Gun Control - What's the Problem?

[Rustic]

where do you get those great photos from?

Google "Silly gun control"

 

[Slade3200]

I see that point flew right over your head, so let's try something else:

Can you name me one major issue of Democrats that ever stopped at one place: one that never advanced as the years went on?

Your problem seems to be that you don't want to look at the big picture, you just want to look at what's in front of you. But with liberalism, it's always about the big picture.

Before Commie Care was passed, we told people it was all about more government. Opponents said it was all about the civil right that was never written about people getting medical care.

Listen to any White House spokesperson on the issue today. 14 million people now have health insurance. What does that mean? Democrats created 14 million more government dependents. The more government dependents we have in this country, the more likely Democrat voters in the future. But you think politicians actually care if you have health insurance or not? And they brag about this government dependency like it's something to be proud of. There is nothing to celebrate when we create more government dependents.

Again, look at the big picture, because the little pictures will lead you there.

What goes over my head is how you and so many others can just characterize something as Democratic or Liberal then completely dismiss it. It is that kind of partisanship that is ruining our country. You accuse me of looking at what's in front of me like that's a bad thing. Perhaps we should all just simply look at the laws and proposals that are put in front of us in an objective way and play to the party.

 

[Slade3200]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.

Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.

The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?

because this is not the first time people have demanded registration of guns to keep people safe......it happened in Germany, Britain and Australia....the most prominent and known examples...then years later...they banned and confiscated all guns.

This is not made up, it has actually happened......

and in the worst case scenario...12 million people were sent to the gas chambers when Europe was disarmed.

2aguy, you've been the most intelligent on the subject so far and I appreciate the information as well as your opinion on the matter. I just don't think your fears of mass confiscation or another holocaust is realistic. Background checks, a gun registry, and a
training/accreditation program are all excellent ideas that would be help to ensure only responsible people own guns. This will certainly help reduce misuse, accidents, and unnecessary death.

If down the line legislation is passed to confiscate guns then that would be a shame but that will only happen with the majority support of the citizens of our democracy. If that is the will of the majority then so be it. That is the principle that our country is founded on. In the meanwhile, why can't we just take it one action at a time?

 

[Rustic]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.

Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.

The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?

because this is not the first time people have demanded registration of guns to keep people safe......it happened in Germany, Britain and Australia....the most prominent and known examples...then years later...they banned and confiscated all guns.

This is not made up, it has actually happened......

and in the worst case scenario...12 million people were sent to the gas chambers when Europe was disarmed.

2aguy, you've been the most intelligent on the subject so far and I appreciate the information as well as your opinion on the matter. I just don't think your fears of mass confiscation or another holocaust is realistic. Background checks, a gun registry, and a
training/accreditation program are all excellent ideas that would be help to ensure only responsible people own guns. This will certainly help reduce misuse, accidents, and unnecessary death.

If down the line legislation is passed to confiscate guns then that would be a shame but that will only happen with the majority support of the citizens of our democracy. If that is the will of the majority then so be it. That is the principle that our country is founded on. In the meanwhile, why can't we just take it one action at a time?

 

[Slade3200]

I am curious....could you state the measures and then explain how they actually work. You seem to be new here, and I have asked the other people who support your position to do the same...they can't or won't...will you?

I don't need to write it all out... It is listed at this link you can read it for yourself. Which ones are you objecting to?

President Obama’s 2015 Executive Actions on Gun Control

 

[Slade3200]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Did you think about that clip?

Do you realize that if a criminal wants that 400 dollar gun...and Universal Background checks were in place....then the criminals would do what they already do...they would send in a straw buyer, someone they know or hire to buy the gun because that buyer can pass a background check.....so Universal Background checks would still not stop that purchase.

And do you realize that Britain is 2x as violent as the United States....that the people of Britain are robbed and beaten at a higher rate than they are here?

And you know they still have gun crime in Britain...all the time...in fact, after the confiscation their gun crime spiked and then it fell back to the same level it was after the confiscation....do you realize that? They confiscated guns and all they got for it was the same level of gun violence they had before the confiscation...and more violent crime in general........


The difference between the U.S. and Europe and Australia....our criminals commit murder more often....it is not those people at the gun show that are the problem...it is career criminals......our criminals murder more often than the criminals in Britain, Europe and Australia even though they have the same ability to get the guns they want and need.

