GOP may "leverage" debt ceiling against de-funding Obamacare

[Kondor3]

The GOP-controlled House does not have the votes to de-fund ObamaCare, directly or indirectly?

Why do you say that?

The House controls the nation's purse-strings, yes?

The Republicans control the House, yes?

There are probably two or three 'attack vectors' for accomplishing this in the House, correct?

And the number of votes they require probably depends upon which attack-vector they pursue, yes?

For approach (vector) A or B or C...

How many votes do they need?

A simple majority?

A super-majority?

If the House Speaker and GOP House Leadership get behind any such initiative and then turn up the heat on the handful of Republicans who might otherwise balk?

I am guessing (and I truly do not know, at this juncture) that they will, indeed, have enough, to hold ObamaCare hostage.

And, to counterpointing that which holds it to be Political Suicide to put the brakes on ObamaCare...

There are two alternative factors to consider when looking at that...

1. anti-ObamaCare poll numbers are still high and seem to be increasing as Healthcare Doomsday approaches.

2. people respect politicians who risk falling on their swords in order to do the right thing.

But, we won't really know whether this is going anywhere until the GOP leadership is done looking at this.

If they decide to Man-Up and try to neutralize ObamaCare, they'll probably get my vote in 2014 and 2016...

If they don't try to stop ObamaCare, I'll be less inclined to look closely at them during those elections...

With Middle-Class Working Folk getting screwed-over left and right with unfavorable and far more costly healthcare coverage changes in the workplace, including the dropping of coverage for dependents in some cases, and as Healthcare Doomsday approaches, the GOP finds itself in a singular leadership position, presented with a historical and unique opportunity to put a halt to this Abortion of a Program before it can produce truly unfortunate consequences...

I don't know what the answer is to Nationalized Healthcare, nor even if we SHOULD attempt some form of Nationalized Healthcare (despite the lovely and best intentions of the more Liberal amongst us on this subject), but I DO know that this particular solution is an Abortion... slapped-together vestiges of older plans... ill-considered and half-hidden and tremendous in size and impossible to master in a short timeframe, at the time of the vote... a piece of government-imposed shit that even our Fearless Leaders - the hypocritical cruds - want nothing to do with - ditto for government unions - and which business is getting a stay-of-execution on, while the Common Folk are having it shoved down their throats at the speed of light...

Here's hoping that the Republicans find their courage, and do what is right, and kill this thing, hitting it from one or more angles - preferably, multiple angles, simultaneously, if practicable - and damn the consequences at the polls...

Republicans... meet Balls...

I wonder if we'll have any takers?

 

[dblack]

The GOP-controlled House does not have the votes to de-fund ObamaCare, directly or indirectly?

Why do you say that?

The House controls the nation's purse-strings, yes?

The Republicans control the House, yes?

There are probably two or three 'attack vectors' for accomplishing this in the House, correct?

And the number of votes they require probably depends upon which attack-vector they pursue, yes?

For approach (vector) A or B or C...

How many votes do they need?

A simple majority?

A super-majority?

If the House Speaker and GOP House Leadership get behind any such initiative and then turn up the heat on the handful of Republicans who might otherwise balk?

I am guessing (and I truly do not know, at this juncture) that they will, indeed, have enough, to hold ObamaCare hostage.

And, to counterpointing that which holds it to be Political Suicide to put the brakes on ObamaCare...

There are two alternative factors to consider when looking at that...

1. anti-ObamaCare poll numbers are still high and seem to be increasing as Healthcare Doomsday approaches.

2. people respect politicians who risk falling on their swords in order to do the right thing.

But, we won't really know whether this is going anywhere until the GOP leadership is done looking at this.

If they decide to Man-Up and try to neutralize ObamaCare, they'll probably get my vote in 2014 and 2016...

If they don't try to stop ObamaCare, I'll be less inclined to look closely at them during those elections...

