Guess what Republicans? We really need the Dept of Education, EPA and Energy

[Steelplate]

The US isn't ranked that badly in education, worldwide. Around 14th place.

The interesting thing is that all of the other countries that are doing better than us have much stronger centralized education systems then we do.

My understanding is that most of the nations that have good systems let parents choose the school where they want to send their kid.

I don't know how it could be more centralized than ours. Furthermore, centralization isn't the issue. Government control is the issue. It doesn't matter that much whether it's federal, state or local.

The claim that "privatizing" or "de-regulating" education will somehow make it better is moronic.

Liberals believe facts are moronic.

Brilliant There Bripat. Government control is the issue? How fucking Anarchistic can you get. Hey... I'll tell you what... I'll play right wing idiot on this one... You know.... like when people talk about gay marriage and inevitably some dumbass will say "What if I wanted to marry my dog? How far can we take this?"

Here ya go.... What if certain PARENTS want to teach their kids that the world is flat, that the moon is made out of green cheese and that people of color are actually demons sent from the devil(Yidnar and a few others can probably relate to the last one)?

Without a set of guidelines and social interaction with kids who are different than they are is essential to having kids growing up well adjusted. In short, I think you're wrong.

 

[Steelplate]

What could be worse than closing down key agencies at critical points in our history?

At a time when our children are falling woefully behind other countries, Republicans want to kill the Dept of Education

nobody is calling for closing down schools. It just makes no sense to tax us, send the money to Washington to the department of education only so they can send the money back to states (after skimming their share for admin costs of course)

My question would be, why can't we just let states do their own taxing and let them run their own education systems. No need for the federal governement to get involved.


Same concept at the EPA, no reason to get the federal government involved... Most of the power should be with the states or better yet dealt out on the county level where the people have the most control over their government... Where's the benefit of consolidating all the power in DC??

It's too hard to control our government when their is too many idiots who vote for dangerous politicians like Pelosi, Obama, Waters, Reid??

On the local level it is far easier to communicate with your neighbors and force positive results... A central government is too much of a loose cannon.

I mean 15 trillion in debt?!? Why isn't this frightening liberals? We are heading for a third world banana republic.... Unless that is the goal of the progressive movement... Now that I think about it, that's exactly what they want.

You see the problem is... if you go totally to state taxation, you will have a system of haves and have nots. Think about what you are saying. Look at the bigger Picture.

Northeastern States will have excellent education systems. Sparsely populated places will have virtually NO education system at all... either that, or their Citizens will be taxed to death to Have what more populated states can afford with ease.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Gotta love liberals.... they take something that is an abject failure and hold it out as evidence of success.

Liberalism is indeed a mental disorder.

 

[Lovebears65]

What could be worse than closing down key agencies at critical points in our history?

At a time when our children are falling woefully behind other countries, Republicans want to kill the Dept of Education

At a time when Greenhouse gasses are affecting our climate.......Republicans want to close the Environmental Protection Agency

At a time when we are at the whim of an unstable middle east for oil imports......Republicans want to close the Dept of Energy

We may need parts of these dept but the EPA is way out of control. They wont you develop anything on a piece of land because of a frog or a lizard that may or may not be endangered. They are bullies and use their powers to get their way...

 

[rightwinger]

What could be worse than closing down key agencies at critical points in our history?

At a time when our children are falling woefully behind other countries, Republicans want to kill the Dept of Education

At a time when Greenhouse gasses are affecting our climate.......Republicans want to close the Environmental Protection Agency

At a time when we are at the whim of an unstable middle east for oil imports......Republicans want to close the Dept of Energy

We may need parts of these dept but the EPA is way out of control. They wont you develop anything on a piece of land because of a frog or a lizard that may or may not be endangered. They are bullies and use their powers to get their way...

I have no problems with challenging individual regulations or rulings. I have no problems with accessing our court system to challenge the EPA. But to totally disband a crucial agency that has done much to protect our country is irresponsible

 

[Steelplate]

Just between you and me, Steel? If the youngsters hanging out down at those OWS rallies are the "intelligent" result of having a Department of Education then I'd say it's time for that Department to fade away into obscurity.

