GOP strategy - disrupted Dem town hall meetings

[DiveCon]

Don't care what the memo said. Not the point.

Anyone is free to voice their opinion, question and participate. If they become disorderly or disruptive, arrest them. Doesn't matter if it was a memo they were following or if they just took it upon themselves to be disorderly. From the videos I have seen, there were some people who should have been removed from the meetings.

well, had you read the memo, you would know that what they claimed to be happening ISNT

The memo proves what? You are about as stupid as they come.

A memo doesn't show one way or the other what is happening at these meetings.

LOL
you are the stupid fuck
the memos say NOT TO DISRUPT

 

[DiveCon]

These people are certainly free to attend and question issues at public meetings. The disruption part is the problem. Anyone behaving in a disorderly fashion, in a public place should be arrested and charged. If we can arrest people for shouting on their front porch we can certainly arrest them for shouting at a public meeting.

Shouldn't judgement be withheld until a disruption happens?

Do you know if any of the code pink idiots were arrested for any of their disruptions?

Apparently, Fox isn't showing the videos that I see on MSNBC.

and more than likely MSNBC is fabricating those videos for the braindead like YOU

 

[Sweet Willy]

well, had you read the memo, you would know that what they claimed to be happening ISNT

The memo proves what? You are about as stupid as they come.

A memo doesn't show one way or the other what is happening at these meetings.

LOL
you are the stupid fuck
the memos say NOT TO DISRUPT

And the sign says 55 MPH so obviously no one is speeding.


Let me say this again. If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed. What any memo says has exactly NOTHING to do with how someone is behaving at these meetings.

 

[DiveCon]

The memo proves what? You are about as stupid as they come.

A memo doesn't show one way or the other what is happening at these meetings.

LOL
you are the stupid fuck
the memos say NOT TO DISRUPT

And the sign says 55 MPH so obviously no one is speeding.


Let me say this again. If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed. What any memo says has exactly NOTHING to do with how someone is behaving at these meetings.

do you have proof that people are being disruptive?
nope, cause if you did, you would post it

 

[Lonestar_logic]

These people are certainly free to attend and question issues at public meetings. The disruption part is the problem. Anyone behaving in a disorderly fashion, in a public place should be arrested and charged. If we can arrest people for shouting on their front porch we can certainly arrest them for shouting at a public meeting.

Shouldn't judgement be withheld until a disruption happens?

Do you know if any of the code pink idiots were arrested for any of their disruptions?

Apparently, Fox isn't showing the videos that I see on MSNBC.

I wouldn't know, I don't watch Fox or MSNBC.

 

[Political Junky]

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"

 

[DiveCon]

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"

and you have proof this memo had ANYTHING to do with that?

 

[Sweet Willy]

LOL
you are the stupid fuck
the memos say NOT TO DISRUPT

And the sign says 55 MPH so obviously no one is speeding.


Let me say this again. If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed. What any memo says has exactly NOTHING to do with how someone is behaving at these meetings.

do you have proof that people are being disruptive?
nope, cause if you did, you would post it

How fucking dumb can you be?

If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed.



This is really simple dumbass. People have the right to paticipate in these meetings. IF they become disruptive, they should be removed.

IF. It's a common fucking word. I haven't accused anyone of being disruptive, haven't accused anyone of writing a memo that instructs people to be disruptive. The entire point is that memos and strategies don't fucking matter. Become disruptive and be removed. It's really simple. Don't be disruptive, be a constructive part of discourse and enjoy your right to political dissent.

 

[Bfgrn]

Senate Republicans plan to introduce a health care bill that is similiar to one favored by conservative House Democrats and includes many elements of President Clinton's plan but would not include most government mandates and price controls.

Although substantial differences exist among the three plans, it has been decades since such diverse congressional blocs agreed on even a general structure for health care reform. That apparent consensus may make it easier to pass comprehensive legislation in the near future.

