Guns save lives...3 home invaders, one armed citizen..doesn't go well for the invaders..

[Yarddog]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

 

[August West]

We seem to have a whole lot more "armed robbers" than normal countries do. Anyone else notice? God bless the 2nd for enabling criminals who wouldn`t have the balls to break into anything without a gun.

 

[August West]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

But his story is from an "actual NRA Source" and it includes an actual make believe conversation that somehow was recorded. Amazing!

 

[Rustic]

We seem to have a whole lot more "armed robbers" than normal countries do. Anyone else notice? God bless the 2nd for enabling criminals who wouldn`t have the balls to break into anything without a gun.

Execute violent criminals, Then you don’t have the problem repeat offenders

 

[Skull Pilot]

Now this is where the anti gunners go wrong.....these 3 criminals used guns in the commission of this crime....and yet, they are all going to be out of jail by 2023....

If you want to stop the criminal use of guns, an extra 10 years should be tacked on to their sentences...that would make sure that the thinking criminals would stop carrying guns when they plan to rob people.....so instead of under 4 year? They would be facing minimum 14 years in prison....that is how you stop gun crime...not by targeting the family that owned the gun that saved their lives...

his spring and summer, the perpetrators pleaded guilty, pursuant to plea bargains. For the Dec. 15 crime, Hines admitted guilt for second-degree burglary as a principal, and to larceny after breaking and entering. For the Dec. 17 crime against the Childress family, he pleaded to first-degree attempted burglary and to conspiracy. According to the N.C. Department of Public Safety, his projected release date is Sept. 30, 2023.

Victorin admitted guilt to second-degree burglary as an accessory after the fact for Dec. 15 burglary. For the Dec. 17 Childress invasion, he pleaded to conspiracy to commit first-degree burglary, and to attempted first-degree burglary. His projected release date is Feb. 21, 2023.

Spinks pleaded to attempted first-degree burglary and conspiracy for the Dec. 17 crime, and to second-degree burglary and larceny for the Dec. 15 crime. His projected release date is Oct. 6, 2023.

IMO it should be a 25 year minimum with no parole for any crime committed while in possession of a firearm

Then add 10 years if a shot is fired in the commission of a crime
Then add 20 years if an innocent person is injured and then add another 100 years if a person is killed

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

No need....the Centers for Disease Control actually studied defensive gun use....they determined that in an average year, Americans use their legal guns, just like the story from the thread....1.1 million times a year.

Keep in mind, this story, like most defensive gun events, did not result in a death, in particular, no victim was harmed .......

I am curious....would you rather this couple get grabbed by these guys and just hope for the best? If you had a chance to go back in time, would you take that gun away from that couple?

Be brave, answer the questions....

Is there a link to these 1 million events ?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

No need....the Centers for Disease Control actually studied defensive gun use....they determined that in an average year, Americans use their legal guns, just like the story from the thread....1.1 million times a year.

Keep in mind, this story, like most defensive gun events, did not result in a death, in particular, no victim was harmed .......

I am curious....would you rather this couple get grabbed by these guys and just hope for the best? If you had a chance to go back in time, would you take that gun away from that couple?

Be brave, answer the questions....

Is there a link to these 1 million events ?

That joker has used 1.5 million per year as his number in the past. Maybe he decided
that 4000+ times per day is a bit much?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

No need....the Centers for Disease Control actually studied defensive gun use....they determined that in an average year, Americans use their legal guns, just like the story from the thread....1.1 million times a year.

Keep in mind, this story, like most defensive gun events, did not result in a death, in particular, no victim was harmed .......

I am curious....would you rather this couple get grabbed by these guys and just hope for the best? If you had a chance to go back in time, would you take that gun away from that couple?

Be brave, answer the questions....

Is there a link to these 1 million events ?

That joker has used 1.5 million per year as his number in the past. Maybe he decided
that 4000+ times per day is a bit much?

Well there are 3 today so he has something to build on.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

But here's the problem. The people who support the guns, generally the right, are also the ones who don't deal with the causes of crime.

You talk about tougher sentencing. Er... the US is in the top two in the world for locking people up. Louisiana would be number one by a long way were it a nation, and has one of the highest murder rates in the US too.

