Hawking Says Universe Created Itself

[Skull Pilot]

Very likely..Based on the laws of chemistry and physics it most certainly did.

If you don't believe this then i ask who or what created god? It is so much more simple to explain things with laws of science compared to figuring out how a super being developed out of nothing.

Laws of science = billions or even tens of billions of years for such processes to slowly come together.

God popped out of nothing! =

You idiot. God wasn't created. He has always existed. And the universe creating itself violates the LAW of cause and effect.

What if the universe always existed and we only have a theory, the big bang, to try to explain only one event that happened ?

As far as the big bang theory goes it's simply the best explanation for what we can observe in the universe but then consider the fact that we cannot observe and do not understand Dark Energy and Dark Matter which actually comprise 95% of the matter and energy in the entire universe and tell me what confidence you have in a theory of the creation of the universe than only accounts for combined 5% of matter and energy.

 

[Wry Catcher]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

Since RWNJ fails to prove a Creator exists, we can assume the postulate put forth by Mr. Hawking has merit. This thread and the other one are examples of a polemic, one can believe him or not, but nothing has nor can be answered by responding to his mental masturbation.

 

[Windparadox]

Outward to where? There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

`
Actually, you are right but the explanation is a head banger. I'm no physicist. For starters,many people assume the "big bang" singularity happened from a central point and expanded outward. That's not correct. It happened every time and everyplace, simultaneously. The universe has no center, no shape, no edge. It's not really physically going anywhere.

So, why do we say it's "expanding"? If so, what is it expanding into? I have a couple of good sites I'll list at the bottom of this that have better explanations but in essence, they physically are not aren't expanding anywhere. What is expanding is the time/space between bodies. A good analogy is take a deflated balloon and put two dots on it. Then start to blow up the balloon. Note that the two dots are farther apart. Keep blowing up the balloon and the dots become even further apart. The dots haven't moved but the space between them (skin of the balloon) has expanded. Time/space has expanded, not the physical entities. That is what is meant by "expansion."

What is the universe expanding into.
`

 

[sealybobo]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

There is only one Bible. And it is not to be interpreted but understood by using Biblical, historical and cultural context.

Which Bible is that?

Yea, which version? King James or one of the many other versions?

I can tell you this. The Greeks practically invented Christianity. We may have actually invented it. Paul went to Greece and that's where he wrote practically half the bible.

So I don't even want to know what King James did to it. I can only imagine.

 

[Eloy]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

I had this experience myself and upon waking up I decided to quit the medication prescribed for me.

 

[sealybobo]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

Yea but some Christians who believe in science might just believe that god created the big bang, then planted the life seed and let evolution take place. Evolution 1 million years ago and the Jesus story are two different things.

Most Christians can just write this off as the Jews in the old testament didn't know what they were talking about. Evolution and the big bang don't debunk the Jesus story right?

How about Christians who believe non christians go to heaven even after reading this:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Eloy]

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

Yes, many people say the same. Many others have returned to share experiences. Some of them have shocked medical staff and families by telling them things they said or did or described things in the hospital that they couldn't have possibly known about. When my grandmother was in Hospice I had an opportunity to speak to many Hospice nurses. Every one of them had a supernatural experience to share with me and every one of them definitely believed in life after death.

There is no life after death according to Jesus and his views were the same as the Jews....or Hebrews...There is no life until after resurrection and judgement will decide if you exist anymore..

This would contradict that belief. It would also contradict the countless statements of people who have experienced a taste of the afterlife before returning to this realm.

New International Version
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

But Jesus didn't go to paradise the day he died...

How do you know? Perhaps he went to Heaven and then resurrected his body on Sunday. It would certainly be consistent with the countless numbers of people who have shared their NDE's.

The

 

[Windparadox]

Yea but some Christians who believe in science might just believe that god created the big bang, then planted the life seed and let evolution take place. Evolution 1 million years ago and the Jesus story are two different things. Most Christians can just write this off as the Jews in the old testament didn't know what they were talking about. Evolution and the big bang don't debunk the Jesus story right? How about Christians who believe non christians go to heaven even after reading this:Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

`
I'm not an atheist, I do believe in some kind of supreme divinity, but definitely not the kind of beliefs I see the more radical religious elements push. I tend to be more spiritual. I was more interested in the science here, which I see was just a front to get into useless religious arguments. I'll pass.