I'm not seeing a lot of critical thinking being displayed by the OWS'ers. As a matter of fact they come across as rather naive and simple minded. Now maybe that's the result of sparking up a few too many doobies before they tried to articulate their demands but all I know that listening to them try to run a meeting is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

That's OK... I don't see a lot of Critical Thinking from Conservatives. Oh... y'all LOVE to talk about Critical Thinking.. but only when it's directed towards government and Democrats. You refuse to turn your "supposedly" well tuned Critical Thinking skills on your side's own ideology.

Critical Thinking isn't left/right. It's right/wrong. That's what the boys on the radio conveniently forget to tell you.

We have critically considered the alternatives to enslavement to a strong central government, my dear Mr. Steelplate, and we conclude our preference to be regional needs are best ruled by those in the region, not a supreme power that ignores different regions in favor of populous areas. The founders concluded the same thing, allowing churches to dominate education so children would not run wild through the streets, disrespecting local police, eliminating others' right to pursue happiness by owning small businesses deserving of existence large, angry mobs are incapable of granting, considering their quickness to set a match and throw rocks through windows, disabling the business from serving customers who choose to be served by that particular offering. The coffee shop that was pictured around here on some OWS thread and which had its windows all broken and interior trashed up comes to mind.

Mob rule sucks lemons. That's why we chose a Republican form of government to represent the financial interests of those engaged in providing jobs so young families could have a means of support.

I don't understand the discontent, when the alternative is to force government to do all the thinking and manipulating people to do a corporate will that some find not conducive to freedom.

We hope that meets with the approval of the majority of other Americans. We'd be rather hard-pressed to pay community taxes without businesses, and we'd be lessened without the diversity businesses bring to their respective regions and communities.

Yeah.... well you're ugly and your mom dresses you funny.

Ok... that's a joke..but Ok... I'll Play...

You're critical thinking only leans one way. You see enslavement from government and "liberal" ideology. But you have no fucking concept of the dangers of enslavement from a monopolistic, corporate society... You haven't even considered it. I'll tell you what... if you can find one still alive... go ask an old Coal Miner, or railroad worker, or steel worker back in the Early 1900's. Don't think it can happen again? Go ahead, put them in charge and see what happens. That's why your hated Unions started up in the first place.... and those early strikers and startup unions... were shot and killed by police and Militia.. because they were in the pockets of the Businessmen, and all they wanted in those early days was to be paid in US currency rather than Company Scrip.

You really think that greed has gone away? That these huge corporations with 1000X the power of the companies in those days will do what's right out of the kindness of their heart? I'll tell you this as God as my witness... You don't even have a clue what enslavement is.

Funny how you guys hate Democracy so much... But when it comes to your pet peeves... you're all about "mob rule". Abortion and Homosexuality come to mind.

 

[kaz]

I have no problems with challenging individual regulations or rulings. I have no problems with accessing our court system to challenge the EPA. But to totally disband a crucial agency that has done much to protect our country is irresponsible

My sister is a tree hugging liberal like you. She's got a PhD in Math, her area is Theoretical Statistics, and she oversees studies for a non-profit who does a lot of work for HUD. They have a constant problem with the EPA because the EPA won't share data or studies with them.

Think about that, the EPA spends our taxpayer dollars on studies, then won't share it with other government agencies, must less anyone who wants it. What an arrogant bunch of SOB's they are. Do you ever question government? My God man, open your eyes to the reality and stop going from the glitzy liberal marketing.

 

[Twin Fist]

the dept of education doesnt educate anyone

in fact, when it was created, we led the pack, now, after 30+ years of dept of education guidance, we are not even in site of first place...

the dept of energy doesnt produce any energy.

in fact, when it was created, gas was WELL under a dollar. Now, after 30+ years of energy guidance, gas is stupidly high

if it doesnt work, SCRAP IT

liberalism is a mental disease

 

[Steelplate]

So eliminating the Department of Education will eliminate education?