 

[Rustic]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

But here's the problem. The people who support the guns, generally the right, are also the ones who don't deal with the causes of crime.

You talk about tougher sentencing. Er... the US is in the top two in the world for locking people up. Louisiana would be number one by a long way were it a nation, and has one of the highest murder rates in the US too.

We have no criminal control in this country, the vast majority of violent behavior is done by repeat offenders… you get rid of the repeat offenders you get rid of most of the violent crime

 

[2aguy]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

90% of murderers have long histories of crime and violence.....the shooters in Chicago, over 80% and more have prior arrest records and ties to gangs.....so if we just locked up actual criminals who use guns for crime, for 30 years.....that would end the gun violence problem in this country.....just like Japan did. The problem? Democrats don't want to keep violent felons locked up in prison. Why? I have no freaking idea...other than they need the crime and violence to push their agenda...

 

[2aguy]

We seem to have a whole lot more "armed robbers" than normal countries do. Anyone else notice? God bless the 2nd for enabling criminals who wouldn`t have the balls to break into anything without a gun.

You are mistaken.....Britain has way more "Hot" burglaries....where the criminals enter the home knowing the people are inside....because they don't have to be afraid of a gun owning home owner.....while here, criminals spend more time making sure no one is home.....so what you have more of in Britain is torture of innocent victims by criminals, to get them to hand over all of their valuables.....so you actually have more violent crime, you doofus, not less.....

What taking guns away from law abiding people does is encourage more violence against victims..since the police aren't there, and the victims are at the mercy of the criminals....

 

[Skull Pilot]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

guns don't have hands

 

[2aguy]

Now this is where the anti gunners go wrong.....these 3 criminals used guns in the commission of this crime....and yet, they are all going to be out of jail by 2023....

If you want to stop the criminal use of guns, an extra 10 years should be tacked on to their sentences...that would make sure that the thinking criminals would stop carrying guns when they plan to rob people.....so instead of under 4 year? They would be facing minimum 14 years in prison....that is how you stop gun crime...not by targeting the family that owned the gun that saved their lives...

his spring and summer, the perpetrators pleaded guilty, pursuant to plea bargains. For the Dec. 15 crime, Hines admitted guilt for second-degree burglary as a principal, and to larceny after breaking and entering. For the Dec. 17 crime against the Childress family, he pleaded to first-degree attempted burglary and to conspiracy. According to the N.C. Department of Public Safety, his projected release date is Sept. 30, 2023.

Victorin admitted guilt to second-degree burglary as an accessory after the fact for Dec. 15 burglary. For the Dec. 17 Childress invasion, he pleaded to conspiracy to commit first-degree burglary, and to attempted first-degree burglary. His projected release date is Feb. 21, 2023.

Spinks pleaded to attempted first-degree burglary and conspiracy for the Dec. 17 crime, and to second-degree burglary and larceny for the Dec. 15 crime. His projected release date is Oct. 6, 2023.

IMO it should be a 25 year minimum with no parole for any crime committed while in possession of a firearm

Then add 10 years if a shot is fired in the commission of a crime
Then add 20 years if an innocent person is injured and then add another 100 years if a person is killed

But actual crimes...rape, robbery and murder...not forgetting to renew your carry permit...that is just what the gun grabbers would want....

 

[Skull Pilot]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

But here's the problem. The people who support the guns, generally the right, are also the ones who don't deal with the causes of crime.

You talk about tougher sentencing. Er... the US is in the top two in the world for locking people up. Louisiana would be number one by a long way were it a nation, and has one of the highest murder rates in the US too.

People who support the bans and uber-regulation don't deal with the actual causes of crime either

 

[2aguy]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

No need....the Centers for Disease Control actually studied defensive gun use....they determined that in an average year, Americans use their legal guns, just like the story from the thread....1.1 million times a year.

Keep in mind, this story, like most defensive gun events, did not result in a death, in particular, no victim was harmed .......

I am curious....would you rather this couple get grabbed by these guys and just hope for the best? If you had a chance to go back in time, would you take that gun away from that couple?

Be brave, answer the questions....

Is there a link to these 1 million events ?

Here you go...the research discovered that the Centers For Disease Control was hiding...