Even in Japan.....they have had gang wars over there...and are concerned about another one that might break out...the gangs there are buying guns and hiring hit men.....so even in Japan, when their criminals want to murder people, they can get the guns they want and need.....

Most of the time they just don't choose to murder as often.....

You keep bringing up confiscation... Nobody is proposing confiscation! You are chasing the invisible agenda again... People are frustrated at Washington, but the problem is right here, people being partisan, close minded, and oppositional just for the sake of being oppositional. It hinders progress... wish more pro-gunners would be more pro-active.

 

[Rustic]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Did you think about that clip?

Do you realize that if a criminal wants that 400 dollar gun...and Universal Background checks were in place....then the criminals would do what they already do...they would send in a straw buyer, someone they know or hire to buy the gun because that buyer can pass a background check.....so Universal Background checks would still not stop that purchase.

And do you realize that Britain is 2x as violent as the United States....that the people of Britain are robbed and beaten at a higher rate than they are here?

And you know they still have gun crime in Britain...all the time...in fact, after the confiscation their gun crime spiked and then it fell back to the same level it was after the confiscation....do you realize that? They confiscated guns and all they got for it was the same level of gun violence they had before the confiscation...and more violent crime in general........


The difference between the U.S. and Europe and Australia....our criminals commit murder more often....it is not those people at the gun show that are the problem...it is career criminals......our criminals murder more often than the criminals in Britain, Europe and Australia even though they have the same ability to get the guns they want and need.

Even in Japan.....they have had gang wars over there...and are concerned about another one that might break out...the gangs there are buying guns and hiring hit men.....so even in Japan, when their criminals want to murder people, they can get the guns they want and need.....

Most of the time they just don't choose to murder as often.....

You keep bringing up confiscation... Nobody is proposing confiscation! You are chasing the invisible agenda again... People are frustrated at Washington, but the problem is right here, people being partisan, close minded, and oppositional just for the sake of being oppositional. It hinders progress... wish more pro-gunners would be more pro-active.

 

[Slade3200]

No...sorry. Owning a gun is aRight....the democrats used literacy tests to keep blacks from exercising their right to vote....they also used Poll taxes to block blacks from voting....that is why both are Un constitutional and violate the 14th amendment.....

we simply have to bring cases based on the 14th Amendment to defeat many of these taxes and bans.....

guns are already safe....they have safety features to keep them from firing when they are dropped and other features that make them safe......

You can't make a car safe against intentional harm......same with a gun.

Gun accidental deaths in 2013... 505...with over 320 million guns in private hands at the time.

Car accidental deaths.... 2013.. over 35,000

But to drive a car you need to pass a test, get a license and register each car you own before gaining the privilege to drive it. I don't see the harm in asking for gun owners to undergo a similar process.

 

[Rustic]

No...sorry. Owning a gun is aRight....the democrats used literacy tests to keep blacks from exercising their right to vote....they also used Poll taxes to block blacks from voting....that is why both are Un constitutional and violate the 14th amendment.....

we simply have to bring cases based on the 14th Amendment to defeat many of these taxes and bans.....

guns are already safe....they have safety features to keep them from firing when they are dropped and other features that make them safe......

You can't make a car safe against intentional harm......same with a gun.

Gun accidental deaths in 2013... 505...with over 320 million guns in private hands at the time.

Car accidental deaths.... 2013.. over 35,000

But you need to pass a test, get a license and register a car before gaining the privilege to drive it. I don't see the harm in asking for gun owners to undergo a similar process.

Are you stupid in the head??
Firearm ownership is an right, car ownership not so much.
Dumbass

 

[Slade3200]

No...sorry. Owning a gun is aRight....the democrats used literacy tests to keep blacks from exercising their right to vote....they also used Poll taxes to block blacks from voting....that is why both are Un constitutional and violate the 14th amendment.....

we simply have to bring cases based on the 14th Amendment to defeat many of these taxes and bans.....

guns are already safe....they have safety features to keep them from firing when they are dropped and other features that make them safe......

You can't make a car safe against intentional harm......same with a gun.

