"Government" is Not the Problem.

[AVG-JOE]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

We're going to have to agree to disagree again Bud....

I can't in good intellectual conscience accept your premise that any rights described in The Constitution are being upheld or defended by anyone or anything that can be described as a god.

You can count on your imaginary friend to protect your rights and I'll keep trusting in the US Military.

Beer? ​

 

[easyt65]

The government that has violated the Constitution and law, has been found in Contempt of Court, and still defies court orders is not the problem?

 

[AVG-JOE]

If your right to keep weapons in your house is based on the Second Amendment to The US Constitution, you have weapons because you have permission from "The Government".

Will the liberals ever get tired of repeating this lie over and over?

Probably not, since they haven't anything else.

If your right to keep weapons in your house is based on the Second Amendment to The US Constitution,

It isn't.

I had that right long before the 2nd amendment (or the Constitution) was written.

Next?

Also had the right to own a slave before the constitution was written. Amen to freedom, right?!

Americans had rights to own slaves for more than fifty years after The Constitution was adopted.

I said before, the freedoms and ideals laid out in The Constitution remain a goal. We're closer than the men who drafted the dream of "America" were when they first collected taxes under the authority of document but we have a long way to go.

the constitution can be amended, but by the people, not the government. That's the part you seem to be missing.

What did I say that makes you think that I don't understand that there is an amendment process for The Constitution?

Specifically.

 

[Boss]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

We're going to have to agree to disagree again Bud....

I can't in good intellectual conscience accept your premise that any rights described in The Constitution are being upheld or defended by anyone or anything that can be described as a god.

You can count on your imaginary friend to protect your rights and I'll keep trusting in the US Military.

Beer? ​

Sorry you don't believe in God... that has nothing to do with the foundation of our nation and basis of our Constitution. You are free to have any religious belief you want or no religious belief... that is one of your inalienable rights endowed by our Creator.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

 

[Divine Wind]

Those words are synonymous.

_________________

`​

Trolling or just fucking around?

 

[S.J.]

you mean SJ? yeah, I know.

but, for the record, the court parses words, too.

Which is total valid when making a legal argument... If thats what you two were doing then I retract my statement. I thought this was more of an ideological/moral argument, where the word games get real old.

he was claiming that the legislature is not charged with the providing for the general welfare of the citizenry and claims some distinction based upon the word "promote" as used in the constitution.

given the caselaw, (however limited on the subject of the general welfare clause) I pointed out it was a distinction without a difference.

I agree... To promote entails providing something... What that something is should be determined by our elected leaders

Wrong. Follow the law, not the twisting of meaning by politicians.
the definition of promote
the definition of provide

Thank you for that, now I understand... With this new found knowledge I have a proposal. Cut all welfare funding and in its place we can open congress with a round of applause and supportive statements from our government leaders encouraging the poor to find a job, shelter and hot meal. Prayers for our elderly to feel better from their medical ailments, and a salute to our vets for all they've sacrificed.

Hows that sound to you?!

Don't lump veterans in with the lazy parasites who suck off the government teat and never do a damn thing for their country. And don't try to be funny, it doesn't work for you.

 

[Boss]

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Question for AVG-Schmoe...

Where do "Blessings" come from?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

We're going to have to agree to disagree again Bud....

I can't in good intellectual conscience accept your premise that any rights described in The Constitution are being upheld or defended by anyone or anything that can be described as a god.

You can count on your imaginary friend to protect your rights and I'll keep trusting in the US Military.

Beer? ​

Sorry you don't believe in God... that has nothing to do with the foundation of our nation and basis of our Constitution. You are free to have any religious belief you want or no religious belief... that is one of your inalienable rights endowed by our Creator.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

That's what I just said

 

[AVG-JOE]

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Question for AVG-Schmoe...

Where do "Blessings" come from?

Hard work and personal responsibility.

 

[Divine Wind]

Hard work and personal responsibility.

Which, according to you, are only rewarded if Big Brother deems you worthy.

 

[Boss]

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Question for AVG-Schmoe...

Where do "Blessings" come from?

Hard work and personal responsibility.

No, that would be earnings.

Blessing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A blessing (also used to refer to bestowing of such) is the infusion of something withholiness, spiritual redemption, or divine will.

 

[Boss]

That's what I just said

That's totally the opposite of what you just said.

 

[bripat9643]

That's the trouble with liberals. They think freedom comes from the government instead of the other way around.

Government is a tool.

Freedom comes from he who has the keys to the military.



