Gun Control and the Inner City

[BrianH]

How many times have the people of the United States had to defend themselves against oppression?

3 times for sure. Revolutionary War, war of 1812, and the Civil War. Both sides thought they were defending themselves against oppression. IMO, the main problem is when people somehow come to the conclusion that civilized nations are immune to oppression, invasion, and/or tryannical governments. There have been invasions, wars, the loss and and creation of countries since countries were first organized. What makes people think that it will all stop just because of the times we live in? The Roman empire was the most civilized and powerful nation of its time, but it still fell. Now that I think of it, many Americans, especially along the southern border are being forced to defend themselves against oppression from the Mexican drug cartels...this is especially so considering our government is not doing its job in protecting our borders.

The Revolutionary War was pre-United States, 1812 was a war declared by the USA on Britain followed by an invasion of Canadian territory and the Civil War...well, that is an interpretation I suppose...

The 1812 war is an interesting read actually, I had heard of it but never knew anything about it...in fact I assumed it was to do with Mexico...that was clearly a different one.

I would humbly submit that the fall of the Roman Empire is a bit more complicated than outside oppressive forces.
Remember it was an empire, consisting of an amalgam of territories acquired largely by force - it could be argued that they, in fact, were the oppressors.

I'm not comparing the Roman empire specifically to the U.S., but simply saying that large nations have fallen in history and will continue to fall. Hell, the U.S.S.R fell less than around twenty years ago. My point in all this is that many people assume that because of "the time" there's no need to defend yourself from anything. Supposedly our laws protects us and our governments are "just." We know all this to be a ferry tale.

As far as Mexico is concerned...

1. Right now the Mexican citizens are being supressed by drug cartels. Citizens are no allowed to own firearms and to have one is a sizeable punishment. Google the number of Mexican citizens killed in the last few years on the U.S. southern border...IT WOULD SHOCK YOU.

2. The American-Mexican war was fought when Texas was annexed to the U.S. The Mexican army had already been defeated when Texas fought for it's own independence. Texas was actually it's own country for a while...when they were annexed, it pissed Mexico off and they deemed to fight for territory they believed was theirs. It was hardly an oppression of the citizen population.

 

[MikeK]

How much time does it take to restrict someone freedoms? How fast can a legislative branch create new laws that restrict freedoms? We have our guns the subject of any gun control is not up for debate.

Just look through out recent history Nazi Germany was a democracy how did their rights do the jewish germans when they did not have the means of a way to defend themself.

That is an excellent point!

If Germany's Jews had been armed, along with those other ethnic and social categories marked fof extermination had been as well armed as the American population is it is not likely there would have been any concentration camps.

As it was, an uprising in one of the camps in which just forty Jews managed to get hold of some guns held off a battalion of SS troopers for several days, killing quite a few of them, before they were overwhelmed. We don't hear very much about that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Who was it fought against then?
Sorry, my googling skills aren't as good as yours.

You really do not seem to have a problem with googling if you can type a post you can google.

It would be a foolish duplication of effort for us both to Google the same subject.
Think of all the other important things I could be doing.

You want it googled you do it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How much time does it take to restrict someone freedoms? How fast can a legislative branch create new laws that restrict freedoms? We have our guns the subject of any gun control is not up for debate.

Just look through out recent history Nazi Germany was a democracy how did their rights do the jewish germans when they did not have the means of a way to defend themself.

That is an excellent point!

If Germany's Jews had been armed, along with those other ethnic and social categories marked fof extermination had been as well armed as the American population is it is not likely there would have been any concentration camps.

As it was, an uprising in one of the camps in which just forty Jews managed to get hold of some guns held off a battalion of SS troopers for several days, killing quite a few of them, before they were overwhelmed. We don't hear very much about that.

Thank you

 

[Kato]

Nobody should have to raise their hand and ask permission from the State to act in self defense.

