Goldberg: Could it be that both parties are doomed?

[Foxfyre]

Well, by "viable", I'm talking about a party with a realistic chance of winning, in parity with the other two.

Obviously we're a LONG way from that.
.

The closest thing we came to a viable third party was the Ross Perot led Reform Party in 1992. I honestly think had he not gone nuts and wigged out on us, he had the moxie and personal appeal that he could have won that year. As it was, with him running both in 1992 and 1996, Bill Clinton won with substantially less than 50% of the vote in both elections.

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

 

[Mac1958]

The closest thing we came to a viable third party was the Ross Perot led Reform Party in 1992. I honestly think had he not gone nuts and wigged out on us, he had the moxie and personal appeal that he could have won that year. As it was, with him running both in 1992 and 1996, Bill Clinton won with substantially less than 50% of the vote in both elections.

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

Trump was not my first, second, or third choice in the primaries. But once my favorites crashed and burned, Trump was the last one standing that I thought would not be a pawn of the permanent political class. And he has not disappointed.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

I didn't vote for him last time. No idea who ill support next time

 

[flacaltenn]

Well, by "viable", I'm talking about a party with a realistic chance of winning, in parity with the other two.

Obviously we're a LONG way from that.
.

The closest thing we came to a viable third party was the Ross Perot led Reform Party in 1992. I honestly think had he not gone nuts and wigged out on us, he had the moxie and personal appeal that he could have won that year. As it was, with him running both in 1992 and 1996, Bill Clinton won with substantially less than 50% of the vote in both elections.

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

It's amazing how free and open a politician gets when they don't have the Party Central leaning on them for favors or support. The parties right now are the king makers and breakers. They've grown way out of their pants.

 

[flacaltenn]

Yeah, agreed. I was thinking of that campaign when I wrote that.

I'm watching for this rumored independent Kasich/Hickenlooper ticket. I'd be pretty excited by that, as much as by the THOUGHT of it as the ticket itself.
.

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

MAYBE a Mark Cuban/Bill Weld ticket. Both are leaning Independent/libertarian. Cuban has the personality/vision and Weld has the experience.

Have to see how agile Cuban is with real alternative solutions and political dealing.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Just throwing it out there..will Jeff Flake challenge Trump..in 2020?

 

[Foxfyre]

But Kasich couldn't even get 50% of the vote in the Ohio primary. What was it, 47%? And he wasn't even a contender in any other state finishing mostly in single digits everywhere. He is likable and he was one of my very favorites all during the Clinton administration where he was one of the chief engineers that led to welfare reform and the closest thing we have seen to a balanced budget since WWII.

He was on the ballot in New Mexico but I couldn't bring myself to vote for him because I just didn't see him as strong enough or having the vision I wanted in a President. I don't know whether shedding the GOP brand would help or hurt him. If I had to make odds on it though, I would say it would hurt him.

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

MAYBE a Mark Cuban/Bill Weld ticket. Both are leaning Independent/libertarian. Cuban has the personality/vision and Weld has the experience.

Have to see how agile Cuban is with real alternative solutions and political dealing.

Mark Cuban is definitely likable. And, like Trump, he seems to be pretty non ideological, non partisan, and non rigid in his political point of view. He supports more government intervention than I think most Libertarians (big L) would be comfortable with, much less than most Democrats would be comfortable with, but he rejects the Republicans as "too rigid" to accept anybody who varies from the status quo. Unlike Trump I don't see that he has a clear goals and objectives or a clear vision of what problems being fixed would look like or what makes America strong and prosperous.

He might have a tougher time than Trump dealing with the permanent political class in Washington. President Trump is the quintessential deal maker looking for win win solutions that work. Evenso he is hated in both parties because he is trying hard to shake up the status quo that is great for big government and not so great for the average American. And Mark Cuban probably would try to do that too but he is a self described loner when it comes to decision making. He admits he makes up his mind and orders it done. So as an Independent he could likely get more grief or at least even less cooperation from Congress and the professional bureaucrats

 

[flacaltenn]

From the perspective of a regular Republican or regular Democrat, I'd guess that ticket wouldn't hold a lot of interest. But for the rest of us, and I'm pretty sure that number is significant and growing, both parties are becoming more repulsive by the day.

