Guns. I'm just throwing my point of view out there. If I'm wrong then explain it to me.

[yiostheoy]

La. Is a deep red state wh red state gun nut laws .

AND lots of KKK there too.

Never go there unless you are lily white and gun loving.

 

[yiostheoy]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

Yeah there's no "gun problem". We don't have James Holmses and Jared Loughners and Adam Lanzas at all. These are all staged in New Mexico.

What a self-delusional asshole. We are a gun-OBSESSED nation. We're a culture of violence and death and with it paramiliary cops. It's on every TV, in every movie theater (sometimes even live) and in every other medium. But we have "no gun problem". What a dipshit.

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs. Nobody takes a bag of coke into a movie theater and overdoses a bunch of strangers. So there's that.

The overwhelming majority of the law abiding citizens are obsessed about their Constitutional rights. Those mass killers you mentioned could have used bombs instead of guns. Timothy Mcveigh killed hundreds without firing a shot. The 9/11 hijackers killed thousands.

People who love the freedoms the Constitution afford us will not let the fears of people like yourself strip them from us.

There is not much you can do about a bomber.

But most Negroes and Mexicans are not smart enough to build a bomb -- so good news and bad news.

 

[yiostheoy]

I've always viewed the gun problem similarly to the way I view the drug problem. It's an unfortunate situation that is only made more unfortunate when you make the people that want to use these things criminals for doing so. Supply and demand exists regardless of what the law has to say about it. If the consumer wants something bad enough and is willing to pay the price, somebody is willing to break the law to make money from that demand. You will never stop the movement and sale of drugs and guns. All the law can decide is who will make money off that demand. It's either going to be legitimate businesses that employ people and pay taxes, or dangerous and unregulated black market dealers. It seems to me that the only intelligent thing to do is to not make these things illegal so we can at least maintain some control. That comes with its own set of issues to overcome, but I adamantly believe that it's a clear cut greater good kind of situation.

But then again, in other countries, guns aren't so much of a problem.

Other countries have knife crimes and clubbing crimes and garrote crimes.

 

[yiostheoy]

Excuse the hell out of me. I voted for the republican party, sorry kids. I have seen the flip side of this, and guns people scare the holy hell out of me. And thugs with guns scare me even more, and this pro gun stuff just feeds into those bad actors in the shadows, the people you fear the most. If we just got rid off the damned things, most of you wouldn't be so damned paranoid about protecting yourselves, either.

I could not bring myself to vote for either Hillary (who was more experienced and sane but very anti gun) or Trump (who was inexperienced and insane but pro gun). So I voted for the CIA guy.

Now I have a clear conscience.

 

[2aguy]

once again you try to shift the blame.
A person commits a crime because he chooses to commit a crime.
A person doesn't graduate HS because he chooses not to graduate HS

And against excuses for why nothing should ever be done, and it'll boil down to because you can do something, everyone can do it, so therefore do nothing.

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think?

like Louisiana


Yes.....The major cities in Lousiana have democrats mayors and have had democrat mayors for decades......and they release violent criminals over and over again, even violent gun offenders.......

You can't stop gun crime if you keep allowing violent criminals to go back on the streets or give them bail after violent gun offences and they go and murder people.......

nothing you propose would stop these criminals....our concept of actually locking up violent gun offenders for 30 years stops future crime...the very thing you say you want...

La. Is a deep red state wh red state gun nut laws .

The major cities all have democrat mayors for decades......who let the gun criminals out of jail....and spend their money on everything except for police.

 

[2aguy]

once again you try to shift the blame.
A person commits a crime because he chooses to commit a crime.
A person doesn't graduate HS because he chooses not to graduate HS

And against excuses for why nothing should ever be done, and it'll boil down to because you can do something, everyone can do it, so therefore do nothing.

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

you cannot prevent a person from choosing to break the law. All you can do is act after he breaks the law.

Which of course is absolute rubbish designed to make your "do nothing" position look good.

If you can't prevent a person from choosing to break the law, then why are crime rates different in different countries and even in different states?

Great historical world leaders were great because they weren't reactionary. People like Peter the Great went out to solve the problems, people like Nicolas II were reactionary and oversaw the destruction of the Russian monarchy.

The same in the modern era. If you sit back and say nothing can be done until it's been done, then you will fail, as America is failing.

