"Government" is Not the Problem.

[Divine Wind]

Which part of our nation was ever conservative?? I think if you look back you will see that we have been one of the most progressive nations in history

Conservatives aka traditionalists, Loyalists, Tories) have been around since the Revolution. About 15-20% of the population. That doesn't mean the rest were pro-Revolution, just that 15-20% were "conservative".

 

[P@triot]

Wow man, you sure have a boner for the constitution...

You're damn right I do. The real question is - why don't you? Many people died to provide us with that document. You're pissing on their graves and disrespecting them by showing indifference to that document and trading in their sacrifices for your greed.

Funny how you consider yourself a patriot and me an communist despite the fact that you are incessantly dogging on our government, calling our president a criminal and spouting your ignorant banter all over this board.

You've got that right - when our government violates the U.S. Constitution, I'm going to criticize them. That's exactly what a responsible citizen does.

 

[Slade3200]

I take care of my family and donate time and money (over $20K so far this year) to charities in my community... But do I have faith that everybody will do the same? No.

Bingo! Liberalism at its core. In a nutshell - you don't believe people will do what you want them to do so you ask government to force them to do it. And when one has to resort to force to get what they want, they are unquestionably on the wrong side of history.

what do you think I'm asking the government to force people to do? Of course I advocate for community programs and neighborhood watches and PTA involvement with schools... But the government is also responsible for and best equipped to provide infrastructure, law enforcement, fire control, support for veterans, the elderly, the poor, disaster relief etc etc etc... We would not be able to do or afford these things if everybody was out for themselves. We as a collective society decide the rules, investments, and policies that build, protect and grow our country. All of this is in the constitution. I don't know what you are smoking.

 

[Slade3200]

Wow man, you sure have a boner for the constitution...

You're damn right I do. The real question is - why don't you? Many people died to provide us with that document. You're pissing on their graves and disrespecting them by showing indifference to that document and trading in their sacrifices for your greed.

Funny how you consider yourself a patriot and me an communist despite the fact that you are incessantly dogging on our government, calling our president a criminal and spouting your ignorant banter all over this board.

You've got that right - when our government violates the U.S. Constitution, I'm going to criticize them. That's exactly what a responsible citizen does.

Nobody is violating the constitution dumbshit. The constitution sets standards but gives us the authority to make laws, govern, enforce and evolve our policy to best suit our society. That's the beauty of the constitution. I respect the hell out of it I just have a different interpretation as you. Your "pissing on the constitution" rant is tired and old. You seem to lack understanding of what's really going on

 

[P@triot]

what do you think I'm asking the government to force people to do?

I know what you're asking the government to force people to do - unconstitutionally hand over their earnings to people like you.

Of course I advocate for community programs and neighborhood watches and PTA involvement with schools... But the government is also responsible for and best equipped to provide infrastructure, law enforcement, fire control, support for veterans, the elderly, the poor, disaster relief etc etc etc... We would not be able to do or afford these things if everybody was out for themselves.

The federal government does not provide for fire departments or police departments junior. Just another example of your ignorance of both the U.S. Constitution and how your government functions. Those are handled by local municipalities genius. And we discuss federal government here on USMB because we're all spread out across the nation and cannot discuss state and local governments since we live in different areas.

We as a collective society decide the rules, investments, and policies that build, protect and grow our country.

We are not a "collective society". Never have been, never will be. You can take your communism and move to Russia with it junior. The U.S. was built on the individual. Read the Constitution - you won't find the "collective" listed anywhere.

All of this is in the constitution. I don't know what you are smoking.

No - really - it doesn't. But you wouldn't know that because you've never read it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Problem?? Do you even know what real world problems are?? As you sit in front of you own personal computer bitching on a political forum. I call them "First world problems" and they much different than what most people in this world have to deal with.

We are so damn spoiled in this country, the shit we complain about baffles me sometimes.

Oh....oh....oh...I do! I do!

Real world problems is the government (at the demand of libtards) stripping me of basic liberties and guaranteed rights. That is a far bigger problem that a bad economy, a food shortage, or no healthcare. The problem is - libtards are too stupid to know it. They have freedom handed to them on a silver fuck'n platter and as such, they don't appreciate it. All they care about are free benefits - no matter how much they suck.