Fail!

No

It will reduce our capability to compete internationally in education. American students are falling farther and farther behind their international counterparts in terms of education. We are now competing with third world nations on the quality of our education

What is the Republicans solution? Close the Dept of Education. We don't need it. Let the US Educational standards be set by tens of thousands of independent school systems administered by 50 different states

Do you know how many countries that are beating our brains out in education have such a fractured structure of administering their school systems? NONE

They all rely on a unified education system administered by a strong centralized government

Republican plans for education are a FAIL

Are you suggesting that before the creation of the Dept. of Education that Americans were stupid?

How did we ever put a man on the moon!?!?

We used German engineers.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You see enslavement from government and "liberal" ideology.

‘Liberals’ have no ‘ideology,’ that’s why consevatives hate them.

But you have no fucking concept of the dangers of enslavement from a monopolistic, corporate society...

True. Or the fact that conservative opposition to privacy, due process, and equal protection rights will facilitate ‘enslavement from government.’

My sister is a tree hugging liberal like you. She's got a PhD in Math, her area is Theoretical Statistics, and she oversees studies for a non-profit who does a lot of work for HUD. They have a constant problem with the EPA because the EPA won't share data or studies with them.

Think about that, the EPA spends our taxpayer dollars on studies, then won't share it with other government agencies, must less anyone who wants it. What an arrogant bunch of SOB's they are. Do you ever question government? My God man, open your eyes to the reality and stop going from the glitzy liberal marketing.

Assuming the above is true – which is difficult – the appropriate response is to address the agency’s inappropriate actions, not destroy it. The alleged bad acts of members of a government agency does not justify the agency’s elimination – that’s just radical rightwing extremism.

 

[rightwinger]

I have no problems with challenging individual regulations or rulings. I have no problems with accessing our court system to challenge the EPA. But to totally disband a crucial agency that has done much to protect our country is irresponsible

My sister is a tree hugging liberal like you. She's got a PhD in Math, her area is Theoretical Statistics, and she oversees studies for a non-profit who does a lot of work for HUD. They have a constant problem with the EPA because the EPA won't share data or studies with them.

Think about that, the EPA spends our taxpayer dollars on studies, then won't share it with other government agencies, must less anyone who wants it. What an arrogant bunch of SOB's they are. Do you ever question government? My God man, open your eyes to the reality and stop going from the glitzy liberal marketing.

Guess what?

In eight years of Bush, the EPA was kept on a tight leash and stocked with sympathetic conservatives. Now, after three years of Obama having them do their jobs the Republican solution is to abolish them

 

[Foxfyre]

I have no problems with challenging individual regulations or rulings. I have no problems with accessing our court system to challenge the EPA. But to totally disband a crucial agency that has done much to protect our country is irresponsible

My sister is a tree hugging liberal like you. She's got a PhD in Math, her area is Theoretical Statistics, and she oversees studies for a non-profit who does a lot of work for HUD. They have a constant problem with the EPA because the EPA won't share data or studies with them.

Think about that, the EPA spends our taxpayer dollars on studies, then won't share it with other government agencies, must less anyone who wants it. What an arrogant bunch of SOB's they are. Do you ever question government? My God man, open your eyes to the reality and stop going from the glitzy liberal marketing.

Guess what?

In eight years of Bush, the EPA was kept on a tight leash. Now, after three years of Obama having them do their jobs the Republican solution is to abolish them

Don't you get the least bit embarrassed posting something like that???????

 

[Flopper]

And having three close family members who are engineers or otherwise working in industries closely regulated and involving the EPA, I can testify that ALL are painfully aware of the UNNECESSARY and costly regulation imposed by the EPA that is costing us all hundreds, if not thousands of dollars every year.

Nobody is saying the government has no role in environmental protections and regulations, at least in those areas in which the various states share the air, water, oceans, etc. Nobody is saying the federal government cannot promote the general welfare by providing services for education, energy, and of course interstate and international commerce MUST be regulated by the federal government in order to promote free markets and secure all of our rights.