With Middle-Class Working Folk getting screwed-over left and right with unfavorable and far more costly healthcare coverage changes in the workplace, including the dropping of coverage for dependents in some cases, and as Healthcare Doomsday approaches, the GOP finds itself in a singular leadership position, presented with a historical and unique opportunity to put a halt to this Abortion of a Program before it can produce truly unfortunate consequences...

I don't know what the answer is to Nationalized Healthcare, nor even if we SHOULD attempt some form of Nationalized Healthcare (despite the lovely and best intentions of the more Liberal amongst us on this subject), but I DO know that this particular solution is an Abortion... slapped-together vestiges of older plans... ill-considered and half-hidden and tremendous in size and impossible to master in a short timeframe, at the time of the vote... a piece of government-imposed shit that even our Fearless Leaders - the hypocritical cruds - want nothing to do with - ditto for government unions - and which business is getting a stay-of-execution on, while the Common Folk are having it shoved down their throats at the speed of light...

Here's hoping that the Republicans find their courage, and do what is right, and kill this thing, hitting it from one or more angles - preferably, multiple angles, simultaneously, if practicable - and damn the consequences at the polls...

Republicans... meet Balls...

I wonder if we'll have any takers?

That's the question. Some of them will step up - the genuine libertarians among them are few, but there's growing concern within the party that if the they don't stand up for something, they'll continue sliding into irrelevance.

I'm torn. On one level I'd like to see the Republicans complete their slide and collapse as a party. But that's based on the optimistic assumption that they'd be replaced by something better, and that's by no means a given.

 

[kennel.meister]

The House tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 80 of 243 Republican votes.

The Senate tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 13 of 45 Republican votes.

And the moderate Republicans have said "no mas children, why not entertain yourselves with talk of 'impeachment', that's always something fun to do"



"Balls said the Queen, if I had two I'd be King"

 

[JakeStarkey]

The GOP mainstream in house and senate have said "no", period.

This is over. It is the law of the land.

 

[dblack]

The House tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 80 of 243 votes.

The Senate tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 13 of 45 votes.

And the moderate Republicans have said "no mas"

"Balls said the Queen, if I had two I'd be King"

Huh... I didn't know they'd voted already. Oh, wait - that's because they haven't.

Predictions are predictions - we'll see how it pans out. But they should try in any case. We're radically changing our form of government - dismissing the fundamental principles of free society: rule of law, equal protection, individual rights. We won't get them back easily.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, we have seen how the 'end of day' predictions by reactionaries have worked out here on the Board and in real life.

No, star gazers and dream catchers, this is over. ACA is law and will remain so.

 

[Stephanie]

the only one using BLACKMAIL is Obama and it's so he can PUT MORE DEPT on the backs of our children and grandchildren

what a hero he and his party is

 

[Kondor3]

"...Republicans... meet Balls... I wonder if we'll have any takers?"

That's the question. Some of them will step up - the genuine libertarians among them are few, but there's growing concern within the party that if the they don't stand up for something, they'll continue sliding into irrelevance.

I'm torn. On one level I'd like to see the Republicans complete their slide and collapse as a party. But that's based on the optimistic assumption that they'd be replaced by something better, and that's by no means a given.

Well-said.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Get rid of our reactionary far right, and the GOP would become once again a truly great party and worthy opponent of the Democrats and liberals.

 

[dilloduck]

Get rid of our reactionary far right, and the GOP would become once again a truly great party and worthy opponent of the Democrats and liberals.

reactionary--new word for ya? playing a little word cloud search game or do you just like the way it sounds ?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I pm'd you the definitions, which are certainly old hat to those who are nuanced and understand modern politics.

Catch up, please.

 

[dblack]

When I was a kid, there was this shortcut that I'd take to school that went through a pasture belonging to a local dairy farm. I learned fairly quickly to watch where I stepped if I didn't want to smell like shit for the rest of the day. Step around the thread craps, please.

 

[kennel.meister]

The House tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 80 of 243 votes.

