Gosnell

[

If the medical waste really was the moral equivlent of real babies with names and parents who gave a damn about them, do you really think for a moment that prosecutors would have cut a deal with him AFTER winning a conviction?

Hell, no.

Because those parents would have been on every TV Station demanding justice for their babies.

In short, the prosecutors didn't beleive their own premise.

No. YOU don't understand what happened. It is your ignorance of the legal procedure so you are making it up as you go along to fill in the gaps of what you don't know.

Again, if he killed three babies with names and parents, there is no way prosecutors EVER would have cut a deal with him. Especially not AFTER they won a conviction.

So either

1) They didn't really believe their own premise that medical waste = babies.

2) They didn't want an appellete judge who could read a law book to vacate his sentence.

Not at all. What is true is that you THINK that if he was really guilty the prosecutors would never have cut a deal with him. That's what's not true. This case was never in danger of being overturned on appeal because the babies weren't human beings but medical waste. In fact, if there was any scintilla of truth to an appellate judge vacating the sentence, Gosnell would never have cut a deal at all. This is because you don't understand legal procedure. The trier of FACT, the jury, found as a FACT that these were babies. No appellate judge could change that fact. Appeals are brought on legal procedure not facts. Any appellate court would have to accept the trier of fact's conclusion that these were babies. There was always a chance that Gosnell could appeal on the grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel. His attorney never put on a defense. But no appellate court could accept an argument that the jury got the facts wrong.

As to why the parties would cut a deal to exchange appellate rights for life instead of death, that's simple. Life on death row is much different than life in general population. Without knowing the details of the deal, and you don't know either, it is safe to assume that Gosnell got a cushy job in the prison hospital where he'll be allowed to take a shower more often than once a month for starters. He'll have prison yard privileges, be able to watch TV, get paid for what he does and be able to buy candy bars from the prison store. What the prosecutors get is saving the state a whole bunch of money not having to prepare oppositions to appeals. All the appeals, not just the one he's entitled to by virtue of getting a death sentence. Without knowing the details of this individual deal, Gosnell gave up every appellate right he had not just the appeals resulting from the death sentence.

I realize that it is probably utterly worthless to waste time trying to educate you, but I at least had to try.
 
There's another one in Texas that's been exposed.

Late term, gruesome baby killings, reported by his workers who until Gosnell thought what was going on was legal.

I think now that the path has been cleared for abortion mill whistle blowers to come forward they will.

I read about that abortion mill yesterday in stages. I couldn't read it all at once. Beyond horrid.

But the Joes of the world will continue to talk "about hangers and back alleys from thie 50's" despite all the evidence that this butchery is continuing daily right under every one's noses.

Yes, you have incompentent doctor in EVERY aspect of medicine.

But fret not, Republicans. They are usually working on poor and non-white people, so it isn't your problem.

Unless abortions are involved.

^^Joe living in bizzaro world again and pretending he cares about the poor minorities now...when he has been doing nothing but advocating the hacking up their wombs and unborn (while calling them liars because they dared to report abuses commited against them).

Meanwhile...who are the posters that care about these same women's health and well being? And don't want this to happen to others in the future, and actually want these monsters parading as doctors off the street?

Um...yeah. Save it Joe. :eusa_hand:
 
Last edited:
No. YOU don't understand what happened. It is your ignorance of the legal procedure so you are making it up as you go along to fill in the gaps of what you don't know.

Again, if he killed three babies with names and parents, there is no way prosecutors EVER would have cut a deal with him. Especially not AFTER they won a conviction.

So either

1) They didn't really believe their own premise that medical waste = babies.

2) They didn't want an appellete judge who could read a law book to vacate his sentence.

Not at all. What is true is that you THINK that if he was really guilty the prosecutors would never have cut a deal with him. That's what's not true. This case was never in danger of being overturned on appeal because the babies weren't human beings but medical waste. In fact, if there was any scintilla of truth to an appellate judge vacating the sentence, Gosnell would never have cut a deal at all. This is because you don't understand legal procedure. The trier of FACT, the jury, found as a FACT that these were babies. No appellate judge could change that fact. Appeals are brought on legal procedure not facts. Any appellate court would have to accept the trier of fact's conclusion that these were babies. There was always a chance that Gosnell could appeal on the grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel. His attorney never put on a defense. But no appellate court could accept an argument that the jury got the facts wrong.