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN



Abstract
In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to seven states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Data pertaining to the same sets of states from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995) allow these results to be extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole. CDC’s survey data confirm previous high estimates of DGU prevalence, disconfirm estimates derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey, and indicate that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.

=========



Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use



-------



Original version before he went back to revise it...

The actual paper by Kleck revealing the CDC hiding data..



SSRN Electronic Library

The timing of CDC’s addition of a DGU question to the BRFSS is of some interest. Prior to 1996, the BRFSS had never included a question about DGU. Kleck and Gertz (1995) conducted their survey in February through April 1993, presented their estimate that there were over 2 million DGUs in 1992 at the annual meetings of the American Society of Criminology in November 1994, and published it in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology in the Fall of 1995. CDC added a DGU question to the BRFSS the very first year they could do so after that 1995 publication, in the 1996 edition. CDC was not the only federal agency during the Clinton administration to field a survey addressing the prevalence of DGU at that particular time. The National Institute of Justice (NIJ) financed a national survey devoting even more detailed attention to estimating DGU prevalence, which was fielded in November and December 1994, just months after preliminary results of the 1993 Kleck/Gertz survey became known. Neither CDC nor NIJ had ever financed research into DGU before 1996. Perhaps there was just “something in the air” that motivated the two agencies to suddenly decide in 1994 to address the topic. Another interpretation, however, is that fielding of the surveys was triggered by the Kleck/Gertz findings that DGU was common, and that these agencies hoped to obtain lower DGU prevalence estimates than those obtained by Kleck/Gertz. Low estimates would have implied fewer beneficial uses of firearms, results that would have been far more congenial to the strongly pro-control positions of the Clinton administration.

CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns



Kleck's new paper—"What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?"—finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998.

Those polls, Kleck writes,

are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGU asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since. For example, the 1996 survey asked the DGU question of 5,484 people. The next-largest number questioned about DGU was 4,977 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), and sample sizes were much smaller in all the rest of surveys on the topic (Kleck 2001).

Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?" Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job. Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.

Kleck is less impressed with the fact that the question was only asked of people who admitted to owning guns in their home earlier in the survey, and that they asked no follow-up questions regarding the specific nature of the DGU incident.

From Kleck's own surveys, he found that only 79 percent of those who reported a DGU "had also reported a gun in their household at the time of the interview," so he thinks whatever numbers the CDC found need to be revised upward to account for that. (Kleck speculates that CDC showed a sudden interest in the question of DGUs starting in 1996 because Kleck's own famous/notorious survey had been published in 1995.)

At any rate, Kleck downloaded the datasets for those three years and found that the "weighted percent who reported a DGU...was 1.3% in 1996, 0.9% in 1997, 1.0% in 1998, and 1.07% in all three surveys combined."





Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn't do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

He concludes that the small difference between his estimate and the CDC's "can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs."

Kleck further details how much these CDC surveys confirmed his own controversial work:

The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996–1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.



This estimate, based on an enormous sample of 12,870 cases (unweighted) in a nationally representative sample, strongly confirms the 2.5 million past-12-months estimate obtained Kleck and Gertz (1995)....CDC's results, then, imply that guns were used defensively by victims about 3.6 times as often as they were used offensively by criminals.

 

[2aguy]

Awesome. Only 3999 more to go and we meet today’s quota of defensive gun uses.

Get to work, bitch.

No need....the Centers for Disease Control actually studied defensive gun use....they determined that in an average year, Americans use their legal guns, just like the story from the thread....1.1 million times a year.

Keep in mind, this story, like most defensive gun events, did not result in a death, in particular, no victim was harmed .......

I am curious....would you rather this couple get grabbed by these guys and just hope for the best? If you had a chance to go back in time, would you take that gun away from that couple?

Be brave, answer the questions....

Is there a link to these 1 million events ?

That joker has used 1.5 million per year as his number in the past. Maybe he decided
that 4000+ times per day is a bit much?

I clearly showed my numbers over and over....so for you, I will do it again...

Centers for Disease Control Number....1.1 million.

Department of Justice Number....1.5 million ....

All the rest....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Rustic]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

But here's the problem. The people who support the guns, generally the right, are also the ones who don't deal with the causes of crime.

