. He was elected by 60+ million people who either were terrified that Hillary would be elected and complete the destruction of America as we know it and/or who saw him as the only chance we had to break the iron grip of the permanent political class in Washington. He was the only chance offered us to shake up the status quo and actually fix some of what is broken and accomplish things that need to be done. And they didn't CARE that he was sometimes crude, rude, impetuous,or came across at times as petty. That he is politically incorrect was a huge plus.

But because he doesn't 'talk like them', 'act like them', 'think like them' and because he has no respect for a status quo that has kept them powerful, influential, and increasingly personally wealthy, he is hated pretty much equally by both parties.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that Johnson was a far distant second to McMullin.

 

[LaDexter]

Gary Johnson was just not a good candidate

If he was a plant to make sure libertarians didn't get heard during the election, he did a great job...

 

[Lakhota]

Could it be that both parties are doomed?

I say--a pox on both their houses..


"The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip 'N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public's attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.
The Democratic Party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it's grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amidst a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes and fried chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.
Donna Brazile, the longtime high-ranking Democratic functionary, was made interim chair of the party shortly before the 2016 election in the wake of revelations that the previous chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, seemed to be playing favorites in the primaries, tilting the scales toward Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders. In an excerpt from her forthcoming book, "Hacks," Brazile reports that Wasserman Schultz wasn't simply partial towards Clinton. She was in fact Clinton's vassal."


"Brazile reports that the party was so hollowed out with debt that Hillary Clinton essentially scooped it up in a distress sale. Wasserman Schultz cut a deal with the Clinton campaign in which Clinton would raise millions ostensibly for the party, particularly at the state level. But those funds were sluiced back into the Clinton campaign coffers in Brooklyn, and the campaign extracted de facto control of the party's messaging and hiring. Team Clinton mocked Sanders as a paranoid dotard for claiming that the Democratic primary system was rigged against him. As it happens, his paranoia didn't go far enough.
It seems axiomatic that any party weak enough to be taken over by Hillary Clinton is not in good health."

"But the important point is that dysfunction isn't zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is "we're not Democrats," and the best argument Democrats have is "we're not Republicans." Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the 12th round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.
Everywhere else in America today, disrupters -- Uber, Amazon, etc. -- are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn't have it coming."

Funny. Jonah Goldberg is about as credible as Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson or Alex Jones.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Could it be that both parties are doomed?

I say--a pox on both their houses..


"The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip 'N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public's attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.
The Democratic Party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it's grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amidst a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes and fried chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.
Donna Brazile, the longtime high-ranking Democratic functionary, was made interim chair of the party shortly before the 2016 election in the wake of revelations that the previous chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, seemed to be playing favorites in the primaries, tilting the scales toward Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders. In an excerpt from her forthcoming book, "Hacks," Brazile reports that Wasserman Schultz wasn't simply partial towards Clinton. She was in fact Clinton's vassal."


"Brazile reports that the party was so hollowed out with debt that Hillary Clinton essentially scooped it up in a distress sale. Wasserman Schultz cut a deal with the Clinton campaign in which Clinton would raise millions ostensibly for the party, particularly at the state level. But those funds were sluiced back into the Clinton campaign coffers in Brooklyn, and the campaign extracted de facto control of the party's messaging and hiring. Team Clinton mocked Sanders as a paranoid dotard for claiming that the Democratic primary system was rigged against him. As it happens, his paranoia didn't go far enough.
It seems axiomatic that any party weak enough to be taken over by Hillary Clinton is not in good health."

"But the important point is that dysfunction isn't zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is "we're not Democrats," and the best argument Democrats have is "we're not Republicans." Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the 12th round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.
Everywhere else in America today, disrupters -- Uber, Amazon, etc. -- are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn't have it coming."

Funny. Jonah Goldberg is about as credible as Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson or Alex Jones.

I don't know about credibility..I think the word is overused..but the content of the post..made sense..and that's all I judge.

 

[flacaltenn]

That young cat that was in the L debates? I liked him. He was a damn firecracker. Peterson maybe?

Austin Petersen. Yes. He came in second to Gary "Feel The" Johnson.