As to why the parties would cut a deal to exchange appellate rights for life instead of death, that's simple. Life on death row is much different than life in general population. Without knowing the details of the deal, and you don't know either, it is safe to assume that Gosnell got a cushy job in the prison hospital where he'll be allowed to take a shower more often than once a month for starters. He'll have prison yard privileges, be able to watch TV, get paid for what he does and be able to buy candy bars from the prison store. What the prosecutors get is saving the state a whole bunch of money not having to prepare oppositions to appeals. All the appeals, not just the one he's entitled to by virtue of getting a death sentence. Without knowing the details of this individual deal, Gosnell gave up every appellate right he had not just the appeals resulting from the death sentence.

I realize that it is probably utterly worthless to waste time trying to educate you, but I at least had to try.

It's useless to try to educate joe..but there are other tools who are educable; noomi, for example. People who read these threads and come here thinking the lies like the ones joe spouts for the abortion industry are true...and who can read posts like yours that actually explain the reality.

Joe's only objective is to cause harm to women and kill babies. That's the whole of his universe.
 
I agree 100 % that the woman do share responsibility. But I blame the abortion industry more. Abortion is pushed as birth control on TV, by politicians, sex ed in school. Had the women been educated about the process and whats involved I dont think so many would want them. It is drilled into young women's heads that if they get pregnant their life is over, when its just not true. But they will never educate the woman about how abortion works . They need to protect their paycheck.
 
[

Not at all. What is true is that you THINK that if he was really guilty the prosecutors would never have cut a deal with him. That's what's not true. This case was never in danger of being overturned on appeal because the babies weren't human beings but medical waste. In fact, if there was any scintilla of truth to an appellate judge vacating the sentence, Gosnell would never have cut a deal at all. This is because you don't understand legal procedure. The trier of FACT, the jury, found as a FACT that these were babies. No appellate judge could change that fact. Appeals are brought on legal procedure not facts. Any appellate court would have to accept the trier of fact's conclusion that these were babies. There was always a chance that Gosnell could appeal on the grounds of ineffective assistance of counsel. His attorney never put on a defense. But no appellate court could accept an argument that the jury got the facts wrong.

As to why the parties would cut a deal to exchange appellate rights for life instead of death, that's simple. Life on death row is much different than life in general population. Without knowing the details of the deal, and you don't know either, it is safe to assume that Gosnell got a cushy job in the prison hospital where he'll be allowed to take a shower more often than once a month for starters. He'll have prison yard privileges, be able to watch TV, get paid for what he does and be able to buy candy bars from the prison store. What the prosecutors get is saving the state a whole bunch of money not having to prepare oppositions to appeals. All the appeals, not just the one he's entitled to by virtue of getting a death sentence. Without knowing the details of this individual deal, Gosnell gave up every appellate right he had not just the appeals resulting from the death sentence.

I realize that it is probably utterly worthless to waste time trying to educate you, but I at least had to try.

You dodged the question. Besides your bizarre beliefs (you really think they only let inmates on death row shower only once a month? REally?) what possible incentive was there for the PROSECUTORS to offer a deal? PA hasn't executed anyone in 14 years.

I mean, shit, can't be the money. They pissed away millions on this trial trying to get medical waste declared to be people to start with.

Again- the question I asked was, if he had been a crazy homeless person who killed three real babies in a daycare center, do you really think ANY prosecutor would have cut him a deal on the Death Penalty? Of course not, the parents would be on TV every night denouncing the deal.

The reality was, the prosecutors knew they could get sympathy from 12 mutants who couldn't get out of Jury duty by showing them enough pictures of medical waste, but appellet judges follow the law.
 
I agree 100 % that the woman do share responsibility. But I blame the abortion industry more. Abortion is pushed as birth control on TV, by politicians, sex ed in school. Had the women been educated about the process and whats involved I dont think so many would want them. It is drilled into young women's heads that if they get pregnant their life is over, when its just not true. But they will never educate the woman about how abortion works . They need to protect their paycheck.

I'm sorry, where is that done? I have to be honest with you, outside of political shows, (which I'm reasonably sure most poor women dont watch), which shows are promoting abortion as "birth control"?

Once again, I went to Catholic Schools back in the 1970's, where the nasty old Lesbians in Habits drilled these girls every day with dead fetus pictures, and all sorts of nasty propaganda.

And these same girls went off and had abortions when they found themselves knocked up because they didn't take birth control pills because the nuns taught them that was a sin, too.
 
[

^^Joe living in bizzaro world again and pretending he cares about the poor minorities now...when he has been doing nothing but advocating the hacking up their wombs and unborn (while calling them liars because they dared to report abuses commited against them).