Let's put it this way: A lot of people voted for Trump because they were sick of what they were seeing. Well, I am too, I just don't care much for either "major" party and would welcome another way of shaking things up.
.

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

MAYBE a Mark Cuban/Bill Weld ticket. Both are leaning Independent/libertarian. Cuban has the personality/vision and Weld has the experience.

Have to see how agile Cuban is with real alternative solutions and political dealing.

Mark Cuban is definitely likable. And, like Trump, he seems to be pretty non ideological, non partisan, and non rigid in his political point of view. He supports more government intervention than I think most Libertarians (big L) would be comfortable with, much less than most Democrats would be comfortable with, but he rejects the Republicans as "too rigid" to accept anybody who varies from the status quo. Unlike Trump I don't see that he has a clear goals and objectives or a clear vision of what problems being fixed would look like or what makes America strong and prosperous.

He might have a tougher time than Trump dealing with the permanent political class in Washington. President Trump is the quintessential deal maker looking for win win solutions that work. Evenso he is hated in both parties because he is trying hard to shake up the status quo that is great for big government and not so great for the average American. And Mark Cuban probably would try to do that too but he is a self described loner when it comes to decision making. He admits he makes up his mind and orders it done. So as an Independent he could likely get more grief or at least even less cooperation from Congress and the professional bureaucrats

Trump showed how you circumvent fund raising and media attention. You don't need to beg for coverage. But I think someone like Cuban could do it better --- WITHOUT the vile and controversial daily wrestling matches.

Cuban is definitely on the "lean, efficient" side of Federal governing. And doesn't pander to the "social conservatives" in order to build a majority. So he's at LEAST a "small l" libertarian...

Wouldn't be surprised if the LParty got a phone call from him soon..

 

[Foxfyre]

Thing is I don't think Kasich on an independent would shake anything up

Nor do I. Which is why I would not be excited to see such a ticket.

Both of you would vote for Trump anyway, wouldn't you?

If not, what independent or mixed-party ticket would excite you?
.

MAYBE a Mark Cuban/Bill Weld ticket. Both are leaning Independent/libertarian. Cuban has the personality/vision and Weld has the experience.

Have to see how agile Cuban is with real alternative solutions and political dealing.

Mark Cuban is definitely likable. And, like Trump, he seems to be pretty non ideological, non partisan, and non rigid in his political point of view. He supports more government intervention than I think most Libertarians (big L) would be comfortable with, much less than most Democrats would be comfortable with, but he rejects the Republicans as "too rigid" to accept anybody who varies from the status quo. Unlike Trump I don't see that he has a clear goals and objectives or a clear vision of what problems being fixed would look like or what makes America strong and prosperous.

He might have a tougher time than Trump dealing with the permanent political class in Washington. President Trump is the quintessential deal maker looking for win win solutions that work. Evenso he is hated in both parties because he is trying hard to shake up the status quo that is great for big government and not so great for the average American. And Mark Cuban probably would try to do that too but he is a self described loner when it comes to decision making. He admits he makes up his mind and orders it done. So as an Independent he could likely get more grief or at least even less cooperation from Congress and the professional bureaucrats

Trump showed how you circumvent fund raising and media attention. You don't need to beg for coverage. But I think someone like Cuban could do it better --- WITHOUT the vile and controversial daily wrestling matches.

Cuban is definitely on the "lean, efficient" side of Federal governing. And doesn't pander to the "social conservatives" in order to build a majority. So he's at LEAST a "small l" libertarian...

Wouldn't be surprised if the LParty got a phone call from him soon..

We will see. I admit I am not at all excited about the prospects of a Cuban candidacy, but maybe he can win me over.