"They're really all talking about the same framework," said John Rother, legislative director for the American Association of Retired Persons. "This is incredible progress since a ...
Senate GOP Health Care Bill to Include Elements of Clinton Plan | Article from The Washington Post | HighBeam Research

Feb 15, 1994 - A Senate committee voted 4-3 Monday for a Republican health-care bill that would require insurers to offer basic benefit packages that ... that the bill would restrict a woman's access to abortion, but supporters said at a hearing before the Senate Select Committee on Health Care ...
From GOP HEALTH-CARE BILL GAINS IN WISCONSIN

The House last night passed a health care reform bill designed to guarantee access for millions of Americans who change jobs or lose them, establish medical savings accounts and set limits on malpractice awards


The vote was 267-151.

Democrats called the GOP measure an effort to "sabotage real health care reform" by "loading it up" with "gifts" for special interests, such as insurance companies and
NewsLibrary Search Results

Today, the leading Republican health care reform alternative, The Patients' Choice Act, will be introduced in the Senate by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC), and in the House by Reps. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA). The bill would assure essential health coverage and health care to every U.S. citizen, without increased federal spending and taxes, and without the federal government taking over your health care. For precisely those reasons, today's left wing Democrats will not support it.

The American Spectator : The Republican Health Care Alternative
The House moved toward passage early today of a $350 billion Republican plan to help older Americans pay for prescription drugs, after a struggle within the GOP over legislation that both political parties consider vital to the elderly -- and to their electoral fortunes this fall.

Debate on the legislation was postponed throughout most of the day yesterday, as House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and the Bush administration mounted a lobbying blitz to persuade a core of rebellious Republicans it was essential to demonstrate momentum on a pivotal issue before lawmakers go home this weekend ...

House Nears Vote on Prescription Drug Plan; Hastert Lobbying of Republican Faction on Aid Proposal Reveals Internal GOP Struggle - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Those are just a few of the Republican healthcare measures over the last several years. To simply make the statement or imply that Republicans have sat on the sidelines and done nothing on healthcare is completely false. In fact all the issues you pointed out were issues that are not related to a single party. I seem to recall that since 1/07 demcrats have been in power in both housees of congress and all the while could have proposed legislation on universal healthcare at anytime. One more thing to consider here as well all those votes on spending bills took the participation of a willing congress to make it happen. You will not find in me any support for over spending be it the last administration or the current one. It makes no difference to me if they are democrats or republicans. One other thing to consider here as well, all that war spending that you seem to imply was a result of republicans over spending could have been avoided easily had democrats decided to do so. However that was not the case. I don't look at one party and place blame, I look at the whole and hold them all accountable for their actions and that includes Bush if you really want to know the truth. Further, many on here who have read my postings know one thing about me and that is if I thought Bush had done something wrong I had no trouble pointing it out.

2007 Iraq War spending Vote 80-14

Authorization for Use of Force in Iraq Senate 77- 23

By the way here is something you probably didn't know
Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).

All voted AGAINST the war in Iraq when the likes of Clinton and others did, so my point here is this, these reps. are ours regardless of the D. and the R. so hold them accountable for what they do regardless of what party they belong too.

The Democrat's accusation came TRUE when Bush and the Republican Congress passed Medicare D...an unfunded burden on taxpayers BUT, a BOON for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, ..too bad it F_CKED our elderly citizens and the poor...

This really sheds light on the heart of the problem Navy...there are two philosophies of governing today...the Democrats which is close to our founding father's beliefs and the Republicans, which would more closely match Mussolini's beliefs...

Our founding fathers created a government, not a corporate entity... Americans really need to educate themselves on what our founders thought of corporations and the LIMITS and restrictions they placed on them...and they also need to be fully aware and understand that the biggest threat to what our founders intended is the power corporations and special interests have gained since the horrible Supreme Court outcome of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

 

[Navy1960]

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may. ~Mark Twain

Thousands of anti-war protesters poured into San Francisco on Thursday, fulfilling their promise to disrupt life in the city as they occupied intersections, blocked buildings and tried to shut down the Bay Bridge in protests that occasionally turned violent.

Sirens wailed throughout downtown and helicopters whirred overhead most of the day as police in riot gear hustled to keep up with bands of demonstrators. Often they were unsuccessful, as small groups of protesters scurried into place in intersections or dodged around corners to elude police.