 

[idb]

3 times for sure. Revolutionary War, war of 1812, and the Civil War. Both sides thought they were defending themselves against oppression. IMO, the main problem is when people somehow come to the conclusion that civilized nations are immune to oppression, invasion, and/or tryannical governments. There have been invasions, wars, the loss and and creation of countries since countries were first organized. What makes people think that it will all stop just because of the times we live in? The Roman empire was the most civilized and powerful nation of its time, but it still fell. Now that I think of it, many Americans, especially along the southern border are being forced to defend themselves against oppression from the Mexican drug cartels...this is especially so considering our government is not doing its job in protecting our borders.

The Revolutionary War was pre-United States, 1812 was a war declared by the USA on Britain followed by an invasion of Canadian territory and the Civil War...well, that is an interpretation I suppose...

The 1812 war is an interesting read actually, I had heard of it but never knew anything about it...in fact I assumed it was to do with Mexico...that was clearly a different one.

I would humbly submit that the fall of the Roman Empire is a bit more complicated than outside oppressive forces.
Remember it was an empire, consisting of an amalgam of territories acquired largely by force - it could be argued that they, in fact, were the oppressors.

I'm not comparing the Roman empire specifically to the U.S., but simply saying that large nations have fallen in history and will continue to fall. Hell, the U.S.S.R fell less than around twenty years ago. My point in all this is that many people assume that because of "the time" there's no need to defend yourself from anything. Supposedly our laws protects us and our governments are "just." We know all this to be a ferry tale.

As far as Mexico is concerned...

1. Right now the Mexican citizens are being supressed by drug cartels. Citizens are no allowed to own firearms and to have one is a sizeable punishment. Google the number of Mexican citizens killed in the last few years on the U.S. southern border...IT WOULD SHOCK YOU.

2. The American-Mexican war was fought when Texas was annexed to the U.S. The Mexican army had already been defeated when Texas fought for it's own independence. Texas was actually it's own country for a while...when they were annexed, it pissed Mexico off and they deemed to fight for territory they believed was theirs. It was hardly an oppression of the citizen population.

Yep, Texas was annexed after it had already seceded from Mexico.
I accept that was stretching an argument.
But the western states were taken by force, in fact USA troops occupied Mexico City!
I bet the locals were a bit miffed about that.
There was also a rebellion in California against the American oppressors.


This is interesting stuff.

 

[idb]

How much time does it take to restrict someone freedoms? How fast can a legislative branch create new laws that restrict freedoms? We have our guns the subject of any gun control is not up for debate.

Just look through out recent history Nazi Germany was a democracy how did their rights do the jewish germans when they did not have the means of a way to defend themself.

That is an excellent point!

If Germany's Jews had been armed, along with those other ethnic and social categories marked fof extermination had been as well armed as the American population is it is not likely there would have been any concentration camps.

As it was, an uprising in one of the camps in which just forty Jews managed to get hold of some guns held off a battalion of SS troopers for several days, killing quite a few of them, before they were overwhelmed. We don't hear very much about that.

Riiiiight!
The rest of Europe had a fair bit of armament between them and the Germans did a pretty good job of beating them up.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

How much time does it take to restrict someone freedoms? How fast can a legislative branch create new laws that restrict freedoms? We have our guns the subject of any gun control is not up for debate.

Just look through out recent history Nazi Germany was a democracy how did their rights do the jewish germans when they did not have the means of a way to defend themself.

That is an excellent point!

If Germany's Jews had been armed, along with those other ethnic and social categories marked fof extermination had been as well armed as the American population is it is not likely there would have been any concentration camps.

As it was, an uprising in one of the camps in which just forty Jews managed to get hold of some guns held off a battalion of SS troopers for several days, killing quite a few of them, before they were overwhelmed. We don't hear very much about that.

Riiiiight!
The rest of Europe had a fair bit of armament between them and the Germans did a pretty good job of beating them up.