All we are saying is that the agencies that were chartered to deal with these things have become bloated and incompetent and inefficient and unnecessarily intrusive and authoritarian and far too expensive to the point they cause more harm than good. It is the nature of an unchecked government to grow itself, feed itself more and more, and seize more and more power until it exists for its own self instead of those whom it was intended to serve.

Do you have any specific examples, not generalities of unnecessary and costly regulations? There have been lots of posts concerning the new coal regulations, but nothing very specific.

 

[Listening]

‘Liberals’ have no ‘ideology,’ that’s why consevatives hate them.

Hate ?

Liberals lack a great many things. Kinda like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

 

[rightwinger]

My sister is a tree hugging liberal like you. She's got a PhD in Math, her area is Theoretical Statistics, and she oversees studies for a non-profit who does a lot of work for HUD. They have a constant problem with the EPA because the EPA won't share data or studies with them.

Think about that, the EPA spends our taxpayer dollars on studies, then won't share it with other government agencies, must less anyone who wants it. What an arrogant bunch of SOB's they are. Do you ever question government? My God man, open your eyes to the reality and stop going from the glitzy liberal marketing.

Guess what?

In eight years of Bush, the EPA was kept on a tight leash. Now, after three years of Obama having them do their jobs the Republican solution is to abolish them

Don't you get the least bit embarrassed posting something like that???????

What is embarrassing is Republicans climbing all over themselves to set aside 40 years of environmental progress so that their patrons can make more money

 

[Listening]

What is embarrassing is Republicans climbing all over themselves to set aside 40 years of environmental progress so that their patrons can make more money

Setting aside 40 years of environmental progress is not setting aside the EPA.

Much of that progress is technology driven. The EPA has nothing to do with it.

The EPA has plenty to do with driving manufacturing out of this country.

Equating the EPA with Environmental Progress.......

My side hurts.

 

[Flopper]

Scrapping government education altogether would solve 100% of the problems with our government schools.

I know am wasting my time with this message, but I would suggest you actually do just a bit of real research into what these departments actually do, particular in reference to the Dept of Education.

The DOE does not mandate how schools are run, nor what is taught in the schools, nor how it is taught. Except where mandated by federal law, state and local government can turn down federal funding and federal programs. The DOE recommends programs and provides funding for those programs often through competitive grants.

There seems to be three major targets of right, No Child Left Behind, the School Lunch Program, and Head Start. With or without the DOE, these programs would still exist. No Child Left Behind is mandated by Congress. Without the DOE, the personnel responsibility for this program would have to be duplicated in every state increasing the cost or moved to another dept. Head Start is administrated and funded through Health and Human Services, not the DOE. The School Lunch Program is administered through the Dept of Agriculture not the DOE.

Thank you for highlighting another Dept of Education FAILURE! No Child left Behind is what dumbed down the system and let illiterate graduates receive diplomas that they cannot read. It likely played a significant role in the recent "teachers cheating" scandal in Atlanta Public Schools (which I doubt seriously is a singularity). Failure of the students to pass standardized tests would jeopardize the federal funds for the next year. So the teachers CHEAT....something we are supposed to be teaching our children NOT to do.


The NEA and its subsidiary teachers unions have guaranteed jobs to inept and inadequate "teachers" that are doing nothing more than procreating their own inadequacies by attaching them to their graduating classes...at whatever level they teach.

No Child Left Behind is an utter failure.

The Dept of Education recommends programs and cuts off federal funding to school systems that do not adopt them. Where did you fuckin' go to school?

Don't blame the DOE for NCLB. They just administering it. Blame Bush and Congress for creating it. This program was pure crap from day one. States should decide how best to handle failing schools.

 

[rightwinger]

What is embarrassing is Republicans climbing all over themselves to set aside 40 years of environmental progress so that their patrons can make more money

Setting aside 40 years of environmental progress is not setting aside the EPA.

Much of that progress is technology driven. The EPA has nothing to do with it.