You talk about tougher sentencing. Er... the US is in the top two in the world for locking people up. Louisiana would be number one by a long way were it a nation, and has one of the highest murder rates in the US too.

People who support the bans and uber-regulation don't deal with the actual causes of crime either

Yep, more frivolous gun laws are like putting a bandaid on a broken arm...

 

[2aguy]

We seem to have a whole lot more "armed robbers" than normal countries do. Anyone else notice? God bless the 2nd for enabling criminals who wouldn`t have the balls to break into anything without a gun.

This is what you get when good people are helpless against criminals....


============

An Englishman's home is his dungeon

Various reassuring types, from police spokesmen to the Economist, described the stabbing of the Moncktons as a "burglary gone wrong". If only more burglaries could go right, they imply, this sort of thing wouldn't happen.

But the trouble is that this kind of burglary - the kind most likely to go "wrong" - is now the norm in Britain. In America, it's called a "hot" burglary - a burglary that takes place when the homeowners are present - or a "home invasion", which is a much more accurate term. Just over 10 per cent of US burglaries are "hot" burglaries, and in my part of the world it's statistically insignificant: there is virtually zero chance of a New Hampshire home being broken into while the family are present.

But in England and Wales it's more than 50 per cent and climbing. Which is hardly surprising given the police's petty, well-publicised pursuit of those citizens who have the impertinence to resist criminals.

These days, even as he or she is being clobbered, the more thoughtful British subject is usually keeping an eye (the one that hasn't been poked out) on potential liability. Four years ago, Shirley Best, proprietor of the Rolander Fashion emporium, whose clients include Zara Phillips, was ironing some clothes when the proverbial two youths showed up. They pressed the hot iron into her flesh, burning her badly, and then stole her watch. "I was frightened to defend myself," said Miss Best. "I thought if I did anything I would be arrested." There speaks the modern British crime victim.

==========
Wealthy retired couple tortured by burglars who forced wife to walk on broken glass in £20,000 raid


wealthy couple were tortured by "Swat team" burglars who forced the wife to walk on broken glass before breaking one of her toes with a sledgehammer while stealing £20,000 of gold and jewels.

Professional burglars John McCarthy, 35, and Richard Leslie, 37, were branded "every householder's worst nightmare" after playing leading roles in the gang that terrorised the vulnerable pensioners for four hours during a night-time raid.

--------

During their ordeal, the couple, aged in their 70s, were bound with tape, beaten, threatened and locked in a utility room.

The burglars hit the 77-year-old man with a chair and forced his 75-year-old wife to walk barefoot on glass, having discarded her slippers.

One of the burglars threatened to cut off the wife's fingers and ear with a pair of shears if gold, cash and Rolex watches were not produced.

She also needed extensive dental treatment because of the beating to her face. Her husband was stuck with pins "many times" to extort more valuables, the court heard.

During the attack, one of the armed intruders boasted: "This is what we do for a living."

They made off with Chinese ornaments in 24 carat gold, jewellery, silver commemorative coins featuring Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher, gold bars, a custom-made Seiko watch as well as thousands of pounds and Hong Kong dollars in cash.



Waterboarded by a gang of robbers in her £7m home: Masked intruders torture grandmother, 73, for three hours to make her open a safe | Daily Mail Online





That led to a terrifying three-hour ordeal in which the attackers used waterboarding – a form of torture in which the victim is made to feel they are about to be drowned.

The men took underwear from Mrs Jansen’s bedroom and forced it into her mouth before dragging her into the en-suite bathroom. They pulled her head back over the bath and covered her face with a towel they kept flooded with water from the shower head.

‘They did this to me three times but I just couldn’t open the safe,’ she said. ‘I kept telling them it was empty but they didn’t believe me.’

Mrs Jansen, who lives on a private estate in Weybridge, Surrey, told the Mail: ‘I was absolutely terrified, I thought they were going to kill me.

‘They asked me if I had any grandchildren, I told them I had ten and they said “We are going to kill you, do you think your grandchildren will miss you?”

‘I was consumed by fear. It was sheer hell and all I can remember is praying.’

Her six-bedroomed house had been broken into several weeks before the attack last Friday and Surrey Police believe the raiders had located the two safes at that point.