We live in a nation of laws with the ability to make laws as our society see's fit. The price of security and protection and prosperity mean you abide by and vote to evolve the laws to better our society. You can move to Africa and start a tribe and do whatever the fuck you want. In this country we don't let the savages and bully's take over... We do our best to protect each other, protect our communities, and provide equal opportunity to everybody who shares that vision. And we protect our poor, elderly and mentally ill and do our best to educate our future generations so they can continue our countries prosperity. From the sound of your statements it seems like you have a delusional view of the world... A pretty sad one.

Have you ever heard of The Constitution?

I forget....which comes first in government schooling..

"There is no God"

or

"There is no Constitution"

 

[Slade3200]

what do you think I'm asking the government to force people to do?

I know what you're asking the government to force people to do - unconstitutionally hand over their earnings to people like you.

Of course I advocate for community programs and neighborhood watches and PTA involvement with schools... But the government is also responsible for and best equipped to provide infrastructure, law enforcement, fire control, support for veterans, the elderly, the poor, disaster relief etc etc etc... We would not be able to do or afford these things if everybody was out for themselves.

The federal government does not provide for fire departments or police departments junior. Just another example of your ignorance of both the U.S. Constitution and how your government functions. Those are handled by local municipalities genius. And we discuss federal government here on USMB because we're all spread out across the nation and cannot discuss state and local governments since we live in different areas.

We as a collective society decide the rules, investments, and policies that build, protect and grow our country.

We are not a "collective society". Never have been, never will be. You can take your communism and move to Russia with it junior. The U.S. was built on the individual. Read the Constitution - you won't find the "collective" listed anywhere.

All of this is in the constitution. I don't know what you are smoking.

No - really - it doesn't. But you wouldn't know that because you've never read it.

There's the presumptive asshole again... Where to start... Are you claiming that taxation is unconstitutional? Do I really need to point to the chapter and verse or can we agree that you are speaking out of your ass?
General welfare, I know youve heard it.... Freedom of speech, religion, right to bare arms, etc etc all rights awarded to the collective, to all Americans.

Nice try with the fire dept point, but you made the statement that we don't need government for anything, we should do it all ourselves.

I'm not a big government person... I like small government but I also understand its purpose and why it does some of the things that it does. You gotta get off that right wing fringe if you ever want to be taken seriously.

 

[P@triot]

Nobody is violating the constitution dumbshit.

Seriously man - you're ignorance of the U.S. Constitution is both astounding and appalling.

• The NSA currently intercepts every single phone call, text, email, keystroke, etc. of each and every American without a warrant. And sadly, this isn't new. This has been going on for many decades. Operation CHAOS and Project MINARET are just two examples.

• On November 21, 2014 Barack Obama issued two Presidential Memorandums granting amnesty. He altered our immigration laws and only the legislative branch can create, alter, or abolish law. Obama is part of the executive branch, stupid, and must enforce all laws.

• The federal government is explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers by the U.S. Constitution and healthcare is not one of them. Therefore, the federal government creating ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. legislation is completely unconstitutional.

Nobody is violating the constitution, uh genius? I could go on all day but this is enough to show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[P@triot]

Nice try with the fire dept point, but you made the statement that we don't need government for anything, we should do it all ourselves.

I never made that statement. Pretty sad that you need to resort to lying.

 

[P@triot]

General welfare, I know youve heard it....

Um....the "General Welfare" clause is restricted to the 18 enumerated powers, genius. It is not a blank check for the government to exercise whatever power they desire. If it were - there wouldn't even be a U.S. Constitution. The entire point of the document was to outline the rolls and responsibilities of government and restrict their powers. Here is Thomas Jefferson himself citing as much....

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)

That's pretty damn clear. They have no power to "provide for the general welfare" outside of their 18 enumerated powers. Did you drop out of high school? Or did you simply skip government to smoke pot in the bathroom? By the way - I included the exact date so you can more easily verify that Thomas Jefferson did in fact go on record to clarify the General Welfare Clause. That is, if it's not too much work for you to Google something (which it appears to be in every case).

 

[P@triot]

I'm not a big government person... I like small government but I also understand its purpose and why it does some of the things that it does.

No, you don't. Not at all. You've unequivocally proven that you have no idea why government exists.

 

[Slade3200]

Nobody is violating the constitution dumbshit.

Seriously man - you're ignorance of the U.S. Constitution is both astounding and appalling.

• The NSA currently intercepts every single phone call, text, email, keystroke, etc. of each and every American without a warrant. And sadly, this isn't new. This has been going on for many decades. Operation CHAOS and Project MINARET are just two examples.