The Senate tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 13 of 45 votes.

And the moderate Republicans have said "no mas"

"Balls said the Queen, if I had two I'd be King"

Huh... I didn't know they'd voted already. Oh, wait - that's because they haven't.

Predictions are predictions - we'll see how it pans out. But they should try in any case. We're radically changing our form of government - dismissing the fundamental principles of free society: rule of law, equal protection, individual rights. We won't get them back easily.

No they haven't voted because neither Boehner nor McConnell have the votes.

And these suckers never vote on a bill that they know they can't win.

 

[JakeStarkey]

ACA is by the Rule of Law: an electorate told the far right reactionaries to step off, a Congress passed it in the House and the Senate, a President signed it, and a SCOTUS opined it to be constitutional.

Tuff that.

 

[kennel.meister]

ACA is by the Rule of Law: an electorate told the far right reactionaries to step off, a Congress passed it in the House and the Senate, a President signed it, and a SCOTUS opined it to be constitutional.

Tuff that.

But that doesn't mean tea baggers can't strut around the school yard with 10 of their buddies, threatening to beat up all the Liberals ....

 

[JakeStarkey]

ACA is by the Rule of Law: an electorate told the far right reactionaries to step off, a Congress passed it in the House and the Senate, a President signed it, and a SCOTUS opined it to be constitutional.

Tuff that.

But that doesn't mean tea baggers can't strut around the school yard with 10 of their buddies, threatening to beat up all the Liberals ....

Buncha cowards. All they do is threaten, and when confronted, run away.

 

[dblack]

The House tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 80 of 243 votes.

The Senate tea party "defunders" and "shut downers" have 13 of 45 votes.

And the moderate Republicans have said "no mas"

"Balls said the Queen, if I had two I'd be King"

Huh... I didn't know they'd voted already. Oh, wait - that's because they haven't.

Predictions are predictions - we'll see how it pans out. But they should try in any case. We're radically changing our form of government - dismissing the fundamental principles of free society: rule of law, equal protection, individual rights. We won't get them back easily.

No they haven't voted because neither Boehner nor McConnell have the votes.

And these suckers never vote on a bill that they know they can't win.

Well, if it were up to Boehner, it would never come to a vote anyway.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

If that is what it takes to save the country from financial ruin (Detroit) then so be it. We cannot continue to spend more than we collect. Sooner or later the piper has to be paid.

You don't save a government from bankruptcy by causing it to go bankrupt. That's just retarded.

The country is going bankrupt, the only question is when.

How short are you on U.S. Treasuries? I'm sure you must have have a short position, considering you know something that millions of bond investors do not. Its pretty much free money, as every bond you sell short will never have to be paid back since the U.S. will be filing bankruptcy. You're limited only by the margin requirements.

If you don't I presume its because you lack funds. In that case I would suggest trying to find an investor with money that you can tell about your insider knowledge, in exchange for a cut of the proceeds. Since you know absolutely for sure the government will be filing bankruptcy, all you need to do is show the evidence to an investor with money and I'm sure you'll be paid well for it.

So just find someone with actual money to put on the line to believe you. Shouldn't be hard.

We cannot continue to spend 1 trillion more than we take in every year.

We probably won't.

when does it end?

When the economy fully recovers.

how can it end without bankruptcy?

We've been worse off in terms of real dollars v GDP

United States Debt as a Percentage of GDP (1940-2012) | Visual.ly

right now we are only paying interest on the debt, nothing on the principal. How long can that continue?

If the U.S. wasn't paying its principle obligations on its bond issues treasuries would open at $0 on Monday and your bank would be closed before you finished your morning coffee.

 

[Moonglow]

the only one using BLACKMAIL is Obama and it's so he can PUT MORE DEPT on the backs of our children and grandchildren

what a hero he and his party is

just like every president since Andrew Jackson has?

 

[Moonglow]

there are laws on the books that I hate than the ACA.