The people are different. The Japanese are law abiding and revere central authority...the Brits used to be the same way....

We don't have a do nothing attitude.....we actually know how to stop violence, you catch violent criminals, put them in jail and you don't let them out....meanwhile, you guys keep letting them out...even the proven, violent gun criminals...and then you wonder why people are getting shot....

Look at the types of crime that the California democrats are willing to let back into society...and notice that the Republicans and the NRA are fighting to keep these criminals in jail...

California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.

Now criminals convicted of the following crimes are eligible to be released from prison early: rape by intoxication, rape of an unconscious person, human trafficking involving sex acts with minors, drive-by shooting, assault with a deadly weapon, taking a hostage, domestic violence involving trauma,

supplying a firearm to a gang member,


felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds

and false imprisonment of an elder. Just to name a few.

 

[2aguy]

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

you cannot prevent a person from choosing to break the law. All you can do is act after he breaks the law.

Which of course is absolute rubbish designed to make your "do nothing" position look good.

If you can't prevent a person from choosing to break the law, then why are crime rates different in different countries and even in different states?

Great historical world leaders were great because they weren't reactionary. People like Peter the Great went out to solve the problems, people like Nicolas II were reactionary and oversaw the destruction of the Russian monarchy.

The same in the modern era. If you sit back and say nothing can be done until it's been done, then you will fail, as America is failing.

Crime rates are different because people who choose to break the law don't do as well in society. Those that choose not to break the law have better educations and better jobs and don't have to live in shit hole areas

And like I said before I do not have a do nothing approach. I am all for doing something like locking up violent criminals for very long sentences.

And FYI I'm not failing. I'm doing just fine because I made good choices.

I don't want or need some "leader" telling me how to live my life nor do I have any desire or need to tell other people how to live their lives

Okay, so people who don't break the law are more likely to have a better education, and don't live in shit holes.

So, having shit holes where education is poor, where things that might change those shit holes aren't done, and where kids grow up without much hope, don't see the relevance of schooling because their peers don't have schooling and where they see prejudice and whatnot all around them, isn't going to make anything better, right?

So, surely then something needs to be done. Education for a start. In the US it's poor. Kids get to learn literature when they can't read properly, they get to learn history when they don't give a fuck, and they'lre going to grow up without using any of the knowledge they've learned in school, not much of it is going to help them to progress in the world, and yet the politicians' answer is to carry on doing things as they've been done before because.... because they want these people to stay where the fuck they are.

Look to Europe where many countries, especially Germanic and Scandinavian countries, will try and deal with these problems, and they'll have far less crime, far less problems. They won't always succeed, but in trying there is far more chance that people will not be stuck in the endless violence and hopelessness that exists in the US>

No...you have to start earlier....you can't have single teenage girls having children from multiple males without any of them marrying the mother and staying as an actual husband and father.....they have created young male sociopaths with no impulse control......you have to deal with that problem and the rest of the problems become fixable....

 

[2aguy]

I've always viewed the gun problem similarly to the way I view the drug problem. It's an unfortunate situation that is only made more unfortunate when you make the people that want to use these things criminals for doing so. Supply and demand exists regardless of what the law has to say about it. If the consumer wants something bad enough and is willing to pay the price, somebody is willing to break the law to make money from that demand. You will never stop the movement and sale of drugs and guns. All the law can decide is who will make money off that demand. It's either going to be legitimate businesses that employ people and pay taxes, or dangerous and unregulated black market dealers. It seems to me that the only intelligent thing to do is to not make these things illegal so we can at least maintain some control. That comes with its own set of issues to overcome, but I adamantly believe that it's a clear cut greater good kind of situation.

But then again, in other countries, guns aren't so much of a problem.

That’s because in other countries violence isn’t sanctioned as a legitimate means of conflict resolution.

It isn't sanctioned here. Unless you mean the democrat party.....they sanction it...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Crime rates are different because people who choose to break the law don't do as well in society. Those that choose not to break the law have better educations and better jobs and don't have to live in shit hole areas

And like I said before I do not have a do nothing approach. I am all for doing something like locking up violent criminals for very long sentences.

And FYI I'm not failing. I'm doing just fine because I made good choices.

I don't want or need some "leader" telling me how to live my life nor do I have any desire or need to tell other people how to live their lives

Okay, so people who don't break the law are more likely to have a better education, and don't live in shit holes.