At least 1,025 people were arrested by early evening. Demonstrators said there would be several days of civil disobedience to come as they protest the U.S. war in Iraq.
Protest creates gridlock on SF streets

ABC News' Jennifer Duck Reports: Sen. John McCain addressed a conference of the National Council of La Raza in San Diego a day after his opponent, Sen. Barack Obama appeared before the nation's largest Latino civil rights group.

Less than a minute into his speech protesters shouted repeatedly, “Bring our sons home.”

Watch part of McCain's speech HERE.

McCain was in the middle of a sentence talking about respect for Hispanic heritage when the small protest in the back of the room caused him to stop abruptly and say, “this happens every once in a while.”

After the disruption ceased, McCain went off script saying, “You know my friends, the one thing I say in all of these town hall meetings that I have been having -- hundreds and hundreds across America. The one thing Americans want us to do is stop yelling at each other
Anti-War Protesters Heckle McCain at Hispanic Conference - Political Radar

I think it's rather amazing for one side of this debate to be so upset over the other exercising their 1st Amendment rights when clearly they have no trouble doing the same thing.

 

[DiveCon]

And the sign says 55 MPH so obviously no one is speeding.


Let me say this again. If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed. What any memo says has exactly NOTHING to do with how someone is behaving at these meetings.

do you have proof that people are being disruptive?
nope, cause if you did, you would post it

How fucking dumb can you be?

If anyone becomes disruptive or disorderly, they should be removed.



This is really simple dumbass. People have the right to paticipate in these meetings. IF they become disruptive, they should be removed.

IF. It's a common fucking word. I haven't accused anyone of being disruptive, haven't accused anyone of writing a memo that instructs people to be disruptive. The entire point is that memos and strategies don't fucking matter. Become disruptive and be removed. It's really simple. Don't be disruptive, be a constructive part of discourse and enjoy your right to political dissent.

ah, so you are not defending the stupidity in the OP and instead deflecting to something else

 

[DiveCon]

Senate Republicans plan to introduce a health care bill that is similiar to one favored by conservative House Democrats and includes many elements of President Clinton's plan but would not include most government mandates and price controls.

Although substantial differences exist among the three plans, it has been decades since such diverse congressional blocs agreed on even a general structure for health care reform. That apparent consensus may make it easier to pass comprehensive legislation in the near future.

"They're really all talking about the same framework," said John Rother, legislative director for the American Association of Retired Persons. "This is incredible progress since a ...
Senate GOP Health Care Bill to Include Elements of Clinton Plan | Article from The Washington Post | HighBeam Research

Feb 15, 1994 - A Senate committee voted 4-3 Monday for a Republican health-care bill that would require insurers to offer basic benefit packages that ... that the bill would restrict a woman's access to abortion, but supporters said at a hearing before the Senate Select Committee on Health Care ...
From GOP HEALTH-CARE BILL GAINS IN WISCONSIN

The House last night passed a health care reform bill designed to guarantee access for millions of Americans who change jobs or lose them, establish medical savings accounts and set limits on malpractice awards


The vote was 267-151.

Democrats called the GOP measure an effort to "sabotage real health care reform" by "loading it up" with "gifts" for special interests, such as insurance companies and
NewsLibrary Search Results

Today, the leading Republican health care reform alternative, The Patients' Choice Act, will be introduced in the Senate by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC), and in the House by Reps. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA). The bill would assure essential health coverage and health care to every U.S. citizen, without increased federal spending and taxes, and without the federal government taking over your health care. For precisely those reasons, today's left wing Democrats will not support it.

The American Spectator : The Republican Health Care Alternative
The House moved toward passage early today of a $350 billion Republican plan to help older Americans pay for prescription drugs, after a struggle within the GOP over legislation that both political parties consider vital to the elderly -- and to their electoral fortunes this fall.

Debate on the legislation was postponed throughout most of the day yesterday, as House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and the Bush administration mounted a lobbying blitz to persuade a core of rebellious Republicans it was essential to demonstrate momentum on a pivotal issue before lawmakers go home this weekend ...