Read more: Waterboarded by a gang of robbers in her £7m home: Masked intruders torture grandmother, 73, for three hours to make her open a safe | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[2aguy]

This is an actual NRA source, from their Armed Citizen stories......this citizen is a little more famous than some others...

Childress Says,

Sports championships and charity leadership have made Childress an admired national figure. But they also put a target on his back.

Childress’ home is in a small township in Davidson County, N.C. On the evening of Dec. 17, the couple was at home, relaxing in the trophy room. Childress had recently begun carrying his Smith & Wesson M&P 40 Shield, even while at home.

A week earlier, Judy had asked, “Why are you carrying your pistol everywhere in the house?”

He explained: “Honey, this time of year you don’t know what people are going to do or try to do. This is a time of year that people do crazy things.”

The night of the break-in at his home, Childress placed the S&W on a table in his dressing room, and went to bed at about 9 p.m. Judy came to bed less than an hour later after turning on the home alarm.

Neither of them knew that three men were already on their property. They had climbed the fence and broken a security camera at the gate. They were wearing black, and they had covered most of their faces with masks. Hiding on the property, they waited until their victims were asleep.

Then, they walked around the perimeter of the house “as if they owned it,” peering through windows and doors for 10 to 15 minutes.

The criminals had planned extensively. “They knew everything about us,” Childress said. They had GPS coordinates and “knew everything about the property.” They even knew enough about Childress’ security dog to convince him to stop barking. Their next step was to hack into the alarm system, with the intent to disable it.

The three men were armed with long guns, including a shotgun and a .308 rifle. In fact, just two days earlier they had stolen guns during a residential burglary in Winston-Salem.

Their intentions, they later admitted, were to break into the house, hold Richard and Judy hostage, and rob them.

“You know, after that, they don’t leave witnesses,” Childress said in a recent interview with America’s 1st Freedom. “So they came to do some bad, bad things to my wife and me.”

The invaders shattered a basement window, which didn’t have an alarm sensor. Next, they began breaking the basement door. At the time, Childress was still in a deep sleep.

3 people's lives saved while on average 30 people died that same day at the hands of guns.

Forgive me for thinking that it's better in the UK where the UK would have a lot less people killed that same day, per capita.

and how many of those crimes were committed by repeat offenders? I'm guessing its probably a sizable percentage. If you want to get to the root of things, what is damaging society it would be that prisons are making people worse than when they go in, and people convicted of gun crimes in many cases are getting out way too soon. Those are the ones who need the tougher sentences.
Prison reform would probably be the most effective solution but it seems to be on everyones back burner. People getting out in just a few years for shooting someone in the commission of a robbery or anything other than self defense is appaling. Prisoners in prison should get hard labor all day, no sitting around on their ass forming gangs.
If they dont want forced labor than they would sign up to learn a skill. This would be much cheaper than paying for their effects on society once they get out again

But here's the problem. The people who support the guns, generally the right, are also the ones who don't deal with the causes of crime.

You talk about tougher sentencing. Er... the US is in the top two in the world for locking people up. Louisiana would be number one by a long way were it a nation, and has one of the highest murder rates in the US too.

Locking people up isn't the problem...letting violent, repeat, known, gun offenders out of prison with light prison sentences is the problem........if you lock up a violent gun offender for less than 3 years.......which is the problem...they go back out and end up shooting people...

Why is it you guys fight keeping violent gun offenders in prison?

Police chiefs plot new strategies against gun violence and mass shootings


Even as it is beset by gun violence, Chicago likes to claim it has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. “I laugh because that’s not true,” Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie T. Johnson said Thursday.

“For the first six months [after the law making gun possession a felony passed], we could not find a gun out on the street. But it actually takes three times for them to be treated like a felon” by Chicago’s courts, where judges and prosecutors were reducing gun charges to misdemeanors, and the word quickly spread. Soon, it was back to violent business as usual.

John Boch: Lock Them Up! - The Truth About Guns

When you lock up violent criminals, you prevent them from victimizing other innocents. Crime in America dipped almost 50%after America abandoned “soft on crime” attitudes of the 1970s. Of course, many soft-on-crime politicians like Reitz have once more taken a love to “diversion” programs. And that’s how we get Robbie Patton (above), a local crime celebrity of sorts.