• On November 21, 2014 Barack Obama issued two Presidential Memorandums granting amnesty. He altered our immigration laws and only the legislative branch can create, alter, or abolish law. Obama is part of the executive branch, stupid, and must enforce all laws.

• The federal government is explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers by the U.S. Constitution and healthcare is not one of them. Therefore, the federal government creating ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. legislation is completely unconstitutional.

Nobody is violating the constitution, uh genius? I could go on all day but this is enough to show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

We have multiple branches of government that make laws, pushes policy and follows a great system of checks and balances. The constitution is the foundation on which the house is built but newsflash, it's ok to propose an unconstitutional law, we have a system that will rule on that. It's because of this system that women can now vote and black men can live free, both things that were once permitted by law

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Nobody is violating the constitution dumbshit.

Seriously man - you're ignorance of the U.S. Constitution is both astounding and appalling.

• The NSA currently intercepts every single phone call, text, email, keystroke, etc. of each and every American without a warrant. And sadly, this isn't new. This has been going on for many decades. Operation CHAOS and Project MINARET are just two examples.

• On November 21, 2014 Barack Obama issued two Presidential Memorandums granting amnesty. He altered our immigration laws and only the legislative branch can create, alter, or abolish law. Obama is part of the executive branch, stupid, and must enforce all laws.

• The federal government is explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers by the U.S. Constitution and healthcare is not one of them. Therefore, the federal government creating ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. legislation is completely unconstitutional.

Nobody is violating the constitution, uh genius? I could go on all day but this is enough to show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

We have multiple branches of government that make laws, pushes policy and follows a great system of checks and balances. The constitution is the foundation on which the house is built but newsflash, it's ok to propose an unconstitutional law, we have a system that will rule on that. It's because of this system that women can now vote and black men can live free, both things that were once permitted by law

Wait, they're not permitted now? When did this happen?

 

[Slade3200]

General welfare, I know youve heard it....

Um....the "General Welfare" clause is restricted to the 18 enumerated powers, genius. It is not a blank check for the government to exercise whatever power they desire. If it were - there wouldn't even be a U.S. Constitution. The entire point of the document was to outline the rolls and responsibilities of government and restrict their powers. Here is Thomas Jefferson himself citing as much....

“Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated; and that, as it was never meant they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action” - Thomas Jefferson (June 6, 1817)

That's pretty damn clear. They have no power to "provide for the general welfare" outside of their 18 enumerated powers. Did you drop out of high school? Or did you simply skip government to smoke pot in the bathroom? By the way - I included the exact date so you can more easily verify that Thomas Jefferson did in fact go on record to clarify the General Welfare Clause. That is, if it's not too much work for you to Google something (which it appears to be in every case).

It's a good quote and I'm fine with the ideology. I also understand that we no longer live in the 1800s. Our world has changed a lot since then and so should our policy and government. The people have the power to grow or shrink the government as they see fit. We have the ability to do whatever we want, we can even change the constitution if we want, which we've done several times. I appreciate the conservative voices, I think they are necessary and beneficial... Same goes for the liberals. My problem is when the absolutists close their minds and ears to anything other than their ideology. The low blows and easy claims of "criminal". It has taken us down an ugly path and does nothing to help or progress our political system. It does quite the opposite.

 

[P@triot]

It's a good quote and I'm fine with the ideology. I also understand that we no longer live in the 1800s. Our world has changed a lot since then and so should our policy and government.

Then you have to legally amend the U.S. Constitution. You don't get to just arbitrarily decide that the law doesn't apply because it's not the 1800's anymore.

The people have the power to grow or shrink the government as they see fit. We have the ability to do whatever we want

Um....no....no they can't. You continue to illustrate your complete and total lack of knowledge regarding the U.S. Constitution. You can't do shit "as you see fit". You are explicitly restricted by the law.

we can even change the constitution if we want, which we've done several times.

Yeah...if you legally amend it. Which hasn't been done. There has been no amendment making healthcare the responsibility of the U.S. government. There has been no amendment granting the executive branch the power to create, alter, or eliminate laws. There has been no amendment granting the federal government the power to domestically spy on citizens without a warrant.

I appreciate the conservative voices, I think they are necessary and beneficial... Same goes for the liberals. My problem is when the absolutists close their minds and ears to anything other than their ideology. The low blows and easy claims of "criminal". It has taken us down an ugly path and does nothing to help or progress our political system. It does quite the opposite.