Now kneel and thank your preferred Deity that you were born when and where you were and not during The Spanish Inquisition.

​

It's interesting that you believe that every government has the legitimate authority to dispose of us as it sees fit, but you prefer to live under one where that authority has been severely constrained.

It's only "interesting" if you don't understand the effective tool that government could become under The US Constitution and give in to a fear of government that is unwarranted because of the protections spelled out for us in the document we all agree to be governed by.

There is nothing unwarranted about fearing an entity that has the legal right and the ability to kill you and take everything you own.

 

[Boss]

...the protections spelled out for us in the document we all agree to be governed by.

Speak for yourself. I didn't agree to be governed by anything. I have the inalienable right to self-govern. The Constitution is the initial outline for self-governance. Your failure to comprehend that is not my problem.

If some of the more recent rulings of our progressive SCOTUS had been made back in the day, our forefathers would have NEVER ratified the Constitution.

 

[bripat9643]

That's the trouble with liberals. They think freedom comes from the government instead of the other way around.

Government is a tool.

Freedom comes from he who has the keys to the military.



Now kneel and thank your preferred Deity that you were born when and where you were and not during The Spanish Inquisition.

​

It's interesting that you believe that every government has the legitimate authority to dispose of us as it sees fit, but you prefer to live under one where that authority has been severely constrained.

It's only "interesting" if you don't understand the effective tool that government could become under The US Constitution and give in to a fear of government that is unwarranted because of the protections spelled out for us in the document we all agree to be governed by.

When did I agree to be governed by the Constitution?

 

[CMyers]

"Government" is Not the Problem."

Soon it will be less of a problem than it is now.

Dude!

Ya got your crystal balls back, eh?

Sometimes it's more about timing and placement than depth of perception.

This is one of those times.

 

[edthecynic]

maybe it's the feckless Republican leadership cowering in the corner afraid to confront Obama?

Geezzz, you DittoTards will mindlessly parrot any bullshit your MessiahRushie feeds you!!!!!

 

[Slade3200]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

The only God-given right is your right to protect yourself and your family. Guns have nothing to do with it. The government defines what "arms" are and also which are acceptable for our citizens to sell/own/carry

 

[Dale Smith]

...the protections spelled out for us in the document we all agree to be governed by.

Speak for yourself. I didn't agree to be governed by anything. I have the inalienable right to self-govern. The Constitution is the initial outline for self-governance. Your failure to comprehend that is not my problem.

If some of the more recent rulings of our progressive SCOTUS had been made back in the day, our forefathers would have NEVER ratified the Constitution.

...the protections spelled out for us in the document we all agree to be governed by.

Speak for yourself. I didn't agree to be governed by anything. I have the inalienable right to self-govern. The Constitution is the initial outline for self-governance. Your failure to comprehend that is not my problem.

If some of the more recent rulings of our progressive SCOTUS had been made back in the day, our forefathers would have NEVER ratified the Constitution.

Here are some home truths for the masses and this info is being freely given after thousands of hours of research and due diligence. Our "gubermint" is a for profit venture and it goes all the way back to the Act of 1871 when we stopped being the united states for America to being the "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" and "yes" the all caps is significant as it applies to admiralty law which took us from "Common Law" to "admiralty law" and I can back up everything I am contending here. The Act of 1871 was just one step towards the debt slavery system we are currently under. With the assassination of Lincoln and the killing of the greenback after the Civil War, America was broke and the international bankers were not about to extend credit unless they had something in it for themselves so the organic constitution was kicked to the curb and they wrote a corporate charter constitution that included the 14th amendment that abolished involuntary servitude....note that..... because it means that voluntary servitude is fine because it comes into play in a very big way later down the line.

USA.INC under went an industrial revolution with big time monopolies established by agents of the House of Rothschild....the Rockefeller family, JP Morgan, DuPont family, Carnegie, Ford, Harriman all worked in conjunction to control all industry and control of production and killed all competition...this is a fact. They created financial crisis because of the massive wealth that they possessed but the biggest plum on the tree left to be plucked was a central bank that controlled the nation's currency. They concocted bank runs in 1907 and 1910 by using rumors that a bank was about to become insolvent which caused a run on the banks that collapsed them...this is the Hegelian Dialectic.......cause a crisis and exploit the emotional outcry and then propose a solution to the very problem YOU created that benefits your cause. There was a meeting at Jekyll Island in Georgia where agents of the House of Rothschild came up with a banking bill for bankers written by bankers that Nelson Aldrich, (a Rothschild agent) would push this through after two attempts and was done on December 23rd, 1913 when most of Congress were on their way home for Christmas but enough and paid for congressman were around to pass this piece of legislation that turned over our money supply to the international bankers and Woodrow Wilson signed off on it because that was why he was put in the WH to begin with . President Taft was against a central bank but the banksters pulled Teddy Roosevelt into the race as a third party candidate under the "Bull Moose" party that stole votes away from Taft and allowed Wilson into office.