House Nears Vote on Prescription Drug Plan; Hastert Lobbying of Republican Faction on Aid Proposal Reveals Internal GOP Struggle - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Those are just a few of the Republican healthcare measures over the last several years. To simply make the statement or imply that Republicans have sat on the sidelines and done nothing on healthcare is completely false. In fact all the issues you pointed out were issues that are not related to a single party. I seem to recall that since 1/07 demcrats have been in power in both housees of congress and all the while could have proposed legislation on universal healthcare at anytime. One more thing to consider here as well all those votes on spending bills took the participation of a willing congress to make it happen. You will not find in me any support for over spending be it the last administration or the current one. It makes no difference to me if they are democrats or republicans. One other thing to consider here as well, all that war spending that you seem to imply was a result of republicans over spending could have been avoided easily had democrats decided to do so. However that was not the case. I don't look at one party and place blame, I look at the whole and hold them all accountable for their actions and that includes Bush if you really want to know the truth. Further, many on here who have read my postings know one thing about me and that is if I thought Bush had done something wrong I had no trouble pointing it out.

2007 Iraq War spending Vote 80-14

Authorization for Use of Force in Iraq Senate 77- 23

By the way here is something you probably didn't know
Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).

All voted AGAINST the war in Iraq when the likes of Clinton and others did, so my point here is this, these reps. are ours regardless of the D. and the R. so hold them accountable for what they do regardless of what party they belong too.

The Democrat's accusation came TRUE when Bush and the Republican Congress passed Medicare D...an unfunded burden on taxpayers BUT, a BOON for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, ..too bad it F_CKED our elderly citizens and the poor...

This really sheds light on the heart of the problem Navy...there are two philosophies of governing today...the Democrats which is close to our founding father's beliefs and the Republicans, which would more closely match Mussolini's beliefs...

Our founding fathers created a government, not a corporate entity... Americans really need to educate themselves on what our founders thought of corporations and the LIMITS and restrictions they placed on them...and they also need to be fully aware and understand that the biggest threat to what our founders intended is the power corporations and special interests have gained since the horrible Supreme Court outcome of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

uh, how the fuck is it an "unfunded burden" when it is funded by tax payer funds

 

[Bfgrn]

Senate Republicans plan to introduce a health care bill that is similiar to one favored by conservative House Democrats and includes many elements of President Clinton's plan but would not include most government mandates and price controls.

Although substantial differences exist among the three plans, it has been decades since such diverse congressional blocs agreed on even a general structure for health care reform. That apparent consensus may make it easier to pass comprehensive legislation in the near future.

"They're really all talking about the same framework," said John Rother, legislative director for the American Association of Retired Persons. "This is incredible progress since a ...
Senate GOP Health Care Bill to Include Elements of Clinton Plan | Article from The Washington Post | HighBeam Research

Feb 15, 1994 - A Senate committee voted 4-3 Monday for a Republican health-care bill that would require insurers to offer basic benefit packages that ... that the bill would restrict a woman's access to abortion, but supporters said at a hearing before the Senate Select Committee on Health Care ...
From GOP HEALTH-CARE BILL GAINS IN WISCONSIN

The House last night passed a health care reform bill designed to guarantee access for millions of Americans who change jobs or lose them, establish medical savings accounts and set limits on malpractice awards


The vote was 267-151.

Democrats called the GOP measure an effort to "sabotage real health care reform" by "loading it up" with "gifts" for special interests, such as insurance companies and
NewsLibrary Search Results

Today, the leading Republican health care reform alternative, The Patients' Choice Act, will be introduced in the Senate by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC), and in the House by Reps. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA). The bill would assure essential health coverage and health care to every U.S. citizen, without increased federal spending and taxes, and without the federal government taking over your health care. For precisely those reasons, today's left wing Democrats will not support it.

The American Spectator : The Republican Health Care Alternative
The House moved toward passage early today of a $350 billion Republican plan to help older Americans pay for prescription drugs, after a struggle within the GOP over legislation that both political parties consider vital to the elderly -- and to their electoral fortunes this fall.

Debate on the legislation was postponed throughout most of the day yesterday, as House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and the Bush administration mounted a lobbying blitz to persuade a core of rebellious Republicans it was essential to demonstrate momentum on a pivotal issue before lawmakers go home this weekend ...