How did it work for the russians in Afghanstain?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Revolutionary War was pre-United States, 1812 was a war declared by the USA on Britain followed by an invasion of Canadian territory and the Civil War...well, that is an interpretation I suppose...

The 1812 war is an interesting read actually, I had heard of it but never knew anything about it...in fact I assumed it was to do with Mexico...that was clearly a different one.

I would humbly submit that the fall of the Roman Empire is a bit more complicated than outside oppressive forces.
Remember it was an empire, consisting of an amalgam of territories acquired largely by force - it could be argued that they, in fact, were the oppressors.

I'm not comparing the Roman empire specifically to the U.S., but simply saying that large nations have fallen in history and will continue to fall. Hell, the U.S.S.R fell less than around twenty years ago. My point in all this is that many people assume that because of "the time" there's no need to defend yourself from anything. Supposedly our laws protects us and our governments are "just." We know all this to be a ferry tale.

As far as Mexico is concerned...

1. Right now the Mexican citizens are being supressed by drug cartels. Citizens are no allowed to own firearms and to have one is a sizeable punishment. Google the number of Mexican citizens killed in the last few years on the U.S. southern border...IT WOULD SHOCK YOU.

2. The American-Mexican war was fought when Texas was annexed to the U.S. The Mexican army had already been defeated when Texas fought for it's own independence. Texas was actually it's own country for a while...when they were annexed, it pissed Mexico off and they deemed to fight for territory they believed was theirs. It was hardly an oppression of the citizen population.

Yep, Texas was annexed after it had already seceded from Mexico.
I accept that was stretching an argument.
But the western states were taken by force, in fact USA troops occupied Mexico City!
I bet the locals were a bit miffed about that.
There was also a rebellion in California against the American oppressors.


This is interesting stuff.

oh the world view on American history, doesn't matter don't give a shit.

 

[idb]

That is an excellent point!

If Germany's Jews had been armed, along with those other ethnic and social categories marked fof extermination had been as well armed as the American population is it is not likely there would have been any concentration camps.

As it was, an uprising in one of the camps in which just forty Jews managed to get hold of some guns held off a battalion of SS troopers for several days, killing quite a few of them, before they were overwhelmed. We don't hear very much about that.

Riiiiight!
The rest of Europe had a fair bit of armament between them and the Germans did a pretty good job of beating them up.

How did it work for the russians in Afghanstain?

The good old Taliban came to the fore there alright!
And they're doing it again...you've got me there.
They'll soon have their country back!

 

[idb]

I'm not comparing the Roman empire specifically to the U.S., but simply saying that large nations have fallen in history and will continue to fall. Hell, the U.S.S.R fell less than around twenty years ago. My point in all this is that many people assume that because of "the time" there's no need to defend yourself from anything. Supposedly our laws protects us and our governments are "just." We know all this to be a ferry tale.

As far as Mexico is concerned...

1. Right now the Mexican citizens are being supressed by drug cartels. Citizens are no allowed to own firearms and to have one is a sizeable punishment. Google the number of Mexican citizens killed in the last few years on the U.S. southern border...IT WOULD SHOCK YOU.

2. The American-Mexican war was fought when Texas was annexed to the U.S. The Mexican army had already been defeated when Texas fought for it's own independence. Texas was actually it's own country for a while...when they were annexed, it pissed Mexico off and they deemed to fight for territory they believed was theirs. It was hardly an oppression of the citizen population.

Yep, Texas was annexed after it had already seceded from Mexico.
I accept that was stretching an argument.
But the western states were taken by force, in fact USA troops occupied Mexico City!
I bet the locals were a bit miffed about that.
There was also a rebellion in California against the American oppressors.


This is interesting stuff.

oh the world view on American history, doesn't matter don't give a shit.

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day to let us know.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yep, Texas was annexed after it had already seceded from Mexico.
I accept that was stretching an argument.
But the western states were taken by force, in fact USA troops occupied Mexico City!
I bet the locals were a bit miffed about that.
There was also a rebellion in California against the American oppressors.