Meanwhile...who are the posters that care about these same women's health and well being? And don't want this to happen to others in the future, and actually want these monsters parading as doctors off the street?

Um...yeah. Save it Joe. :eusa_hand:

Uh, you fools on the right are the ones who want to cut Medicaid, repeal ObamaCare, cut school lunches, cut welfare, throw as many poor people in jail as you possibly can.

The only reason you PRETEND to be against abortion is because it offends your sky pixie.

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Gosnell was an exception, but he's sort of typical of what the poor encounter. Because unlike other countries, we teach our doctors the reason to go into medicine is to get rich, not to help people.
 
I agree 100 % that the woman do share responsibility. But I blame the abortion industry more. Abortion is pushed as birth control on TV, by politicians, sex ed in school. Had the women been educated about the process and whats involved I dont think so many would want them. It is drilled into young women's heads that if they get pregnant their life is over, when its just not true. But they will never educate the woman about how abortion works . They need to protect their paycheck.

I'm sorry, where is that done? I have to be honest with you, outside of political shows, (which I'm reasonably sure most poor women dont watch), which shows are promoting abortion as "birth control"?

Once again, I went to Catholic Schools back in the 1970's, where the nasty old Lesbians in Habits drilled these girls every day with dead fetus pictures, and all sorts of nasty propaganda.

And these same girls went off and had abortions when they found themselves knocked up because they didn't take birth control pills because the nuns taught them that was a sin, too.

Its done in public schools, and in the media kids watch thees days. It was even done on the 70's despite your stupid nuns. Pregnant teens are depicted as heroins for going in getting abortions. Society teaches them that if they have the children, their lives are over, when its just not the case. In Sex Ed, abortion is pushed pretty hard as birth control. The woman who taught it even told the gal's they could come to her anytime for help. You had the female musicians ( if you can call them that) shilling for it to. Young women need to stop being told their lives are over if they end up pregnant. As for you, you or your girl friend noo mee dont have the balls to demonstrate with video what an abortion is and how its done. If this was demonstrated, I think you would have more young ladies searching the classified ads for adoption ads.
 
[

^^Joe living in bizzaro world again and pretending he cares about the poor minorities now...when he has been doing nothing but advocating the hacking up their wombs and unborn (while calling them liars because they dared to report abuses commited against them).

Meanwhile...who are the posters that care about these same women's health and well being? And don't want this to happen to others in the future, and actually want these monsters parading as doctors off the street?

Um...yeah. Save it Joe. :eusa_hand:

Uh, you fools on the right are the ones who want to cut Medicaid, repeal ObamaCare, cut school lunches, cut welfare, throw as many poor people in jail as you possibly can.

The only reason you PRETEND to be against abortion is because it offends your sky pixie.

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Gosnell was an exception, but he's sort of typical of what the poor encounter. Because unlike other countries, we teach our doctors the reason to go into medicine is to get rich, not to help people.

See, some times you say it pretty good. But this ^ is just proves not only that you are wrong, but you know your wrong. Weak deflection attempt man.
 
[

^^Joe living in bizzaro world again and pretending he cares about the poor minorities now...when he has been doing nothing but advocating the hacking up their wombs and unborn (while calling them liars because they dared to report abuses commited against them).

Meanwhile...who are the posters that care about these same women's health and well being? And don't want this to happen to others in the future, and actually want these monsters parading as doctors off the street?

Um...yeah. Save it Joe. :eusa_hand:

Uh, you fools on the right are the ones who want to cut Medicaid, repeal ObamaCare, cut school lunches, cut welfare, throw as many poor people in jail as you possibly can.

The only reason you PRETEND to be against abortion is because it offends your sky pixie.

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Gosnell was an exception, but he's sort of typical of what the poor encounter. Because unlike other countries, we teach our doctors the reason to go into medicine is to get rich, not to help people.

The reason to be against THIS kind of abortion, which is now the killing of human beings, is because it will eventually lead to legalized murder with a plausible reason. Not justification, just a plausible reason. If a man can legally kill a child on the delivery table, a boyfriend can murder the baby his girlfriend is carrying so he doesn't have to pay child support and can also kill his grandmother because he's tired of taking care of her and she will leave him a potload of money.
 
Bingo.

And in fact, they are making those arguments consecutively with this argument.
 