So, having shit holes where education is poor, where things that might change those shit holes aren't done, and where kids grow up without much hope, don't see the relevance of schooling because their peers don't have schooling and where they see prejudice and whatnot all around them, isn't going to make anything better, right?

So, surely then something needs to be done. Education for a start. In the US it's poor. Kids get to learn literature when they can't read properly, they get to learn history when they don't give a fuck, and they'lre going to grow up without using any of the knowledge they've learned in school, not much of it is going to help them to progress in the world, and yet the politicians' answer is to carry on doing things as they've been done before because.... because they want these people to stay where the fuck they are.

Look to Europe where many countries, especially Germanic and Scandinavian countries, will try and deal with these problems, and they'll have far less crime, far less problems. They won't always succeed, but in trying there is far more chance that people will not be stuck in the endless violence and hopelessness that exists in the US>

You answered your own question and didn't even realize it

"When they don't give a fuck"

There it is. Shit holes are shit holes because the people living in them DON'T GIVE A FUCK. And if they don't I won't

But the point is that people can give a fuck if certain things happen to them during childhood. You're trying to make out that a baby is born and from that moment on they're heading for the electric chair and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

I disagree totally. When kids get the support they need, when education is based on their needs, based on turning them into productive adults, then the numbers who end up being total fuckheads will be reduced.

Again the question of why there are more fuckheads in some places than in other places. Usually it's down to how the society around them deals with problems. The worse they are, like Louisiana, the worse the people become, the harder it becomes to reverse course and get things back to being sensible. The more people like you pretend there is nothing that can be done.

here we go again

"it's not their fault they don't give a fuck"
" it's not their fault if they're fat"
"it's not their fault if they're criminals"

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

 

[Skull Pilot]

once again you try to shift the blame.
A person commits a crime because he chooses to commit a crime.
A person doesn't graduate HS because he chooses not to graduate HS

And against excuses for why nothing should ever be done, and it'll boil down to because you can do something, everyone can do it, so therefore do nothing.

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

And government can be proactive by ensuring everyone have ample access to early, comprehensive mental health services.

Yes, that's the difference, being pro-active as opposed to the US where views like Skull Pilot's are often heard. The whole "I don't give a fuck, I only care about money, fuck those around me, I don't care" sort of attitude which, I suppose, is the sort of attitude that causes all empires to fall. Money becomes the God.

So tell me how does saying I, by all measures a law abiding and upstanding member of society, cannot own a firearm going to stop the person who chooses to use a firearm in a crime?

 

[Skull Pilot]

once again you try to shift the blame.
A person commits a crime because he chooses to commit a crime.
A person doesn't graduate HS because he chooses not to graduate HS

And against excuses for why nothing should ever be done, and it'll boil down to because you can do something, everyone can do it, so therefore do nothing.

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

And government can be proactive by ensuring everyone have ample access to early, comprehensive mental health services.

Yes, that's the difference, being pro-active as opposed to the US where views like Skull Pilot's are often heard. The whole "I don't give a fuck, I only care about money, fuck those around me, I don't care" sort of attitude which, I suppose, is the sort of attitude that causes all empires to fall. Money becomes the God.

You can't be proactive for someone else.

And where did I ever say I only care about money?

But I do know that you have a pathological need to control the lives of other people whereas I do nit share that pathology

 

[skookerasbil]

You are wrong.

Number one, there is no "gun problem", so it's a waste to compare it to drugs.

Yeah there's no "gun problem". We don't have James Holmses and Jared Loughners and Adam Lanzas at all. These are all staged in New Mexico.

What a self-delusional asshole. We are a gun-OBSESSED nation. We're a culture of violence and death and with it paramiliary cops. It's on every TV, in every movie theater (sometimes even live) and in every other medium. But we have "no gun problem". What a dipshit.

You do have a point that it's not comparable to drugs. Nobody takes a bag of coke into a movie theater and overdoses a bunch of strangers. So there's that.

that's right s0n.........we are a gun obsessed nation. FTMFW. Might as well buckle in........like for the rest of your life.

Your sentiments are shared by few.......and this is a politics forum. Gun grabbing has never been more irrelevant in our nations history.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Okay, so people who don't break the law are more likely to have a better education, and don't live in shit holes.