Not that I give a rat fuck what celebrities think or do, but i have heard that he was endorsed by Clint Eastwood and Kurt Russell.

Austin Peterson is everything Libertarians want. BUT --- he uses Libertarian principles like a spiked club and beats people with it. We need to Austin Peterson to live in Real WorldVille and focus on solving problems that people recognized from the way they've been accustomed to hearing political arguments.

Principles --- like humility are GREAT. And highly undervalued. BUT -- if you can't convert principles to problem solving based on where we're STARTING from -- people will just see as Utopian and can't relate.

With the project I'm doing for the LP -- we can re-make any Austin Peterson into the $6Mill candidate. Just needs bionic implants and a translator unit...

 

[flacaltenn]

You need to be able to GOVERN. Which is why the poor Greens will NEVER get the traction that Bernie did.

 

[flacaltenn]

I would LOVE to see the duopoly crash and burn
Fuck em'

Do you belong to any organizations? Moose, Rotary, Red Hats, etc?

Would you like to hear people calling for your organizations to crash and burn?

There is no mandate to belong to a party. You are free to associate with whomever you please.

Leave my party organization alone.

I would LOVE to see the duopoly crash and burn!

Yes, but be careful you (the collective "you," not you personally) do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. It takes some knowing stuff to ably run this country and put up logical laws and policy. So be careful in the purge that good thoughtful minds are still there to do our bidding.

Name some for me. Because if the Noah Flood occurred tomorrow and I had an Ark, I can only name 3 or 4 people on Capitol Hill I'd take aboard. The manual for running this country AIN'T in Congress. They can barely run their Post Office/Barber Shop..

I watch CSPAN sometimes and hear the words coming straight from the horses' mouths, and I hear them interviewed on issues they have specialized in on their subcommittees, and a good number of them are more knowledgeable than you think. If you or I or TN were somehow magically transported to D.C. and plopped into the chair of a Congresscritter, we would be humbled by what we don't know.
Tearing down is okay if you've got a plan for building something better.

They have no particular expertise in most ANY of the area that they legislate. That's what Aides and Staff is for. The member wears a suit and looks good in front of a camera. It's easy to sound knowledgable when you get 16 minutes total at a Committee hearing on CSPAN. And MOST of what comes out of their mouth is political distraction and what we call at USMB "off-topic". Watching a Committee investigation hearing is about 80% posing and political sparring.

 

[flacaltenn]

You may have found voting for McMullin preferable to the dildo alternative, but, hey, that's you.

Let me guess. You fell for the Ross Perot trick that got Bill Clinton elected, didn't you.


I had no choice. I had to keep Hillary Rotten Clinton out of the White House to keep the U.S. from surrendering its Constitutional sovereignty to European dictators seeking world domination, of which Hillary was a part. It was a sacrifice I had to make. This "World Court" bullshit is for the goddamn crows.

Well there ya go. You HAD a decent alternative in 2 TWO TERM governors of purple states. BUT --- you went with the lemming migration and voting for a "WINNER". Got too much "WINNING" going on. That's why we're discussing a general political collapse here in this thread. And I'm afraid we're on a course similar to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Our MEDIA certainly resembles the media of the Soviet Union right now.

Until voters get the message that LEADERSHIP is not just about gaining and retaining power, we're heading downhill with just the 2 Brand Name parties as choices.

 

[flacaltenn]

The fact is that Johnson was a far distant second to McMullin.

What you talking about screwball? You comparing a ONE STATE campaign to a 50 state ballot drive and campaign?

The LP ticket was polling at 15% in 3 or 4 states before the Repubs finished their primaries. We had damn near 10% in 15 others. THEN the entire thing turned into a circus of shit-talking and freak show that NO ONE could penetrate..

 

[flacaltenn]

You want to hear discussions about Aleppo or pussy grabbing? Your choice.