This is interesting stuff.

oh the world view on American history, doesn't matter don't give a shit.

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day to let us know.

We just don't care what you think, You would be speak Japanese right now if it hadn't been for America. But don't let that stop your hate.

 

[idb]

oh the world view on American history, doesn't matter don't give a shit.

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day to let us know.

We just don't care what you think, You would be speak Japanese right now if it hadn't been for America. But don't let that stop your hate.

That's right, because you are all safe and cosy in your republic with your guns and inalienable rights...you have no need of the rest of the world do you?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Thank you for taking time out from your busy day to let us know.

We just don't care what you think, You would be speak Japanese right now if it hadn't been for America. But don't let that stop your hate.

That's right, because you are all safe and cosy in your republic with your guns and inalienable rights...you have no need of the rest of the world do you?

You can have the UN if you want it.

 

[idb]

We just don't care what you think, You would be speak Japanese right now if it hadn't been for America. But don't let that stop your hate.

That's right, because you are all safe and cosy in your republic with your guns and inalienable rights...you have no need of the rest of the world do you?

You can have the UN if you want it.

You need the rental income from the building.
You should find another tenant before you evict them.
After all you're broke, remember.

 

[BrianH]

The Revolutionary War was pre-United States, 1812 was a war declared by the USA on Britain followed by an invasion of Canadian territory and the Civil War...well, that is an interpretation I suppose...

The 1812 war is an interesting read actually, I had heard of it but never knew anything about it...in fact I assumed it was to do with Mexico...that was clearly a different one.

I would humbly submit that the fall of the Roman Empire is a bit more complicated than outside oppressive forces.
Remember it was an empire, consisting of an amalgam of territories acquired largely by force - it could be argued that they, in fact, were the oppressors.

I'm not comparing the Roman empire specifically to the U.S., but simply saying that large nations have fallen in history and will continue to fall. Hell, the U.S.S.R fell less than around twenty years ago. My point in all this is that many people assume that because of "the time" there's no need to defend yourself from anything. Supposedly our laws protects us and our governments are "just." We know all this to be a ferry tale.

As far as Mexico is concerned...

1. Right now the Mexican citizens are being supressed by drug cartels. Citizens are no allowed to own firearms and to have one is a sizeable punishment. Google the number of Mexican citizens killed in the last few years on the U.S. southern border...IT WOULD SHOCK YOU.

2. The American-Mexican war was fought when Texas was annexed to the U.S. The Mexican army had already been defeated when Texas fought for it's own independence. Texas was actually it's own country for a while...when they were annexed, it pissed Mexico off and they deemed to fight for territory they believed was theirs. It was hardly an oppression of the citizen population.

Yep, Texas was annexed after it had already seceded from Mexico.
I accept that was stretching an argument.
But the western states were taken by force, in fact USA troops occupied Mexico City!
I bet the locals were a bit miffed about that.
There was also a rebellion in California against the American oppressors.


This is interesting stuff.

Exactly, so we are agreeing that people can be oppressed....and the absent of arms helped them be oppressed...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's right, because you are all safe and cosy in your republic with your guns and inalienable rights...you have no need of the rest of the world do you?

You can have the UN if you want it.

You need the rental income from the building.
You should find another tenant before you evict them.
After all you're broke, remember.

Nawh go on take it, most Americans are fed up with the U.N.I'm not broke, the government might be broke but I ain't.

 

[JohnA]

No, but they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Washingint D.C. had the highst gun crime rate in the U.S. during it's ban. Chicago's gun violence increased also. This is also true for the U.K. Like I've said, law-abiding citizens are the only ones who follow laws...

What do the suicide rates have to do with gun control or crime?

UK gun crime rates are still among the lowest in the world.
Yes, as far as I can tell, gun crime rates did increase after the ban on handguns was enacted but is now on a downward trend.
Could this be because the existing illegal handguns are still being secured?
Maybe because the legislative powers given to the cops have finally started to take effect?

