Gun Ownership / Laws Discussion & Debate

Instead of wading threw this NRA Sewage of bullshit, a simple question, which you guys can't answer.

Pretend for a moment you are speaking to the mother of Christina-Taylor Green. (The little girl killed by Jared Loughner.)

I want to hear what argument you would use to explain to her why a crazy person should be allowed to buy a gun because you have a delusion you can fight off the government with a handgun.

Go on. I'd like to hear what one of you would actually say to her.


The same thing I would say if she had been killed by a drunk driver or a hatchet wielding serial killer...I wouldn't blame the car, or the alcohol, or the hatchet...I would blame the person responsible.

Cars, hatchets and alcohol are not designed for the purpose of killing people. Guns are.

But to the point, we don't give crazy people cars. They have to get a license, and it's not an easy license to get. Then a car seller makes sure they get insurance and a loan, neither of which a crazy person can get easily.
 
Again, you lost any credibility in this argument when you blamed her dad for not being Mr. Crazy Vigilante...

really Joe are you saying you've had enough? Come on Joe you don't own a gun yet you for some reason think you can dictate that I shouldn't have one either. shame oin you.

No, you're just a crazy person, and I don't waste my time talking to crazy people.

If you want to have a sane discussion about this subject, then I waste my time.

So go ahead and go back to looking for those black UN helicopters...
 
Explain to me what compelling reason there is that Jared Loughner should be able to buy a gun with an extra large clip.... oh, wait, excuse me "magazine"....
Actually it works the other way.

It’s incumbent upon the state to demonstrate a compelling governmental interest as to why a given right may be preempted; without a rational basis to restrict access to firearms, any such legislation would likely fail Constitutional muster.

That’s not to say, of course, there isn’t a rational basis. But Heller/McDonald makes this a rather difficult hurtle to negotiate.

As I noted earlier, it will take decades to determine where the Constitutional lines may be drawn with regard to reasonable restrictions.

But, no they shouldn't be. There should be common sense applied.

For instance, I firmly believe in the first amendment's protections on freedom of speech and religion.

But the crazy Phelps clan going to military funerals to harrass the families is beyond a line.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson.
 
Actually there are a slew of gun laws on the books already, which, if enforced, quell many of the public's fears. Historically LE has been lax and even unsuccessful enforcing them, leading to public outcry that stronger more restrictive laws are needed. There is one possible exception, the intention of the Second Amendment, does not envision automatic weapons. As such it could be argued that these weapons do not fall under the protection of the Second Amendment and therefore are illegal.

Otherwise, any discussion or debate over whether or not our right to bear arms could or would ever be taken away by Congressional repeal is surely intended for entertainment purposes only. Congress is the the only government branch with the power to repeal the Amendments to the Constitution and even so the successful exercise of that power requires unanimous agreement. Of that ever happening, we need not fear, since I doubt that Congress agrees on the time. Thus, public concern about the subject can be put out to pasture, as it is unlikely this bunch could reach a quorum to discuss repeal. much less have the votes to do it.

But let's say for argument's sake that Congress by some hook or crook had the votes to repeal a Constitutional Amendment. Can you imagine the number of man-hours and the amount of man-power needed for the task. Not to mention the cost, which would be astronomical.

Statistically the approximate numbers of illegals in the country are a known. However, to date no process or nebulous plan has been hatched by even the most ardent Congressional member as to how to expeditiously find and remove them.

Guns are legal, so it is doubtful that there is much data in existence regarding how many guns there are, who has them and where.. Lacking such vital information reduces any attempt to remove them from anyone. In fact any such undertaking would be on a par course with a flea climbing up a dog's leg with rape on its mind. In other words, IMPOSSIBLE.

Please, don't stop debating the subject, but do stop worrying about whether or not it will ever come to fruition.

YOu see, the thing is, I don't accept the second amendment was ever about unrestricted gun ownership in case the nutters had to overthrow the government, which is what the crazy people believe. Unfortunately, the crazy people have managed to intimidate everyone else into not enforcing common sense laws.

If the laws had been vigorously enforced, if real background checks were done, if we closed the gun show loophole, and so on.

As for enforcement, the fact is, most of us pay our taxes without an IRS auditor coming to our house. Why? Because the IRS makes a pretty serious example when they catch someone cheating.

So laws are part of the problem, but so is enforcement.

Clearly written, well enforced laws would have kept Jared Loughner from getting a gun with a big clip. It would have stopped the VA Tech shooter as well.
 
Ive decided you dont have the "privilege" of the First amendment anymore Joe.

So you have to STFU now, its for your own good.

I promise.
 
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Headline in my morning paper: shotgun sales up 400 percent since home invasion that occurRed over the weekend.

Doesnt sound like the people are with you Joe. And CT is a red state?

Nope. Deep deep Blue.

:eusa_whistle:
 
Headline in my morning paper: shotgun sales up 400 percent since home invasion that occurRed over the weekend.

Doesnt sound like the people are with you Joe. And CT is a red state?

Nope. Deep deep Blue.

:eusa_whistle:

YOu mean instead of selling one they sold four? Seriously?