In the end -- Aleppo mattered no more than Raqqa or any other completely DEMOLISHED Syrian city. And to Libertarians, the question "what would you do about Aleppo"?? --- Isn't even on the radar if you oppose "nation re-design and nation building" as a 1st principle. It's a simple matter of kissing up to Assad and letting him get his country back. If he can. And more importantly taking a leadership role in the GIGANTIC humanitarian crisis that finally spilled over into Europe and the rest of the Western world. THAT'S the answer to "what are you gonna do about Aleppo".

Make CERTAIN that the largest humanitarian crisis of our lifetimes is CONTAINED to the Middle East.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ding ding ding. What do we have for them Johnny?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that Johnson was a far distant second to McMullin.

What you talking about screwball? You comparing a ONE STATE campaign to a 50 state ballot drive and campaign?

The LP ticket was polling at 15% in 3 or 4 states before the Repubs finished their primaries. We had damn near 10% in 15 others. THEN the entire thing turned into a circus of shit-talking and freak show that NO ONE could penetrate..

McMullin was on eleven state ballots, and Johnson was simply a secondary candidate.

I supported him, though, until the stupid "what is Aleppo comment" Give it up.

Just a second-rate politician.

 

[flacaltenn]

The fact is that Johnson was a far distant second to McMullin.

What you talking about screwball? You comparing a ONE STATE campaign to a 50 state ballot drive and campaign?

The LP ticket was polling at 15% in 3 or 4 states before the Repubs finished their primaries. We had damn near 10% in 15 others. THEN the entire thing turned into a circus of shit-talking and freak show that NO ONE could penetrate..

McMullin was on eleven state ballots, and Johnson was simply a secondary candidate.

I supported him, though, until the stupid "what is Aleppo comment" Give it up.

Just a second-rate politician.

You're hallucinating. No other explanation. You're the ONLY McMullin supporter I know.
Here's the truth Jakey. Don't bug me again with your McMullin Mystical campaign.

Johnson/Weld 4.49Million votes = 3.27%
McMullin/? 0.732Million votes = 0.53%

Total vote NOT for Clinton or Trump? Damn near 6%.. NEVER even reported on election night where that missing 6% went. But it was FAR MORE than the margin of victory in MOST states.

 

[Avatar4321]

Libertarians screweed themselves by nominating Johnson and weld. Two establishment Republican governors who couldn't win their own party. Especially in a year where their party was looking for an outsider.

Had they nominated Austin Petersen, the entire dynamic of their campaign would have been different.

1) Evan Mcmullin never would have joined the campaign.

2) they would have had a young outsider who is extremely articulate in why limited government works.

3) they would have had enthusiasm and attracted conservative money and supper early enough to make a huge impact.

Whether any outcome would have changed, I don't know. But it would have been an excellent set up for it.

Instead we got the worse of three evils

 

[EverCurious]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we the people need to get the unequal fees and funding shit off the books.

Can't remember the exact numbers but when I was volunteering for the Veterans Party of America it was like R's and D's only needed to pay $2-3K and everyone else had to pay like $10K - that's ridiculously unfair >.<

 

[Crixus]

Could it be that both parties are doomed?

I say--a pox on both their houses..


"The GOP is running as smoothly as a dry Slip 'N Slide made from sandpaper. That the party is as dysfunctional as the human resources department at the Weinstein Company stems from a host of ideological, political and structural problems that are only compounded by the fact that the president grabs the public's attention like a spider monkey running through a church with a lit stick of dynamite.
The Democratic Party, meanwhile, has gotten drunk on the spectacle. And as with many a drunk, it's grown oblivious to its own decrepitude. Like a bitter lush sitting in his own filth amidst a sea of empty bottles, moldering pizza boxes and fried chicken bones, it shouts at the TV and boasts how it could do better.
Donna Brazile, the longtime high-ranking Democratic functionary, was made interim chair of the party shortly before the 2016 election in the wake of revelations that the previous chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, seemed to be playing favorites in the primaries, tilting the scales toward Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders. In an excerpt from her forthcoming book, "Hacks," Brazile reports that Wasserman Schultz wasn't simply partial towards Clinton. She was in fact Clinton's vassal."