Gun accidental deaths in 2013... 505...with over 320 million guns in private hands at the time.

Car accidental deaths.... 2013.. over 35,000

But you need to pass a test, get a license and register a car before gaining the privilege to drive it. I don't see the harm in asking for gun owners to undergo a similar process.

Are you stupid in the head??
Firearm ownership is an right, car ownership not so much.
Dumbass

Deja vu... asshat

 

[Rustic]

 

[Rustic]

No...sorry. Owning a gun is aRight....the democrats used literacy tests to keep blacks from exercising their right to vote....they also used Poll taxes to block blacks from voting....that is why both are Un constitutional and violate the 14th amendment.....

we simply have to bring cases based on the 14th Amendment to defeat many of these taxes and bans.....

guns are already safe....they have safety features to keep them from firing when they are dropped and other features that make them safe......

You can't make a car safe against intentional harm......same with a gun.

Gun accidental deaths in 2013... 505...with over 320 million guns in private hands at the time.

Car accidental deaths.... 2013.. over 35,000

But you need to pass a test, get a license and register a car before gaining the privilege to drive it. I don't see the harm in asking for gun owners to undergo a similar process.

Are you stupid in the head??
Firearm ownership is an right, car ownership not so much.
Dumbass

Deja vu... asshat

Asshat is reserved for our commander in chief...

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

You're an asshole is what you are.
Someone who says "Im a gun owner. I'm pro 2A. But my gun isnt the problem. It's that guy's gun over there. You need to ban that." is an anti gunner and an asshole.
Obama's EOs will do next to nothing.
There are no measures that will make it harder for criminals to obtain guns, unless we ban burglary, theft, and being a felon in possession of a gun.

 

[CowboyTed]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Most all firearms used in crimes are stolen...

Not true...
Inside the Black Market for Guns

 

[The Rabbi]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Most all firearms used in crimes are stolen...

Not true...
Inside the Black Market for Guns

The article has been debunked.

 

[Rustic]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Most all firearms used in crimes are stolen...

Not true...
Inside the Black Market for Guns

...which at one time were stolen, BTW not from guns shows. So much for the myth of the gun show loophole.
Lol

 

[2aguy]

I'm a gun owner, most of my friends are gun owners, but i'm confused... What is the problem that most conservatives have with President Obama's Gun Control ideas? I hear the speeches, read the plans, watched the town hall and listen to commentary on both sides until my ears bleed and I still don't understand the conservative position.

Everything that the President has suggested makes sense to me. I don't feel threatened about losing my guns, and I don't think that a responsible citizen's ability to buy a gun is being threatened. I think anything that helps keep guns out of the wrong hands is a good idea, it will save lives! The only point I hear from conservatives on why they object is that they think there is a hidden agenda by the Left to take away all guns. That is ridiculous, paranoid and unrealistic, there must be something more...

Why does the pro-gun base object to background checks and regulations that will make it harder for criminals or irresponsible individuals to own a gun? I just don't understand the argument. Please enlighten me.


View attachment 59771

Three of the first four posts supply your answer all in the same way: the old Slippery Slope fallacy.

Post 11, as is his wont, prefers the Strawman.

The "slippery slope" argument is the one that I do not understand. Why oppose something that makes sense in fear of possible future proposals that may or may not take away your rights? Why not do what is right now in an effort to help a big problem (even if it just helps a little) and fight proposals that impede your rights if/when they are proposed?

because this is not the first time people have demanded registration of guns to keep people safe......it happened in Germany, Britain and Australia....the most prominent and known examples...then years later...they banned and confiscated all guns.

This is not made up, it has actually happened......

and in the worst case scenario...12 million people were sent to the gas chambers when Europe was disarmed.

2aguy, you've been the most intelligent on the subject so far and I appreciate the information as well as your opinion on the matter. I just don't think your fears of mass confiscation or another holocaust is realistic. Background checks, a gun registry, and a
training/accreditation program are all excellent ideas that would be help to ensure only responsible people own guns. This will certainly help reduce misuse, accidents, and unnecessary death.

If down the line legislation is passed to confiscate guns then that would be a shame but that will only happen with the majority support of the citizens of our democracy. If that is the will of the majority then so be it. That is the principle that our country is founded on. In the meanwhile, why can't we just take it one action at a time?