So, having shit holes where education is poor, where things that might change those shit holes aren't done, and where kids grow up without much hope, don't see the relevance of schooling because their peers don't have schooling and where they see prejudice and whatnot all around them, isn't going to make anything better, right?

So, surely then something needs to be done. Education for a start. In the US it's poor. Kids get to learn literature when they can't read properly, they get to learn history when they don't give a fuck, and they'lre going to grow up without using any of the knowledge they've learned in school, not much of it is going to help them to progress in the world, and yet the politicians' answer is to carry on doing things as they've been done before because.... because they want these people to stay where the fuck they are.

Look to Europe where many countries, especially Germanic and Scandinavian countries, will try and deal with these problems, and they'll have far less crime, far less problems. They won't always succeed, but in trying there is far more chance that people will not be stuck in the endless violence and hopelessness that exists in the US>

You answered your own question and didn't even realize it

"When they don't give a fuck"

There it is. Shit holes are shit holes because the people living in them DON'T GIVE A FUCK. And if they don't I won't

But the point is that people can give a fuck if certain things happen to them during childhood. You're trying to make out that a baby is born and from that moment on they're heading for the electric chair and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

I disagree totally. When kids get the support they need, when education is based on their needs, based on turning them into productive adults, then the numbers who end up being total fuckheads will be reduced.

Again the question of why there are more fuckheads in some places than in other places. Usually it's down to how the society around them deals with problems. The worse they are, like Louisiana, the worse the people become, the harder it becomes to reverse course and get things back to being sensible. The more people like you pretend there is nothing that can be done.

here we go again

"it's not their fault they don't give a fuck"
" it's not their fault if they're fat"
"it's not their fault if they're criminals"

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

Yeah, right, so six year olds, living in a house with a single mother who works 60 hours a week, in a ghetto surrounded by criminals, drugs, murders are going to go out there and make those changes, right?

Yes, actually when it comes to adults there has to be desire. But the problem is, people are shaped as kids, and they're not being shaped properly, so when they come to be adults and they don't get any help and they've grown up in a shitty area, then what?

All this "only individuals can do anything" lark is rubbish. In fact if you look around the western world you'll see that it's the opposite of what happens. We're not talking about making 100% of people into a massive success, just giving people the chance to get out. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't give them the chance, that they have to make this chance out of nothing, and break massive trends (the trends being the problems which will lead to an ever worse generation beyond.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You answered your own question and didn't even realize it

"When they don't give a fuck"

There it is. Shit holes are shit holes because the people living in them DON'T GIVE A FUCK. And if they don't I won't

But the point is that people can give a fuck if certain things happen to them during childhood. You're trying to make out that a baby is born and from that moment on they're heading for the electric chair and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

I disagree totally. When kids get the support they need, when education is based on their needs, based on turning them into productive adults, then the numbers who end up being total fuckheads will be reduced.

Again the question of why there are more fuckheads in some places than in other places. Usually it's down to how the society around them deals with problems. The worse they are, like Louisiana, the worse the people become, the harder it becomes to reverse course and get things back to being sensible. The more people like you pretend there is nothing that can be done.

here we go again

"it's not their fault they don't give a fuck"
" it's not their fault if they're fat"
"it's not their fault if they're criminals"

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

Yeah, right, so six year olds, living in a house with a single mother who works 60 hours a week, in a ghetto surrounded by criminals, drugs, murders are going to go out there and make those changes, right?

Yes, actually when it comes to adults there has to be desire. But the problem is, people are shaped as kids, and they're not being shaped properly, so when they come to be adults and they don't get any help and they've grown up in a shitty area, then what?

All this "only individuals can do anything" lark is rubbish. In fact if you look around the western world you'll see that it's the opposite of what happens. We're not talking about making 100% of people into a massive success, just giving people the chance to get out. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't give them the chance, that they have to make this chance out of nothing, and break massive trends (the trends being the problems which will lead to an ever worse generation beyond.

Why not?

I grew up with a single mother who was wacko bi polar and have been taking care of myself since I was 8

And the chances are all already there for people willing to take them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And against excuses for why nothing should ever be done, and it'll boil down to because you can do something, everyone can do it, so therefore do nothing.

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

And government can be proactive by ensuring everyone have ample access to early, comprehensive mental health services.