Its done in public schools, and in the media kids watch thees days. It was even done on the 70's despite your stupid nuns. Pregnant teens are depicted as heroins for going in getting abortions. Society teaches them that if they have the children, their lives are over, when its just not the case. In Sex Ed, abortion is pushed pretty hard as birth control. The woman who taught it even told the gal's they could come to her anytime for help. You had the female musicians ( if you can call them that) shilling for it to. Young women need to stop being told their lives are over if they end up pregnant. As for you, you or your girl friend noo mee dont have the balls to demonstrate with video what an abortion is and how its done. If this was demonstrated, I think you would have more young ladies searching the classified ads for adoption ads.

Okay, I have to call shennanigans on you here.

Can you please name a TV show or movie where a female protogonist had an abortion and was portrayed as a hero?

Frankly, the only one I could think of where abortion was talked about at all was Dallas in the early 1980's, where the character Lucy had one after a rape. I recall the show that followed it, Falcon Crest, had a whole plotline where a female protoganist had been raped, was over 40 and still decided to keep the baby because it MIGHT have been her husband's.

As far as an abortion being unpleaseant to watch...yeah. So are most surgical procedures...
 
[

The reason to be against THIS kind of abortion, which is now the killing of human beings, is because it will eventually lead to legalized murder with a plausible reason. Not justification, just a plausible reason. If a man can legally kill a child on the delivery table, a boyfriend can murder the baby his girlfriend is carrying so he doesn't have to pay child support and can also kill his grandmother because he's tired of taking care of her and she will leave him a potload of money.

Ah, the old "Slippery Slope" argument.

You see, this is where I'm fucking old and shit, but I've been hearing the "Slippery Slope" argument for 30 years now.

I recall back in the 1980's, there was this case of some redneck whose wife just had a severely retarded baby, and while the doctors were all rushing around to try to save it, he dashed its brains out.

A jury convicted the shit out of him. Even people I knew who were pro-choice supported the decision.

The thing here was, these were abortions that went wrong. These fetuses were injected with a drug intended to kill them. Left to their own devices, they would have expired. Gosnell or people working for him who got sweetheart deals, just expedited the process.

Throw him in jail for being an awful doctor? Absolutely. Give Civil rights to medical waste? Not so fast.
 
[

^^Joe living in bizzaro world again and pretending he cares about the poor minorities now...when he has been doing nothing but advocating the hacking up their wombs and unborn (while calling them liars because they dared to report abuses commited against them).

Meanwhile...who are the posters that care about these same women's health and well being? And don't want this to happen to others in the future, and actually want these monsters parading as doctors off the street?

Um...yeah. Save it Joe. :eusa_hand:

Uh, you fools on the right are the ones who want to cut Medicaid, repeal ObamaCare, cut school lunches, cut welfare, throw as many poor people in jail as you possibly can.

The only reason you PRETEND to be against abortion is because it offends your sky pixie.

Abortion is safer than childbirth. Gosnell was an exception, but he's sort of typical of what the poor encounter. Because unlike other countries, we teach our doctors the reason to go into medicine is to get rich, not to help people.

The reason to be against THIS kind of abortion, which is now the killing of human beings, is because it will eventually lead to legalized murder with a plausible reason. Not justification, just a plausible reason. If a man can legally kill a child on the delivery table, a boyfriend can murder the baby his girlfriend is carrying so he doesn't have to pay child support and can also kill his grandmother because he's tired of taking care of her and she will leave him a potload of money.

This is as stupid as claiming that if we allow gay people to marry, we will have to allow pedophiles to marry children.
 
What I would find real disturbing, is this culture of "choice" as it relates to children. Now what if you have a child, and that child asks "Did you want me? Was I just a "choice" mommy?"
 
What I would find real disturbing, is this culture of "choice" as it relates to children. Now what if you have a child, and that child asks "Did you want me? Was I just a "choice" mommy?"

I watched a show last night about women who didn't want children. They also interviewed a woman who said that despite having two kids of her own, she regretted it - calling children 'vicious, cruel dwarfs'. Her two teenagers live with her, and she said they were not the centre of her world, and that once they moved out, she would be glad.
Her kids refused to be interviewed.

Now a woman like that should never have had kids. But that is what will happen if women are not permitted to have abortions - they will have kids they never wanted, and will resent their children, and how does that make the kids feel, knowing their mother never wanted them?
 
What I would find real disturbing, is this culture of "choice" as it relates to children. Now what if you have a child, and that child asks "Did you want me? Was I just a "choice" mommy?"

working on the assumption a child really thinks like this... (They don't. Children assume until they are teenagers the whole world revolves around them.)

Most adults realize that they were a choice their parents made.
 

Forum List

Back
Top