The question remains though...If having firearms freely available is so effective in preventing gun crime then why is the USA so high in gun-related crimes in comparison to the rest of the world?

Suicides do count when it comes to gun related deaths....that's what it has to do with it....

I am for reasonable gun regulations that do not restrict law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms. I want tougher restrictions when it comes to straw sales, buying used firearms from individuals, seeing as these are the most common ways for criminals and nutjobs to get firearms...

only if the suicide is carried out by a gun you moron and the articules referanced below suggests other methods were used

quote

There has been a spate recently of suicide attempts using hydrogen sulphide gas that had been produced following instructions that are easily found on the Internet. According to police reports, over 500 Japanese have killed themselves this year by inhaling hydrogen sulphide fumes.
unquote

Suicide Rate In Japan Still Climbing Despite Government Measures

quote


Common methods of suicide are jumping in front of trains, leaping off high places, hanging, or overdosing on medication.[1] Rail companies will charge the families of those who commit suicide a fee depending on the severity of disrupted traffic.[16]

A newer method, gaining in popularity partly due to publicity from Internet suicide websites,[2] is to use household products to make the poisonous gas hydrogen sulfide. In 2007, only 29 suicides used this gas, but in a span from January to September 2008, 867 suicides resulted from gas poisoning.[17]
[edit] Ties with business

unquote


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan

 

[BrianH]

What do the suicide rates have to do with gun control or crime?

UK gun crime rates are still among the lowest in the world.
Yes, as far as I can tell, gun crime rates did increase after the ban on handguns was enacted but is now on a downward trend.
Could this be because the existing illegal handguns are still being secured?
Maybe because the legislative powers given to the cops have finally started to take effect?

The question remains though...If having firearms freely available is so effective in preventing gun crime then why is the USA so high in gun-related crimes in comparison to the rest of the world?

Suicides do count when it comes to gun related deaths....that's what it has to do with it....

I am for reasonable gun regulations that do not restrict law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms. I want tougher restrictions when it comes to straw sales, buying used firearms from individuals, seeing as these are the most common ways for criminals and nutjobs to get firearms...

only if the suicide is carried out by a gun you moron and the articule suggests other methods were used

quote

There has been a spate recently of suicide attempts using hydrogen sulphide gas that had been produced following instructions that are easily found on the Internet. According to police reports, over 500 Japanese have killed themselves this year by inhaling hydrogen sulphide fumes.
unquote

Suicide Rate In Japan Still Climbing Despite Government Measures

Listen here ass mouth, do you have a problem with reading comprehension? We're talking about guns contributing to death. My point is that gun control won't stop gun crime much like it won't stop suicides. Hence, the large number of suicides in Japan by other methods. Make sure you understand a post before you call someone a moron; dipshit

 

[JohnA]

Suicides do count when it comes to gun related deaths....that's what it has to do with it....

I am for reasonable gun regulations that do not restrict law-abiding citizens from obtaining firearms. I want tougher restrictions when it comes to straw sales, buying used firearms from individuals, seeing as these are the most common ways for criminals and nutjobs to get firearms...

only if the suicide is carried out by a gun you moron and the articule suggests other methods were used

quote

There has been a spate recently of suicide attempts using hydrogen sulphide gas that had been produced following instructions that are easily found on the Internet. According to police reports, over 500 Japanese have killed themselves this year by inhaling hydrogen sulphide fumes.
unquote

Suicide Rate In Japan Still Climbing Despite Government Measures

Listen here ass mouth, do you have a problem with reading comprehension? We're talking about guns contributing to death. My point is that gun control won't stop gun crime much like it won't stop suicides. Hence, the large number of suicides in Japan by other methods. Make sure you understand a post before you call someone a moron; dipshit

Well that isnt how it reads

you state your for gun regulations now your twisting somewhat and say what you ment was your against gun control cus it wont stop crime

states about suicide by methods other then guns is a non sequiter anyway .