What you call "closed-minded absolutists" a rational person calls "obeying the law". Your position is as absurd and ridiculous as someone making the case that laws against rape no longer apply, are outdated, and that it's ok to rape women since births world-wide (and especially in the U.S.) are down to historic lows (and that is a fact - not an hypothetical example). No rational person in their right mind would say it's ok for men to start raping women because births are down. And likewise, no rational person in their right mind would stay it's ok to violate the U.S. Constitution because we don't live in the 1800's anymore.

The saddest part is - you don't even know why government exists. If you did, you would realize that it doesn't matter if it's 1700, 1800, or 5400 - the function of the federal government remains the same. Guess what genius - they had health problems in the 1700's too you know. Yet they didn't implement Medicare, Medicaid, or Obamacare. There is a reason for that. You're just too ignorant to understand it. You refused to study history, read the U.S. Constitution or original writings from the founders. You're clueless. Your posts prove it.

 

[P@triot]

We have multiple branches of government that make laws, pushes policy and follows a great system of checks and balances. The constitution is the foundation on which the house is built but newsflash, it's ok to propose an unconstitutional law, we have a system that will rule on that. It's because of this system that women can now vote and black men can live free, both things that were once permitted by law

Wow. I mean....just....wow. What an ignorant comment. Is it ok to violate the law and commit a murder since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that? Is it ok to violate the law and commit a rape since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that? Is it ok to violate the law and molest children since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that?

You're a certified idiot who can't accept when the facts prove he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. A mature adult would simply say "you're right - I didn't realize what the U.S. Constitution said or how our system of government functioned".

 

[Slade3200]

It's a good quote and I'm fine with the ideology. I also understand that we no longer live in the 1800s. Our world has changed a lot since then and so should our policy and government.

Then you have to legally amend the U.S. Constitution. You don't get to just arbitrarily decide that the law doesn't apply because it's not the 1800's anymore.

The people have the power to grow or shrink the government as they see fit. We have the ability to do whatever we want

Um....no....no they can't. You continue to illustrate your complete and total lack of knowledge regarding the U.S. Constitution. You can't do shit "as you see fit". You are explicitly restricted by the law.

we can even change the constitution if we want, which we've done several times.

Yeah...if you legally amend it. Which hasn't been done. There has been no amendment making healthcare the responsibility of the U.S. government. There has been no amendment granting the executive branch the power to create, alter, or eliminate laws. There has been no amendment granting the federal government the power to domestically spy on citizens without a warrant.

I appreciate the conservative voices, I think they are necessary and beneficial... Same goes for the liberals. My problem is when the absolutists close their minds and ears to anything other than their ideology. The low blows and easy claims of "criminal". It has taken us down an ugly path and does nothing to help or progress our political system. It does quite the opposite.

What you call "closed-minded absolutists" a rational person calls "obeying the law". Your position is as absurd and ridiculous as someone making the case that laws against rape no longer apply, are outdated, and that it's ok to rape women since births world-wide (and especially in the U.S.) are down to historic lows (and that is a fact - not an hypothetical example). No rational person in their right mind would say it's ok for men to start raping women because births are down. And likewise, no rational person in their right mind would stay it's ok to violate the U.S. Constitution because we don't live in the 1800's anymore.

The saddest part is - you don't even know why government exists. If you did, you would realize that it doesn't matter if it's 1700, 1800, or 5400 - the function of the federal government remains the same. Guess what genius - they had health problems in the 1700's too you know. Yet they didn't implement Medicare, Medicaid, or Obamacare. There is a reason for that. You're just too ignorant to understand it. You refused to study history, read the U.S. Constitution or original writings from the founders. You're clueless. Your posts prove it.

Ok man, you lost me at that pathetic rape statement... I'm done with you. Keep living in the past and feeding that bitterness. I hate to agree with assholes but I do agree with some of your statements on the purpose of government and think it belongs in the argument. But you are missing a big part of the puzzle. I've said my piece, I've listened to yours, acknowledged some good points, but for now I'm done. Work on opening up that mind and you might get more engaging discussions

 

[Slade3200]

We have multiple branches of government that make laws, pushes policy and follows a great system of checks and balances. The constitution is the foundation on which the house is built but newsflash, it's ok to propose an unconstitutional law, we have a system that will rule on that. It's because of this system that women can now vote and black men can live free, both things that were once permitted by law

Wow. I mean....just....wow. What an ignorant comment. Is it ok to violate the law and commit a murder since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that? Is it ok to violate the law and commit a rape since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that? Is it ok to violate the law and molest children since we have a system (evidence, indictment, arrest, and trial) to rule on that?