Yes, that's the difference, being pro-active as opposed to the US where views like Skull Pilot's are often heard. The whole "I don't give a fuck, I only care about money, fuck those around me, I don't care" sort of attitude which, I suppose, is the sort of attitude that causes all empires to fall. Money becomes the God.

You can't be proactive for someone else.

And where did I ever say I only care about money?

But I do know that you have a pathological need to control the lives of other people whereas I do nit share that pathology

Yes, you can be proactive for someone else. Peter the Great was proactive for his whole country. That's what great leaders do, they make things better for most people.

I didn't say you did say you only cared about money. I'm basically looking at what you're writing and coming to conclusions.

Pathological need huh?

No, actually I'm a realist. Firstly that the vast majority of people will be controlled. And they can be controlled in a good way or in a bad way. You seem to be willing to let people open to be controlled by bad forces. I'm wary of controlling people, but realize it has to be done. You think you can just descend into anarchy and hey, it'll be okay because that's what libertarianism's all about. But it doesn't work. No one place has ever worked as anarchy, because people will rise up and control.


I also understand that people are thrown into their lives, and the fumble and bumble around and they make lots of mistakes which they regret later on. It's a part of life. However sometimes you get lucky, like being born into a proactive country, and sometimes you get so fucked over, like being poor in the US.

Also I understand that people want to live life with certain things, health, education, jobs, and these are important. They're often more important than freedoms. People like to have freedoms, but freedoms don't put food on the table, don't give them hope for the future.

Where's America's hope right now? It's in politicians who shout the word "hope" as loud as they can and then do nothing about it. The US is losing hope because education sucks (unless you have money), healthcare sucks (unless you have money), jobs suck (unless you have money).... and that's what people end up wanting. They become obsessed with money, money buys you the hope that you need because the govt is so fucking useless in the US that it doesn't offer what people want first and foremost.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never said nothing should be done

I said those that choose to commit violent crimes should be incarcerated for mandatory and lengthy sentences to be served without parole

You never said nothing should be done, but you ooze nothing should be done every time you reply.

Yes, people who should commit violent crimes should be locked up, however society should also do what it can to prevent people from committing violent crimes, and the US certainly doesn't do this, and states like Louisiana most definitely want to make sure such a thing doesn't happen.

There are reasons some places are more violent that others, don't you think? And a lot of this will depend on how proactive the state government is.

And government can be proactive by ensuring everyone have ample access to early, comprehensive mental health services.

Yes, that's the difference, being pro-active as opposed to the US where views like Skull Pilot's are often heard. The whole "I don't give a fuck, I only care about money, fuck those around me, I don't care" sort of attitude which, I suppose, is the sort of attitude that causes all empires to fall. Money becomes the God.

You can't be proactive for someone else.

And where did I ever say I only care about money?

But I do know that you have a pathological need to control the lives of other people whereas I do nit share that pathology

Yes, you can be proactive for someone else. Peter the Great was proactive for his whole country. That's what great leaders do, they make things better for most people.

I didn't say you did say you only cared about money. I'm basically looking at what you're writing and coming to conclusions.

Pathological need huh?

No, actually I'm a realist. Firstly that the vast majority of people will be controlled. And they can be controlled in a good way or in a bad way. You seem to be willing to let people open to be controlled by bad forces. I'm wary of controlling people, but realize it has to be done. You think you can just descend into anarchy and hey, it'll be okay because that's what libertarianism's all about. But it doesn't work. No one place has ever worked as anarchy, because people will rise up and control.


I also understand that people are thrown into their lives, and the fumble and bumble around and they make lots of mistakes which they regret later on. It's a part of life. However sometimes you get lucky, like being born into a proactive country, and sometimes you get so fucked over, like being poor in the US.

Also I understand that people want to live life with certain things, health, education, jobs, and these are important. They're often more important than freedoms. People like to have freedoms, but freedoms don't put food on the table, don't give them hope for the future.

Where's America's hope right now? It's in politicians who shout the word "hope" as loud as they can and then do nothing about it. The US is losing hope because education sucks (unless you have money), healthcare sucks (unless you have money), jobs suck (unless you have money).... and that's what people end up wanting. They become obsessed with money, money buys you the hope that you need because the govt is so fucking useless in the US that it doesn't offer what people want first and foremost.

and since people can be controlled you might as well be the one controlling them right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

But the point is that people can give a fuck if certain things happen to them during childhood. You're trying to make out that a baby is born and from that moment on they're heading for the electric chair and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

I disagree totally. When kids get the support they need, when education is based on their needs, based on turning them into productive adults, then the numbers who end up being total fuckheads will be reduced.