House Nears Vote on Prescription Drug Plan; Hastert Lobbying of Republican Faction on Aid Proposal Reveals Internal GOP Struggle - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Those are just a few of the Republican healthcare measures over the last several years. To simply make the statement or imply that Republicans have sat on the sidelines and done nothing on healthcare is completely false. In fact all the issues you pointed out were issues that are not related to a single party. I seem to recall that since 1/07 demcrats have been in power in both housees of congress and all the while could have proposed legislation on universal healthcare at anytime. One more thing to consider here as well all those votes on spending bills took the participation of a willing congress to make it happen. You will not find in me any support for over spending be it the last administration or the current one. It makes no difference to me if they are democrats or republicans. One other thing to consider here as well, all that war spending that you seem to imply was a result of republicans over spending could have been avoided easily had democrats decided to do so. However that was not the case. I don't look at one party and place blame, I look at the whole and hold them all accountable for their actions and that includes Bush if you really want to know the truth. Further, many on here who have read my postings know one thing about me and that is if I thought Bush had done something wrong I had no trouble pointing it out.

2007 Iraq War spending Vote 80-14

Authorization for Use of Force in Iraq Senate 77- 23

By the way here is something you probably didn't know
Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).

All voted AGAINST the war in Iraq when the likes of Clinton and others did, so my point here is this, these reps. are ours regardless of the D. and the R. so hold them accountable for what they do regardless of what party they belong too.

The Democrat's accusation came TRUE when Bush and the Republican Congress passed Medicare D...an unfunded burden on taxpayers BUT, a BOON for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, ..too bad it F_CKED our elderly citizens and the poor...

This really sheds light on the heart of the problem Navy...there are two philosophies of governing today...the Democrats which is close to our founding father's beliefs and the Republicans, which would more closely match Mussolini's beliefs...

Our founding fathers created a government, not a corporate entity... Americans really need to educate themselves on what our founders thought of corporations and the LIMITS and restrictions they placed on them...and they also need to be fully aware and understand that the biggest threat to what our founders intended is the power corporations and special interests have gained since the horrible Supreme Court outcome of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

uh, how the fuck is it an "unfunded burden" when it is funded by tax payer funds

You really need to think about what you just said... the Republicans didn't have any way to PAY for their GIFT to corporations known as Medicare D EXCEPT on our dime...no requirements of being deficit neutral or PAYGO rules applied...

 

[MaggieMae]

Like hell.

I agree....Obama's meetings are staged, and the ones who ask the questions are chosen beforehand. Every now and then he will allow a FOX reporter to ask a question, but after he got is ass burned last time with the question of "what took you so long?" I don't think he will do that anymore.

Absolutely 100% scripted...he has a list of who to call on and every question that will be asked.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2k_oIo0Zc]YouTube - Lynn Sweet Dissed At Obama News Conference[/ame]

​

She was dissed? It was Lynn Sweet who got the last question in which was...drumroll please...the one about Professor Gates getting arrested and which went on to generate 24/7 news coverage for an entire week and a half.

 

[NO!bama08]

Sounds like real Americans are finally getting pissed off enough to go out and raise some hell. Taking time off from work, yell a little, make themselves known. Maybe there is something to learn from liberals who have nothing better to do than sit around, paint protest signs, go to rallies, cry and whine to the networks... etc.

 

[Navy1960]

Senate Republicans plan to introduce a health care bill that is similiar to one favored by conservative House Democrats and includes many elements of President Clinton's plan but would not include most government mandates and price controls.

Although substantial differences exist among the three plans, it has been decades since such diverse congressional blocs agreed on even a general structure for health care reform. That apparent consensus may make it easier to pass comprehensive legislation in the near future.

"They're really all talking about the same framework," said John Rother, legislative director for the American Association of Retired Persons. "This is incredible progress since a ...
Senate GOP Health Care Bill to Include Elements of Clinton Plan | Article from The Washington Post | HighBeam Research

Feb 15, 1994 - A Senate committee voted 4-3 Monday for a Republican health-care bill that would require insurers to offer basic benefit packages that ... that the bill would restrict a woman's access to abortion, but supporters said at a hearing before the Senate Select Committee on Health Care ...
From GOP HEALTH-CARE BILL GAINS IN WISCONSIN

The House last night passed a health care reform bill designed to guarantee access for millions of Americans who change jobs or lose them, establish medical savings accounts and set limits on malpractice awards


The vote was 267-151.