As the head of Gun Owners of America points out ….Rights are not up for a vote. The majority of democrats in the south did not think blacks should be able to vote……and blacks were a minority then……so, did they deserve the right to vote or not?

 

[2aguy]

I see that point flew right over your head, so let's try something else:

Can you name me one major issue of Democrats that ever stopped at one place: one that never advanced as the years went on?

Your problem seems to be that you don't want to look at the big picture, you just want to look at what's in front of you. But with liberalism, it's always about the big picture.

Before Commie Care was passed, we told people it was all about more government. Opponents said it was all about the civil right that was never written about people getting medical care.

Listen to any White House spokesperson on the issue today. 14 million people now have health insurance. What does that mean? Democrats created 14 million more government dependents. The more government dependents we have in this country, the more likely Democrat voters in the future. But you think politicians actually care if you have health insurance or not? And they brag about this government dependency like it's something to be proud of. There is nothing to celebrate when we create more government dependents.

Again, look at the big picture, because the little pictures will lead you there.

What goes over my head is how you and so many others can just characterize something as Democratic or Liberal then completely dismiss it. It is that kind of partisanship that is ruining our country. You accuse me of looking at what's in front of me like that's a bad thing. Perhaps we should all just simply look at the laws and proposals that are put in front of us in an objective way and play to the party.

They just don't dismiss it because it is done by democrats…..we have observed the history of democrat beliefs and actions…and dismiss it because of experience and history…..

 

[2aguy]

Gun culture in this country has gotten pretty far out there... its got me shaking my head and i'm a gun owner,. #embarrassing

1min 40sec
Guns for sale - inside an American gun show - BBC News

Did you think about that clip?

Do you realize that if a criminal wants that 400 dollar gun...and Universal Background checks were in place....then the criminals would do what they already do...they would send in a straw buyer, someone they know or hire to buy the gun because that buyer can pass a background check.....so Universal Background checks would still not stop that purchase.

And do you realize that Britain is 2x as violent as the United States....that the people of Britain are robbed and beaten at a higher rate than they are here?

And you know they still have gun crime in Britain...all the time...in fact, after the confiscation their gun crime spiked and then it fell back to the same level it was after the confiscation....do you realize that? They confiscated guns and all they got for it was the same level of gun violence they had before the confiscation...and more violent crime in general........


The difference between the U.S. and Europe and Australia....our criminals commit murder more often....it is not those people at the gun show that are the problem...it is career criminals......our criminals murder more often than the criminals in Britain, Europe and Australia even though they have the same ability to get the guns they want and need.

Even in Japan.....they have had gang wars over there...and are concerned about another one that might break out...the gangs there are buying guns and hiring hit men.....so even in Japan, when their criminals want to murder people, they can get the guns they want and need.....

Most of the time they just don't choose to murder as often.....

You keep bringing up confiscation... Nobody is proposing confiscation! You are chasing the invisible agenda again... People are frustrated at Washington, but the problem is right here, people being partisan, close minded, and oppositional just for the sake of being oppositional. It hinders progress... wish more pro-gunners would be more pro-active.

Confiscation happens after registration…in Germany it was 20 years after registration happened…..

 

[2aguy]

No...sorry. Owning a gun is aRight....the democrats used literacy tests to keep blacks from exercising their right to vote....they also used Poll taxes to block blacks from voting....that is why both are Un constitutional and violate the 14th amendment.....

we simply have to bring cases based on the 14th Amendment to defeat many of these taxes and bans.....

guns are already safe....they have safety features to keep them from firing when they are dropped and other features that make them safe......

You can't make a car safe against intentional harm......same with a gun.

Gun accidental deaths in 2013... 505...with over 320 million guns in private hands at the time.

Car accidental deaths.... 2013.. over 35,000

But to drive a car you need to pass a test, get a license and register each car you own before gaining the privilege to drive it. I don't see the harm in asking for gun owners to undergo a similar process.

And requiring blacks to pay a Poll Tax to vote…..what was wrong with that…it wasn't really that much…right? And requiring them to pass a literacy test to vote…I mean..what was wrong with that…don't you want to make sure that voters can read?

What you propose are violations of the 14th Amendment and 5th amendment…..