Good guy with a gun saves woman being stabbed to death...

[2aguy]

A survey study as your proof?

Yeah......

Why would you think they are? There are many in jail who thought they were lawfully defending themselves.

really? How often is self defense used as a defense and proved wrong?

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

 

[Brain357]

Here is a funny (kinda funny) anectodal DGU story

A buddy of mine has rental properties on a not so good side of town. He went to start an eviction and got into a verbal altercation with a couple of men who werent supposd to be living at this property.

Conversation turned into argument turned into heated argument. My friend ended up showing his gun in his shoulder holster.

One of the guys he was arguing with went back into the house and returned with an AR15. Game set match.

Who was actually using their gun for a DGU? My friend who felt threatened or the tenant who was threatened? Or neither? they were actually just trying to intimidate each other.

the AR won.

Most defenses aren't lawful.

And that is a lie brain. No research shows that to be even remotely true....yet you keep saying it....

I just posted the study.

 

[Brain357]

Why would you think they are? There are many in jail who thought they were lawfully defending themselves.

really? How often is self defense used as a defense and proved wrong?

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

 

[2aguy]

Here is a funny (kinda funny) anectodal DGU story

A buddy of mine has rental properties on a not so good side of town. He went to start an eviction and got into a verbal altercation with a couple of men who werent supposd to be living at this property.

Conversation turned into argument turned into heated argument. My friend ended up showing his gun in his shoulder holster.

One of the guys he was arguing with went back into the house and returned with an AR15. Game set match.

Who was actually using their gun for a DGU? My friend who felt threatened or the tenant who was threatened? Or neither? they were actually just trying to intimidate each other.

the AR won.

Most defenses aren't lawful.

Care to back up that statement?

Results—Even after excluding many reported firearm victimizations, far more survey respondents report having been threatened or intimidated with a gun than having used a gun to protect themselves. A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly.

INJURYPREV : Injury Prevention

Yeah...and there you go...hemenway was involved so it is immediately suspect as to it's accuracy and the Joyce foundation ....and anti gun group...rabidly anti gun group......

 

[2aguy]

really? How often is self defense used as a defense and proved wrong?

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

really? How often is self defense used as a defense and proved wrong?

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

This is exactly what Kleck said last year defending his research again.....

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth



Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

 

[2aguy]

Results—Even after excluding many reported firearm victimizations, far more survey respondents report having been threatened or intimidated with a gun than having used a gun to protect themselves. A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly.

INJURYPREV : Injury Prevention

A survey study as your proof?

Yeah......

Why would you think they are? There are many in jail who thought they were lawfully defending themselves.

really? How often is self defense used as a defense and proved wrong?

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

Your "study" was a random survey based questionaire, nothing more. It's less than nothing.

And noted anti gun extremists and activist david hemenway, a former member of Hand Gun Control Inc. is named on the study.....and it was financed by the Joyce Foundation....

 

[Brain357]

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

 

[Brain357]

You failed to answer my question. What would make you believe they are? I have provided a study, you have nothing.

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

This is exactly what Kleck said last year defending his research again.....

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth



Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

Who judged whether they were lawful? The defender always says it is lawful. Then they go to jail.

 

[2aguy]

I have also provided 40 years of research........that trumps one anti gun study you post...

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

again...you saying that you don't believe them and that you debunk them does not actually debunk them. They are peer reviewed, and have stood up against decades of attacks by anti gunners....not to mention the shear number of studies conducted by anti gunners, including Kleck, who came up with many of the numbers seen here on this list.......

And again, clinton, obama and several other anti gunners came up with large numbers as well....while they were desperately trying to find low numbers.

 

[Brain357]

You have a study on how many dgu are lawful?

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

again...you saying that you don't believe them and that you debunk them does not actually debunk them. They are peer reviewed, and have stood up against decades of attacks by anti gunners....not to mention the shear number of studies conducted by anti gunners, including Kleck, who came up with many of the numbers seen here on this list.......

And again, clinton, obama and several other anti gunners came up with large numbers as well....while they were desperately trying to find low numbers.

No actually only gun nuts take them seriously. But you still have posted nothing stating they are lawful.

 

[2aguy]

The ones done by clinton, and kleck for sure....the others...you will have to ask them...

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

again...you saying that you don't believe them and that you debunk them does not actually debunk them. They are peer reviewed, and have stood up against decades of attacks by anti gunners....not to mention the shear number of studies conducted by anti gunners, including Kleck, who came up with many of the numbers seen here on this list.......

And again, clinton, obama and several other anti gunners came up with large numbers as well....while they were desperately trying to find low numbers.

No actually only gun nuts take them seriously. But you still have posted nothing stating they are lawful.

I have posted the actual researcher you keep bringing up.....you have 0 research showing the people answering the survey were actual criminals....

You know...criminals, who used guns illegally, who had those guns in their possession illegally, a felony, and who face long prison sentences for merely possessing them, and you insist that they reported this illegal activity, facing jail time, to an anonymous survey taker asking them about their use of an illegal gun for an illegal activity........

And you think that makes sense........

 

[Brain357]

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

again...you saying that you don't believe them and that you debunk them does not actually debunk them. They are peer reviewed, and have stood up against decades of attacks by anti gunners....not to mention the shear number of studies conducted by anti gunners, including Kleck, who came up with many of the numbers seen here on this list.......