The EPA has plenty to do with driving manufacturing out of this country.

Equating the EPA with Environmental Progress.......

My side hurts.

And as soon as you remove the watchdog, industry will revert to their old ways.

 

[Foxfyre]

And having three close family members who are engineers or otherwise working in industries closely regulated and involving the EPA, I can testify that ALL are painfully aware of the UNNECESSARY and costly regulation imposed by the EPA that is costing us all hundreds, if not thousands of dollars every year.

Nobody is saying the government has no role in environmental protections and regulations, at least in those areas in which the various states share the air, water, oceans, etc. Nobody is saying the federal government cannot promote the general welfare by providing services for education, energy, and of course interstate and international commerce MUST be regulated by the federal government in order to promote free markets and secure all of our rights.

All we are saying is that the agencies that were chartered to deal with these things have become bloated and incompetent and inefficient and unnecessarily intrusive and authoritarian and far too expensive to the point they cause more harm than good. It is the nature of an unchecked government to grow itself, feed itself more and more, and seize more and more power until it exists for its own self instead of those whom it was intended to serve.

Do you have any specific examples, not generalities of unnecessary and costly regulations? There have been lots of posts concerning the new coal regulations, but nothing very specific.

We aren't drilling in the tiny TINY portion of ANWR, an area that is literally an arctic desert bereft of human occupation, minimal wildlife occupation, and with no aesthetic beauty whatsoever because the EPA won't approve ANY process for going after the substantial oil reserves there.

Hundreds of millions of dollars have burned up when we lost California homes to wildfires because the EPA would not allow the homeowners to clear the brush away from their homes due to that MIGHT disturb the habitat of some protected rat. (I'm sure those fires didn't disturb that habitat though.)

We haven't built a major, large capacity refinery in this country since 1977, mostly because the EPA regulations make it far too difficult and expensive to do so. The few very small refineries and expansions that have finally met EPA specifications and have been built since then--the last in 2008 in Wyoming--have not handled more than a tiny fraction of the increase in demand since 1977.

We have millions of acres of prime cropland producing crops for ethanol, almost all at a cost to the taxpayer, because the government is making it more lucrative to use for that purpose than to grow food crops. And, in addition to that consuming large quantities of taxpayer monies as no ethanol plant has yet turned a profit, we are also seeing the higher costs of fruit and produce at the supermarket along with a much higher amount of imported produce coming in which has to be affecting trade balances.

We recently had a plastics manufacturer wanting to build a plant here in Albuquerque and he had bid on some property that suited his needs continent on him being able to get the necessary permits. After three years of waiting for EPA studies and approval to be given, he gave up and took his millions of dollars and 800 jobs to Texas. Shortly after that the EPA approved a chicken processing outfit--a much MUCH dirtier operation than the plastics manufacturing would have been--on that same land. As that expanded an existing operation, net new jobs, about 15. I suppose it was just coincidence--according to a local investigative reporter--that the chicken outfit had made a large donation to the Democratic Party??????

There are hundreds, probably thousands of examples like this that should be of concern to Americans of whatever political ideology. Reform doesn't seem possible. Just scrap the darn thing and start over with the small, efficient, effective agency that the EPA was when it first started out.

 

[code1211]

And do you know what Conservatives said?

Think of the lost jobs if we have to clean up our own mess

I worked at a chemical manufacturing site where many of the younger engineers were deeply concerned with the environment. We frequently had to take the EPA into our plants for inspection of specific emmission points. We'd walk right past things that should have been much higher on their radar but were not because it wasn't in some manual or law somewhere. Thank goodness the company was good enough to self regulate.

But we could (yes could) have legally poured all kinds of stuff into the atmosphere. But didn't. But the EPA was there to inspect things like emissions from footing excavations (had to have an air permit if you were going more that two feet down....now that was useful) on schedule.

Sooo.... you're saying there needs to be stronger regulations then? I agree!

Sooo... it sounds like you'd be a logical addition to a group that does nothing useful and doesn't know the difference.