Democrats called the GOP measure an effort to "sabotage real health care reform" by "loading it up" with "gifts" for special interests, such as insurance companies and
NewsLibrary Search Results

Today, the leading Republican health care reform alternative, The Patients' Choice Act, will be introduced in the Senate by Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and Richard Burr (R-NC), and in the House by Reps. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Devin Nunes (R-CA). The bill would assure essential health coverage and health care to every U.S. citizen, without increased federal spending and taxes, and without the federal government taking over your health care. For precisely those reasons, today's left wing Democrats will not support it.

The American Spectator : The Republican Health Care Alternative
The House moved toward passage early today of a $350 billion Republican plan to help older Americans pay for prescription drugs, after a struggle within the GOP over legislation that both political parties consider vital to the elderly -- and to their electoral fortunes this fall.

Debate on the legislation was postponed throughout most of the day yesterday, as House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and the Bush administration mounted a lobbying blitz to persuade a core of rebellious Republicans it was essential to demonstrate momentum on a pivotal issue before lawmakers go home this weekend ...

House Nears Vote on Prescription Drug Plan; Hastert Lobbying of Republican Faction on Aid Proposal Reveals Internal GOP Struggle - The Washington Post | Encyclopedia.com

Those are just a few of the Republican healthcare measures over the last several years. To simply make the statement or imply that Republicans have sat on the sidelines and done nothing on healthcare is completely false. In fact all the issues you pointed out were issues that are not related to a single party. I seem to recall that since 1/07 demcrats have been in power in both housees of congress and all the while could have proposed legislation on universal healthcare at anytime. One more thing to consider here as well all those votes on spending bills took the participation of a willing congress to make it happen. You will not find in me any support for over spending be it the last administration or the current one. It makes no difference to me if they are democrats or republicans. One other thing to consider here as well, all that war spending that you seem to imply was a result of republicans over spending could have been avoided easily had democrats decided to do so. However that was not the case. I don't look at one party and place blame, I look at the whole and hold them all accountable for their actions and that includes Bush if you really want to know the truth. Further, many on here who have read my postings know one thing about me and that is if I thought Bush had done something wrong I had no trouble pointing it out.

2007 Iraq War spending Vote 80-14

Authorization for Use of Force in Iraq Senate 77- 23

By the way here is something you probably didn't know
Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).

All voted AGAINST the war in Iraq when the likes of Clinton and others did, so my point here is this, these reps. are ours regardless of the D. and the R. so hold them accountable for what they do regardless of what party they belong too.

The Democrat's accusation came TRUE when Bush and the Republican Congress passed Medicare D...an unfunded burden on taxpayers BUT, a BOON for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, ..too bad it F_CKED our elderly citizens and the poor...

This really sheds light on the heart of the problem Navy...there are two philosophies of governing today...the Democrats which is close to our founding father's beliefs and the Republicans, which would more closely match Mussolini's beliefs...

Our founding fathers created a government, not a corporate entity... Americans really need to educate themselves on what our founders thought of corporations and the LIMITS and restrictions they placed on them...and they also need to be fully aware and understand that the biggest threat to what our founders intended is the power corporations and special interests have gained since the horrible Supreme Court outcome of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

If you think for a moment that by posting the Part D bill I was somehow endorsing it, you would be wrong. To champion a program you don't have the means to pay for is complete lunacy in my humble opinion no matter who is proposing it. As for our founding fathers , thats a subject very near and dear to my heart. In fact I have another thread going on the subject. I will say this though, my view is that the founding fathers were very clear on their views that Govt. power should be limited to those spelled out in the constitution i.e. Madison, that is of course unless you read Hamilton, which I'm sure if your of the FRD mold then Hamiltons views would be more to your liking. No matter, all of the founding fathers had in mind that the Govt. existed at the will of the people and not the other way around. Commerce was an institution of good and an exercise of the people which under the guise of the framers was the responsibility of the Govt. to regulate and provide a means by which commerce would thrive. The so called " general welfare " view that Hamiton was so known for was not something shared by the father of the constitution Madison, or Jefferson. In fact this thinking can be traced back to Helvering v. Davis when the court sided with Hamiltons views. However in 1951 Justice Roberts commented that in order to make the decision on social security the court needed to go against the constitution in favor of popular sentiment.