Again the question of why there are more fuckheads in some places than in other places. Usually it's down to how the society around them deals with problems. The worse they are, like Louisiana, the worse the people become, the harder it becomes to reverse course and get things back to being sensible. The more people like you pretend there is nothing that can be done.

here we go again

"it's not their fault they don't give a fuck"
" it's not their fault if they're fat"
"it's not their fault if they're criminals"

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

Yeah, right, so six year olds, living in a house with a single mother who works 60 hours a week, in a ghetto surrounded by criminals, drugs, murders are going to go out there and make those changes, right?

Yes, actually when it comes to adults there has to be desire. But the problem is, people are shaped as kids, and they're not being shaped properly, so when they come to be adults and they don't get any help and they've grown up in a shitty area, then what?

All this "only individuals can do anything" lark is rubbish. In fact if you look around the western world you'll see that it's the opposite of what happens. We're not talking about making 100% of people into a massive success, just giving people the chance to get out. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't give them the chance, that they have to make this chance out of nothing, and break massive trends (the trends being the problems which will lead to an ever worse generation beyond.

Why not?

I grew up with a single mother who was wacko bi polar and have been taking care of myself since I was 8

And the chances are all already there for people willing to take them.

This is the "I can do it, so everyone else can". Sorry, just because it's not hot where you are, doesn't mean there isn't any global warming.

Many people can't just go out into the world and do as you have done, we know this. It's fact. We see it all the time.

Why does the US have ghettos when most other first world countries don't? Yes, they have poorer areas, but they don't have what the US has got. The simple answer is because the US is not proactive. It is a country for the rich, by the rich. The rich control everything. They're happy they don't have to pay much in taxes, they're happy that poor people are killing each other and keeping people in fear, they're happy with the way they control govt, and they tell you how to think, so you just go off and think like that.

There are plenty of reasons why other people struggle. People's brains work differently, people have mental problems (which many states deal with by locking up the people with mental problems, rather than dealing with the problems before they get there), if you have mental problems, your life is going to be much harder in the US than in many other first world countries. Then you have learning difficulties. If you're poor and have learning difficulties, you're fucked. In fact many people are born (we damn you don't have an abortion) and then they're fucked from day one through their life, destined to be in a gang dealing drugs. Wonderful.

But fuck it, who gives a fuck, you did well, so fuck all those who aren't doing well, right?

 

[RealDave]

one other thing you are forgetting is that a firearm is a very simple device....any jimmyearl with some metal, a bench lathe and 12 ton press and some know how, can manufacture a pretty decent quality firarm in his garage...google "khyber pass copy"

You can make drugs in your house. You can grow piot.

 

[Skull Pilot]

here we go again

"it's not their fault they don't give a fuck"
" it's not their fault if they're fat"
"it's not their fault if they're criminals"

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

Yeah, right, so six year olds, living in a house with a single mother who works 60 hours a week, in a ghetto surrounded by criminals, drugs, murders are going to go out there and make those changes, right?

Yes, actually when it comes to adults there has to be desire. But the problem is, people are shaped as kids, and they're not being shaped properly, so when they come to be adults and they don't get any help and they've grown up in a shitty area, then what?

All this "only individuals can do anything" lark is rubbish. In fact if you look around the western world you'll see that it's the opposite of what happens. We're not talking about making 100% of people into a massive success, just giving people the chance to get out. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't give them the chance, that they have to make this chance out of nothing, and break massive trends (the trends being the problems which will lead to an ever worse generation beyond.

Why not?

I grew up with a single mother who was wacko bi polar and have been taking care of myself since I was 8

And the chances are all already there for people willing to take them.

This is the "I can do it, so everyone else can". Sorry, just because it's not hot where you are, doesn't mean there isn't any global warming.

Many people can't just go out into the world and do as you have done, we know this. It's fact. We see it all the time.

Why does the US have ghettos when most other first world countries don't? Yes, they have poorer areas, but they don't have what the US has got. The simple answer is because the US is not proactive. It is a country for the rich, by the rich. The rich control everything. They're happy they don't have to pay much in taxes, they're happy that poor people are killing each other and keeping people in fear, they're happy with the way they control govt, and they tell you how to think, so you just go off and think like that.