Wilson's handler was a man named Colonel Edward Mandell House, a British agent, 33rd freemason and Illuminati member controlled Wilson and unabashedly laid down the plans for the system of "pledging" that we are currently under. Here are his words......
[Very] soon, every American will be required to register their biological property in a national system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging. By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will effect our security as a chargeback for our fiat paper currency. Every American will be forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living. They will be our chattel, and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions.


Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, forever to remain economic slaves through taxation, secured by their pledges. They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debt to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges. This will inevitably reap to us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor to this fraud which we will call “Social Insurance.” Without realizing it, every American will insure us for any loss we may incur and in this manner, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and, we will employ the high office of the President of our dummy corporation to foment this plot against America.”

And they accomplished that with the orchestrated crash of the stock market in 1929 which lead to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 which lead to the gold confiscation of every citizen under penalty of imprisonment and a 10,000 dollar fine. They had to turn in their REAL money in exchange for debt notes printed by the Federal Reserve foreign owned banksters that control our monetary supply to this day. But alas, stealing our REAL money was not enough for them...they needed something more as collateral so FDR pledged our labor in order to make us surety against the "debt" and the birth certificate printed on bond paper came into affect because under the UCC, anything can be monetized and used as a negotiable instrument. There was just one problem...how could "da gubermint" make the sheeple turn over their situs trust and make "da gubermint" the trustee of their bond/ situs trust? Easy...by having them sign up for social security which made "da gubermint" trustees over their situs trust while making them a de-facto employee of "da gubermint". Seriously, you just do not know how far down the rabbit hole this goes and how you have become an indentured debt slave under this UCC (Universal Commercial Code) system and how badly you have been abused and how your labor has moved a useless fiat currency around using your sweat equity.... because if you did? And If you knew the things that I do? You would be marching on this corporate entity disguised as a legitimate governmental body with pitch forks and torches or whatever means you had because you would be just that pissed off......I kn

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

The only God-given right is your right to protect yourself and your family. Guns have nothing to do with it. The government defines what "arms" are and also which are acceptable for our citizens to sell/own/carry

This corporate "gubermint" does not decide for me as to how I am allowed to protect me or mine........not gonna happen and many are waking up to that very salient fact....which explains all these false flag and staged "mass shooting events"..... funny how gun owners double down instead of caving in whenever one of the phony events takes place......lots of people are "awake"....I suggest that you do the same because some bad shit is heading our way.

 

[bripat9643]

Please point out how that post indicates in any way that I said that the government came before The Constitution.

I said that The Constitution IS the government.

You adamantly insisted it was the government who gave us permission to own firearms.

The guns in your house are there because you have permission to have them from the government.

And The Constitution is the contract under which we are governed. Permission from "the government".

Now, you are still trying to wiggle around and make an incorrect point that you failed making the first time. NO... the Constitution is NOT the government. The Constitution established the government.

Well no shit, Sherlock!

Two gold stars and a cookie for you.

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

Somewhere between a bb gun and an aircraft carrier loaded with thermonuclear war heads is a list of weapons that an average American Joe like me can own and someone is enforcing that list. I've been looking for a nuke (for defensive purposes ) and they are a BITCH to come by.


Boss, I guarantee you that you and Crusader Frank are NOT preventing me from acquiring a nuke, so... by process of elimination, it must be "the government".



We, The Peeps.

Enforced by The FBI and The United States Marine Corps, among others.

The US Constitution: Awesome on paper, but messy when you get down to actually dividing up the resources and protecting those efforts by it's standards.


​

The Constitution establishes the government which tells you which weapons you can and can't own.

No sir.

The same Constitution which establishes the government and specifically limits it's power, also affirms my god-given right to own a gun which can't be alienated. The government has no such authority in it's enumerated powers to tell me what kind of gun I can own. We The People have the option through our inalienable right to self-govern, to establish boundaries on what kind of guns we can own.

The only God-given right is your right to protect yourself and your family. Guns have nothing to do with it. The government defines what "arms" are and also which are acceptable for our citizens to sell/own/carry

Bullshit. If government has that power, then the 2nd Amendment is meaningless.