"Brazile reports that the party was so hollowed out with debt that Hillary Clinton essentially scooped it up in a distress sale. Wasserman Schultz cut a deal with the Clinton campaign in which Clinton would raise millions ostensibly for the party, particularly at the state level. But those funds were sluiced back into the Clinton campaign coffers in Brooklyn, and the campaign extracted de facto control of the party's messaging and hiring. Team Clinton mocked Sanders as a paranoid dotard for claiming that the Democratic primary system was rigged against him. As it happens, his paranoia didn't go far enough.
It seems axiomatic that any party weak enough to be taken over by Hillary Clinton is not in good health."

"But the important point is that dysfunction isn't zero-sum. Right now, the best argument Republicans have is "we're not Democrats," and the best argument Democrats have is "we're not Republicans." Like two punch-drunk pugilists leaning on each other in the 12th round, if one falls, the other may well fall too.
Everywhere else in America today, disrupters -- Uber, Amazon, etc. -- are dismantling established institutions. Perhaps both political parties are the next institutions to crumble under creative destruction. Or maybe not. But if it happens, no one can say they didn't have it coming."

Ya.

 

[Mac1958]

Could it be that both parties are doomed?

I think it's possible that a viable third party could save them both, by causing each to return to Planet Earth or risk extinction.

Right now, both parties are an embarrassment. A cartoon.
.

 

[Foxfyre]

That young cat that was in the L debates? I liked him. He was a damn firecracker. Peterson maybe?

Austin Petersen. Yes. He came in second to Gary "Feel The" Johnson.

Not that I give a rat fuck what celebrities think or do, but i have heard that he was endorsed by Clint Eastwood and Kurt Russell.

Austin Peterson is everything Libertarians want. BUT --- he uses Libertarian principles like a spiked club and beats people with it. We need to Austin Peterson to live in Real WorldVille and focus on solving problems that people recognized from the way they've been accustomed to hearing political arguments.

Principles --- like humility are GREAT. And highly undervalued. BUT -- if you can't convert principles to problem solving based on where we're STARTING from -- people will just see as Utopian and can't relate.

With the project I'm doing for the LP -- we can re-make any Austin Peterson into the $6Mill candidate. Just needs bionic implants and a translator unit...

And there you have nailed the problem the Libertarian Party has and why they are unable to gain any traction. Because there is no conscious practical sense of states rights among the Libertarian leadership, it is extremely poorly represented in state and local levels and essentially not at all at the national level.

Why? Because, though it has many commendable points of view to offer, it comes across as authoritarian as any of the most rigid Democrats or Republicans. With no wiggle room for those of us who don't want religious expression to be suppressed in the schools, who love that historic old creche on the Courthouse lawn, who don't want wide open legalization of drugs in their communities, who don't want open borders, etc. the Libertarian (capital L) doctrine is not all that appealing. And the idea that it could be dictated from Washington is somewhat disturbing.

Now if we could convert the Libertarian Party to a more libertarian (small L) point of view that would allow Americans to organize themselves into whatever sorts of societies they wish to have and live as they choose to live, then you would have a strong convert in me.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that Johnson was a far distant second to McMullin.

What you talking about screwball? You comparing a ONE STATE campaign to a 50 state ballot drive and campaign?

The LP ticket was polling at 15% in 3 or 4 states before the Repubs finished their primaries. We had damn near 10% in 15 others. THEN the entire thing turned into a circus of shit-talking and freak show that NO ONE could penetrate..

McMullin was on eleven state ballots, and Johnson was simply a secondary candidate.

I supported him, though, until the stupid "what is Aleppo comment" Give it up.

Just a second-rate politician.

You're hallucinating. No other explanation. You're the ONLY McMullin supporter I know.
Here's the truth Jakey. Don't bug me again with your McMullin Mystical campaign.

Johnson/Weld 4.49Million votes = 3.27%
McMullin/? 0.732Million votes = 0.53%

Total vote NOT for Clinton or Trump? Damn near 6%.. NEVER even reported on election night where that missing 6% went. But it was FAR MORE than the margin of victory in MOST states.

So almost 4.5 million dummies supported Johnson and Weld. Nothing can be said to rehabilitate them.

More than seven hundred thousand true Americans voted for the real conservative: straight fact.