You are somewhat correct in your assesment on corporations when it comes to the founding fathers. I say somewhat because I believe that it takes a leap of faith to assume that the founding fathers did not want corporations at all. In fact IMO most of the laws at the time reflected the founding fathers experience with the East India Company and thus you ended up with laws that put severe limits on them. In fact Jefferson was very much against large corporations having a huge influence on policy..

"The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of the lending institutions and moneyed incorporations."

That is exactly why, its my opinion that the founding fathers gave the power to regulate commerce to the Govt, which in my opnion they have done a piss poor job of and that goes for both parties. I cannot however agree that the founding fathers were against the formations of corporations all together or their success because that would run contrary to the notion of liberty in the hands of it's citizens that many so strongly favored.

Some of the restrictions on corporations during that time period were as follows..

1) Corporate charters were granted for fixed periods of time, usually between 10 and 40 years.

2) Corporate charters could be promptly revoked for violations of law or for causing public harm.
3) Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
4) Corporations could not own property that was not essential to the fulfilling of their chartered purpose.
5) Corporations could not own stock in other corporations.
6) The personal assets of corporate shareholders were not protected from the consequences of corpoate behavior.

It's clear that the founding fathers while not against commerce, were more in favor of the rights of the people not to be tread upon and those corporations be subject to the will of the people as the the Govt. was to be subject to the will of the people. We have come a long way from those notions in my opinion and I do believe that the founding fathers would be shocked at how much we have actually stepped on the original notion of a Govt. by the people and for the people.

 

[MaggieMae]

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"

I wonder if Radioman will see this.

 

[DiveCon]

The Democrat's accusation came TRUE when Bush and the Republican Congress passed Medicare D...an unfunded burden on taxpayers BUT, a BOON for insurance and pharmaceutical corporations, ..too bad it F_CKED our elderly citizens and the poor...

This really sheds light on the heart of the problem Navy...there are two philosophies of governing today...the Democrats which is close to our founding father's beliefs and the Republicans, which would more closely match Mussolini's beliefs...

Our founding fathers created a government, not a corporate entity... Americans really need to educate themselves on what our founders thought of corporations and the LIMITS and restrictions they placed on them...and they also need to be fully aware and understand that the biggest threat to what our founders intended is the power corporations and special interests have gained since the horrible Supreme Court outcome of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)

"Harry Truman once said, 'There are 14 or 15 million Americans who have the resources to have representatives in Washington to protect their interests, and that the interests of the great mass of the other people - the 150 or 160 million - is the responsibility of the president of the United States, and I propose to fulfill it.'"
President John F. Kennedy

uh, how the fuck is it an "unfunded burden" when it is funded by tax payer funds

You really need to think about what you just said... the Republicans didn't have any way to PAY for their GIFT to corporations known as Medicare D EXCEPT on our dime...no requirements of being deficit neutral or PAYGO rules applied...

uh, just who do you think will pay for Obamacare?

 

[DiveCon]

YouTube - Crowd Explodes When Arlen Specter Urges That We "Do This Fast"

I wonder if Radioman will see this.

well, if this memo can motivate that many to get out, the dems are in BIG trouble in 2010

 

[oreo]

So the asking of TOUGH questions of our elected representatives--is somehow WRONG? I guess liberals are just so used to the democrat get your vote rhetoric--We'll give you the moon & stars for FREE-paid for by the over 250K crowd-that they just can't stand it when conservatives see through thei B.S.

How could anyone possibly believe that 5% of this nation aka the over 250k crowd would be able to give the rest of us, or 95% a tax cut--while also being able to pay down the deficit--& provide health care to all & an additional 1 trillion dollars in Obama's new spending proposals? I mean even a 3rd grade math student would have figured something was not right about that. Yet 53 million Americans believed it. They voted for it.

"The chickens have come home to roost."