There are plenty of reasons why other people struggle. People's brains work differently, people have mental problems (which many states deal with by locking up the people with mental problems, rather than dealing with the problems before they get there), if you have mental problems, your life is going to be much harder in the US than in many other first world countries. Then you have learning difficulties. If you're poor and have learning difficulties, you're fucked. In fact many people are born (we damn you don't have an abortion) and then they're fucked from day one through their life, destined to be in a gang dealing drugs. Wonderful.

But fuck it, who gives a fuck, you did well, so fuck all those who aren't doing well, right?

Yeah I did it so anyone can.
Unlike you I believe people can accomplish things if they choose.
You think everyone needs to be told what to do and how to live the way you think they should live

and tell me again how many trillions of dollars we have spent on welfare programs and the war on poverty?

The help is out there if people want it

And FYI the poor in this country are no worse off than the poor in any other first world industrialized country

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

 

[frigidweirdo]

Here we go again,

"nothing can change"
"why should I do anything"
"I don't give a fuck about anyone else but me"

Anything can change but it takes a choice by the individual to make that change. It cannot be forced upon them the way you would want it to be.

Yeah, right, so six year olds, living in a house with a single mother who works 60 hours a week, in a ghetto surrounded by criminals, drugs, murders are going to go out there and make those changes, right?

Yes, actually when it comes to adults there has to be desire. But the problem is, people are shaped as kids, and they're not being shaped properly, so when they come to be adults and they don't get any help and they've grown up in a shitty area, then what?

All this "only individuals can do anything" lark is rubbish. In fact if you look around the western world you'll see that it's the opposite of what happens. We're not talking about making 100% of people into a massive success, just giving people the chance to get out. But you seem to be saying that we shouldn't give them the chance, that they have to make this chance out of nothing, and break massive trends (the trends being the problems which will lead to an ever worse generation beyond.

Why not?

I grew up with a single mother who was wacko bi polar and have been taking care of myself since I was 8

And the chances are all already there for people willing to take them.

This is the "I can do it, so everyone else can". Sorry, just because it's not hot where you are, doesn't mean there isn't any global warming.

Many people can't just go out into the world and do as you have done, we know this. It's fact. We see it all the time.

Why does the US have ghettos when most other first world countries don't? Yes, they have poorer areas, but they don't have what the US has got. The simple answer is because the US is not proactive. It is a country for the rich, by the rich. The rich control everything. They're happy they don't have to pay much in taxes, they're happy that poor people are killing each other and keeping people in fear, they're happy with the way they control govt, and they tell you how to think, so you just go off and think like that.

There are plenty of reasons why other people struggle. People's brains work differently, people have mental problems (which many states deal with by locking up the people with mental problems, rather than dealing with the problems before they get there), if you have mental problems, your life is going to be much harder in the US than in many other first world countries. Then you have learning difficulties. If you're poor and have learning difficulties, you're fucked. In fact many people are born (we damn you don't have an abortion) and then they're fucked from day one through their life, destined to be in a gang dealing drugs. Wonderful.

But fuck it, who gives a fuck, you did well, so fuck all those who aren't doing well, right?

Yeah I did it so anyone can.
Unlike you I believe people can accomplish things if they choose.
You think everyone needs to be told what to do and how to live the way you think they should live

and tell me again how many trillions of dollars we have spent on welfare programs and the war on poverty?

The help is out there if people want it

And FYI the poor in this country are no worse off than the poor in any other first world industrialized country

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

Where did I say people can accomplish things? Sure they can. People can, but not everyone can. And if you're in the ghettos then the chances are people aren't going to accomplish things. This isn't what I wish, this is the REALITY of parts of the US.

Again, I ask these questions and get vague answers back. Why does the US have the highest prison population in the first world? Why does it have ghettos worse than any country in the first world? There's something wrong in the US and a lot of people have been sucked in and they can't get out, and many of the people do want to get out, but they can't. They can't because they don't have the education, or they committed crimes when they were younger, and people won't give them the chances they need to do better for themselves. Then there are the ones who have grown used to that way of life and can't change.

This isn't about what I think people can or can't do, this is about what is happening in the US right now and which you ignore every time by saying 'well, I grew up with this kind of mother and I did okay", but yu didn't grow up in a fucking ghetto.