You're a certified idiot who can't accept when the facts prove he didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. A mature adult would simply say "you're right - I didn't realize what the U.S. Constitution said or how our system of government functioned".

It's pretty simple but You obviously don't get it and I don't have the time or desire to explain it to you. Good day

 

[P@triot]

It's a good quote and I'm fine with the ideology. I also understand that we no longer live in the 1800s. Our world has changed a lot since then and so should our policy and government.

Then you have to legally amend the U.S. Constitution. You don't get to just arbitrarily decide that the law doesn't apply because it's not the 1800's anymore.

The people have the power to grow or shrink the government as they see fit. We have the ability to do whatever we want

Um....no....no they can't. You continue to illustrate your complete and total lack of knowledge regarding the U.S. Constitution. You can't do shit "as you see fit". You are explicitly restricted by the law.

we can even change the constitution if we want, which we've done several times.

Yeah...if you legally amend it. Which hasn't been done. There has been no amendment making healthcare the responsibility of the U.S. government. There has been no amendment granting the executive branch the power to create, alter, or eliminate laws. There has been no amendment granting the federal government the power to domestically spy on citizens without a warrant.

I appreciate the conservative voices, I think they are necessary and beneficial... Same goes for the liberals. My problem is when the absolutists close their minds and ears to anything other than their ideology. The low blows and easy claims of "criminal". It has taken us down an ugly path and does nothing to help or progress our political system. It does quite the opposite.

What you call "closed-minded absolutists" a rational person calls "obeying the law". Your position is as absurd and ridiculous as someone making the case that laws against rape no longer apply, are outdated, and that it's ok to rape women since births world-wide (and especially in the U.S.) are down to historic lows (and that is a fact - not an hypothetical example). No rational person in their right mind would say it's ok for men to start raping women because births are down. And likewise, no rational person in their right mind would stay it's ok to violate the U.S. Constitution because we don't live in the 1800's anymore.

The saddest part is - you don't even know why government exists. If you did, you would realize that it doesn't matter if it's 1700, 1800, or 5400 - the function of the federal government remains the same. Guess what genius - they had health problems in the 1700's too you know. Yet they didn't implement Medicare, Medicaid, or Obamacare. There is a reason for that. You're just too ignorant to understand it. You refused to study history, read the U.S. Constitution or original writings from the founders. You're clueless. Your posts prove it.

Ok man, you lost me at that pathetic rape statement... I'm done with you. Keep living in the past and feeding that bitterness. I hate to agree with assholes but I do agree with some of your statements on the purpose of government and think it belongs in the argument. But you are missing a big part of the puzzle. I've said my piece, I've listened to yours, acknowledged some good points, but for now I'm done. Work on opening up that mind and you might get more engaging discussions

Of course your done after that comment - it illustrates your absurdity that the law doesn't apply when you don't want it to apply. You start with the typical liberal narrative of "we are nation of laws" but all you do is violate the law when you think it suits you and your liberal ideology.

 

[boedicca]

Problem?? Do you even know what real world problems are?? As you sit in front of you own personal computer bitching on a political forum. I call them "First world problems" and they much different than what most people in this world have to deal with.

We are so damn spoiled in this country, the shit we complain about baffles me sometimes.

Oh....oh....oh...I do! I do!

Real world problems is the government (at the demand of libtards) stripping me of basic liberties and guaranteed rights. That is a far bigger problem that a bad economy, a food shortage, or no healthcare. The problem is - libtards are too stupid to know it. They have freedom handed to them on a silver fuck'n platter and as such, they don't appreciate it. All they care about are free benefits - no matter how much they suck.

We live in a nation of laws with the ability to make laws as our society see's fit. The price of security and protection and prosperity mean you abide by and vote to evolve the laws to better our society. You can move to Africa and start a tribe and do whatever the fuck you want. In this country we don't let the savages and bully's take over... We do our best to protect each other, protect our communities, and provide equal opportunity to everybody who shares that vision. And we protect our poor, elderly and mentally ill and do our best to educate our future generations so they can continue our countries prosperity. From the sound of your statements it seems like you have a delusional view of the world... A pretty sad one.

Have you ever heard of The Constitution?

I forget....which comes first in government schooling..

"There is no God"

or

"There is no Constitution"

What comes first in government schooling: There is no Individual.