And again, clinton, obama and several other anti gunners came up with large numbers as well....while they were desperately trying to find low numbers.

No actually only gun nuts take them seriously. But you still have posted nothing stating they are lawful.

I have posted the actual researcher you keep bringing up.....you have 0 research showing the people answering the survey were actual criminals....

You know...criminals, who used guns illegally, who had those guns in their possession illegally, a felony, and who face long prison sentences for merely possessing them, and you insist that they reported this illegal activity, facing jail time, to an anonymous survey taker asking them about their use of an illegal gun for an illegal activity........

And you think that makes sense........

I have posted a study on whether DGU are lawful. You keep posting surveys about dgu numbers. Kleck didn't study if they were lawful.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What your friend did wrong is that if he really felt threatened he should have not brandished the weapon, but pulled it, aimed at the other guys, and held them in a submitted position until the police arrived.

You never just "show" a gun. You pull it, aim it, and get one of the parties to submit until law enforcement arrives.

How many times have you had to do that as a civilian?

Most criminals are not so stupid that you have to aim through a set of sights. At close quarters I wouldnt even advise it or things like a Weaver. I would and have held the gun at about Solar Plexis height, with the gun along the front of my body and my side turned toward them. IT will sting if I have to fire it, but I dont want them to grab my gun and I want my left hand free to do whatever a hand needs to do. I only had to do that once, the rest of the time simply them seeing the gun was enough.

And no way will I call the cops. These guys, not even mentioning th e DA, are rather inventive with the law at times and if they dont like what you have done you might be going to jail,no matter what, and your gun confiscated for all practical purposes once the cost of getting the item out of impound is higher than the cost to replace the item itself.

Where is the upside to calling in the cops if the crooks are gone and no harm done?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Please share the details then. Kleck has said most defenders are involved in criminal activity.

And that is a lie ...again.

While I find what he said...

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Those numbers have nothing to do with them being lawful. Also they are quite debunked...

again...you saying that you don't believe them and that you debunk them does not actually debunk them. They are peer reviewed, and have stood up against decades of attacks by anti gunners....not to mention the shear number of studies conducted by anti gunners, including Kleck, who came up with many of the numbers seen here on this list.......

And again, clinton, obama and several other anti gunners came up with large numbers as well....while they were desperately trying to find low numbers.

No actually only gun nuts take them seriously. But you still have posted nothing stating they are lawful.

I have posted the actual researcher you keep bringing up.....you have 0 research showing the people answering the survey were actual criminals....

You know...criminals, who used guns illegally, who had those guns in their possession illegally, a felony, and who face long prison sentences for merely possessing them, and you insist that they reported this illegal activity, facing jail time, to an anonymous survey taker asking them about their use of an illegal gun for an illegal activity........

And you think that makes sense........

Most criminals know that they can arm themselves from things inside the residence and then leave it there as they leave, used or unused.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Here is a funny (kinda funny) anectodal DGU story

A buddy of mine has rental properties on a not so good side of town. He went to start an eviction and got into a verbal altercation with a couple of men who werent supposd to be living at this property.

Conversation turned into argument turned into heated argument. My friend ended up showing his gun in his shoulder holster.

One of the guys he was arguing with went back into the house and returned with an AR15. Game set match.

Who was actually using their gun for a DGU? My friend who felt threatened or the tenant who was threatened? Or neither? they were actually just trying to intimidate each other.

the AR won.

If your friend was smart he would have then evicted those men and then he 'wins' as those fucks are not renting under good intent.

And the DGU was the owner, based on what you have said. The guy that went and got the AR was escalating a tense situation unnecessarily as I doubt the owner was threatening to shoot them except in self defense.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Who judged whether they were lawful? The defender always says it is lawful. Then they go to jail.

In violent encounters the cops always put all the males in jail and will sort them out later. They can hold you for 24 hours, you know?

 

[Brain357]

Who judged whether they were lawful? The defender always says it is lawful. Then they go to jail.

In violent encounters the cops always put all the males in jail and will sort them out later. They can hold you for 24 hours, you know?

Many are prosecuted and spend a good deal of time in jail.

 

[Wilbur Right]

If your friend was smart he would have then evicted those men and then he 'wins' as those fucks are not renting under good intent.

thats why he was at the property. to post the 3 day notice to vacate. Which starts the eviction process.


He by his own admission showed his gun in an effort to intimidate the men he was arguing with. When one of the men went back into the house, he said he wasnt sure what to expect. When the man returned with his AR, my friend was intimidated, got in his truck and left.

Nobody got shot. He didnt call the cops.
DGUs all around I say. Both parties had a gun for the same reason and both used the gun for the same reason.
A double shot of DGUs.

 

[Brain357]

If your friend was smart he would have then evicted those men and then he 'wins' as those fucks are not renting under good intent.

thats why he was at the property. to post the 3 day notice to vacate. Which starts the eviction process.


He by his own admission showed his gun in an effort to intimidate the men he was arguing with. When one of the men went back into the house, he said he wasnt sure what to expect. When the man returned with his AR, my friend was intimidated, got in his truck and left.

Nobody got shot. He didnt call the cops.
DGUs all around I say. Both parties had a gun for the same reason and both used the gun for the same reason.
A double shot of DGUs.

But not lawful.