In 2015, he had an altercation at a Champaign Steak ‘n Shake restaurant commonly frequented by my friends and me. While none of us were enjoying a milkshake or steakburger at 5:30pm, Robbie was.

Robbie found himself in an altercation inside the restaurant. He felt one of his friends had been “disrespected”, so little Robbie went outside. He waited for the other group to emerge, pulled out of gun and tried to kill those other people.

He missed, and fled the scene with an Illinois State Trooper in hot pursuit. After a short, high-speed chase in a stolen car, Robbie crashed and escaped on foot.

Cops caught up with him. Local prosecutor Julia Reitz then went soft on little Robbie. She let him go to “boot camp”, even though that sentencing option is not supposed to be available for violent offenders. And squeezing off a bunch of shots at other people, trying to kill them, pretty much fits the bill as a violent crime.

After serving eight months on an eight-year sentence, Robbie returned to the streets of Champaign-Urbana. In less than two days, cops arrested him again for drugs and who knows what else. Not even three weeks after that, he’s illegally got agun. When someone “disrespects” another one of Robbie’s friends, guess what he does? He pulls out the gun and fires shots at those he believes responsible.




He misses his intended targets, but in the busy University of Illinois campustown district, his errant, not-so-late-night rounds found four innocent people within a block or two. George Korchev, the recent nursing school graduate due to start his career as a registered nurse at a hospital in Libertyville, IL, the following Monday morning, was struck and killed a blockaway from one of Robbie’s bullets.

----------

Democrats lower sentences in California...for gun criminals


California Democrats hate the gun, not the gunman – Orange County Register

Now that Democrats have supermajorities in the California state Legislature, they’ve rolled into Sacramento with a zest for lowering the state’s prison population and have interpreted St. Augustine’s words of wisdom to mean, “Hate the gun, not the gunman.”

I say this because, once they finally took a break from preaching about the benefits of stricter gun control, the state Senate voted to loosen sentencing guidelines for criminals convicted of gun crimes.

Currently, California law requires anyone who uses a gun while committing a felony to have their sentence increased by 10 years or more in prison — on top of the normal criminal penalty. If enacted, Senate Bill 620 would eliminate that mandate.

The bill, which passed on a 22-14 party-line vote, with support only from Democrats, now heads to the state Assembly for consideration.

Republicans and the National Rifle Association have vowed to campaign against it.

Why have Democrats suddenly developed a soft spot for criminals convicted of gun crimes? The bill’s author, state Sen. Steve Bradford, D-Gardena, says that he was motivated to write the bill after a 17-year-old riding in a car involved in a drive-by shooting was sentenced to 25 years in prison, even though he claims that he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger.

and for all those anti-gunners who want to know where criminals get guns....well...this law lowers the prison time for those who give guns to criminals.....

Why is that?

Prop. 57, for example, very deceptively and fundamentally changed the definition of what constitutes a “non-violent” offense.


supplying a firearm to a gang member,

l
felon obtaining a firearm,

discharging a firearm on school grounds









Chicago's grim murder trend blamed on light sentencing, misguided reforms

Lamar Harris had seven felony convictions and 43 arrests when he shot three Chicago police officers. The same week, Samuel Harviley, who had just been paroled after serving less than half of his sentence for armed carjacking, shot yet another of the Windy City’s finest.

Police officials, researchers and many elected leaders all agree that the pair were prime examples of the violent pool of criminals driving the city’s historically high crime rate. Ex-cons well-known to police and with a proven propensity for violence are being let out early from prison or let off lightly by judges, only to wreak havoc on the city, they say.

-----

“We have five districts that are driving the crime in the city,” Johnson said in a recent radio interview. “And within those districts, there is a small subset of individuals who are responsible for those crimes. They have multiple arrests for gun offenses and until we start holding these people accountable [the problem will persist].”


----
Illinois is one of several states implementing recommendations from prison reform commissions to reduce or even eliminate mandatory minimum sentences. Those groups seek to reduce prison populations by as much as 25 percent.

The movement to slash sentences and free inmates is given momentum by controversial, police-involved shootings that galvanize communities, as well as protests by Black Lives Matter and civil rights groups. But shortening sentences of violent offenders puts both police and law-abiding residents of the inner city at risk, say law enforcement officials.