I don't deny that RESPONSIBLE LICENSED people should be allowed to buy guns.

I just don't think crazy people and criminals should be allowed to buy them.

Not sure why you think this is a wonderful idea. I'd still love to hear what you'd say to the parents of the little girl who was killed by Loughner. What great constitutional "right" was being safeguarded by his ability to to purchase a gun despite being a dangerous schizophrenic.
 
Find where i addressed your points in the first place, who are you or i to decide who is crazy, i think you are nuts and shouldnt own anything sharp, plus i think your opinion is so whacked you shouldnt have the "privilege" of free speech.

Deal with it, one day i might be the one Mandating, you just havnt figured that out yet.

Allah u Akbar!

:eusa_whistle:
 
Find where i addressed your points in the first place, who are you or i to decide who is crazy, i think you are nuts and shouldnt own anything sharp, plus i think your opinion is so whacked you shouldnt have the "privilege" of free speech.

Deal with it, one day i might be the one Mandating, you just havnt figured that out yet.

Allah u Akbar!

:eusa_whistle:

Dude, I think you are proving my point about you gun nuts being whacked out of your mind.

Once again- please explain to the class what greater good is being preserved by letting schizophrenics have easy access to guns.

It's a pretty simple question, and you can't answer it.
 
Shame on you for using the tragedy of those who have suffered for your own sick game you play here.

It isn't a tragedy. An earthquake is a tragedy. a Tsunami is a tragedy.

A crazy person buying a gun and shooting people because it is too easy to get guns and the nutters have intimidated people into not enforcing the laws is a TRAVESTY, not a tragedy.

The inmates have taken over the asylum, and that's the problem.

Most Americans want common sense gun control, but this small fringe of crazy gun owners have intimidated politicians into not doing their jobs.
 
Headline in my morning paper: shotgun sales up 400 percent since home invasion that occurRed over the weekend.

Doesnt sound like the people are with you Joe. And CT is a red state?

Nope. Deep deep Blue.

:eusa_whistle:

YOu mean instead of selling one they sold four? Seriously?

I don't deny that RESPONSIBLE LICENSED people should be allowed to buy guns.

I just don't think crazy people and criminals should be allowed to buy them.

Not sure why you think this is a wonderful idea. I'd still love to hear what you'd say to the parents of the little girl who was killed by Loughner. What great constitutional "right" was being safeguarded by his ability to to purchase a gun despite being a dangerous schizophrenic.

You see Joe heres your problem, you have already deemed me crazy and by your standards all crazy people shouldn't have firearms. Joe Guess what Most police departments do some from of psychiatric evaluation, I've been through it. So Joe you would be wrong about me. By who's standards do we use to qualify people as sane or insane?

OH and by the way you do realize the police are not obligated to protect you
And you never did answer how many mass shootings have we had at a gun show.

And further more the gun show loophole you keep mentioning is from the anti gunner theme song. They have it beat into your head. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Every gun show I go to they do back ground checks and you have to have your purchace permits ready before any handgun purchase. So what loopholes are you parroting about?

I can take any firearm I own and sale it to anyone I wish and it's legal, So Joe it's not the "gun show loophole" blues that's your problem You gun grabbers need to through that worn out record away.
 
Shame on you for using the tragedy of those who have suffered for your own sick game you play here.

It isn't a tragedy. An earthquake is a tragedy. a Tsunami is a tragedy.

A crazy person buying a gun and shooting people because it is too easy to get guns and the nutters have intimidated people into not enforcing the laws is a TRAVESTY, not a tragedy.

The inmates have taken over the asylum, and that's the problem.

Most Americans want common sense gun control, but this small fringe of crazy gun owners have intimidated politicians into not doing their jobs.

Joe enough already with a crazyperson buying a gun bullshit, whats to stop a crazy person from breaking into a home and stealing a gun? How about we do this lock all crazy people up? It's a win win for everybody.
 
[
You see Joe heres your problem, you have already deemed me crazy and by your standards all crazy people shouldn't have firearms. Joe Guess what Most police departments do some from of psychiatric evaluation, I've been through it. So Joe you would be wrong about me. By who's standards do we use to qualify people as sane or insane?

I don't know what your mental state was when you were supposedly a LEO, but you are pretty clearly nuts now.

OH and by the way you do realize the police are not obligated to protect you
And you never did answer how many mass shootings have we had at a gun show.

Because it's not relevent to my point. What greater good is served by letting crazy people guy guns. That a crazy person isn't going to shit where he eats isn't much of an evidence of anything, really. Of course the bad guys aren't going to shoot up a gun show, and shine a glaring light on that.

I can take any firearm I own and sale it to anyone I wish and it's legal, So Joe it's not the "gun show loophole" blues that's your problem You gun grabbers need to through that worn out record away.

Gee, and so when that gun you sold at a gun show ends up in the hands of a street gang or a Mexican Drug Cartel, it's nice to see that you excercised your rights, because that's the important thing.
 
As a retired LEO I can tell you that it takes far too long for the cops to respond to your 911 calls. In some cases it could take more than 20 minutes in the big cities and on busy nights it could take hours. Be a victim if you like. I opt not to.
You are 100% correct
 

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