 

[Eloy]

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

Yes, many people say the same. Many others have returned to share experiences. Some of them have shocked medical staff and families by telling them things they said or did or described things in the hospital that they couldn't have possibly known about. When my grandmother was in Hospice I had an opportunity to speak to many Hospice nurses. Every one of them had a supernatural experience to share with me and every one of them definitely believed in life after death.

There is no life after death according to Jesus and his views were the same as the Jews....or Hebrews...There is no life until after resurrection and judgement will decide if you exist anymore..

This would contradict that belief. It would also contradict the countless statements of people who have experienced a taste of the afterlife before returning to this realm.

New International Version
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

But Jesus didn't go to paradise the day he died...

How do you know? Perhaps he went to Heaven and then resurrected his body on Sunday. It would certainly be consistent with the countless numbers of people who have shared their NDE's.

Jesus did not resurrect himself; he was raised to life again by god:
"Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power." (1 Corinthians 6:14)
"... which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead ..." (Ephesians 1:20)
"... knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also ..." (2 Corinthians 4:14)
etc.

 

[MarkDuffy]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

Intelligent Designers used to love Hawking but not any longer!

LOL

I guess that means no Christmas card from Discovery Institute this year

 

[MarkDuffy]

The universe was never created.

`
That may be true in a "closed universe" where the expansion driven by the Big Bang stops and causes its own eventual contraction, only to reform and expand again in another Big Bang. Hawking's theory is based on that. The existence of a god has no effect on that.

There is no compelling evidence that the "big bang" hypothesis is correct in the first place.

The universe is spreading outward and all evidence is that it's ALWAYS been spreading outward.

Outward to where?
There is absolutely no evidence that the universe is spreading outward.

17 verses in the Bible say God expanded the universe from its original size. What affect did that have on time, and on red and blue shift?

 

[sealybobo]

Yea but some Christians who believe in science might just believe that god created the big bang, then planted the life seed and let evolution take place. Evolution 1 million years ago and the Jesus story are two different things. Most Christians can just write this off as the Jews in the old testament didn't know what they were talking about. Evolution and the big bang don't debunk the Jesus story right? How about Christians who believe non christians go to heaven even after reading this:Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

`
I'm not an atheist, I do believe in some kind of supreme divinity, but definitely not the kind of beliefs I see the more radical religious elements push. I tend to be more spiritual. I was more interested in the science here, which I see was just a front to get into useless religious arguments. I'll pass.

Good since I wasn't talking to you. LOL. I was commenting on Eloy's comment.

And I agree with you. I'm way more interested in the science but good luck with that here. If you mention Hawking or Tyson or Bill Nye the religious nuts go nuts. So I just assumed. LOL.

Anyways, are you new? Welcome. I can be a bit annoying at times.

 

[sealybobo]

Yea but some Christians who believe in science might just believe that god created the big bang, then planted the life seed and let evolution take place. Evolution 1 million years ago and the Jesus story are two different things. Most Christians can just write this off as the Jews in the old testament didn't know what they were talking about. Evolution and the big bang don't debunk the Jesus story right? How about Christians who believe non christians go to heaven even after reading this:Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

`
I'm not an atheist, I do believe in some kind of supreme divinity, but definitely not the kind of beliefs I see the more radical religious elements push. I tend to be more spiritual. I was more interested in the science here, which I see was just a front to get into useless religious arguments. I'll pass.

I heard it's possible that Venus once harbored life before earth did. Back when the sun was younger and hotter or colder, I forgot which, but the point is it's all natural. And one day this eath won't be habitable for humans but tardigrades will still live here.

As far as the big bang. Some things may be unknowable. Like what was happening before the big bang and are their other universes beyond ours? Like a lava lamp. Our universe is just one bubble.

 

[rightwinger]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

 

[rightwinger]

`
The article, from a "creationist" web site, is commenting on Hawking's book, The Grand Design, in which Hawking postulates; "that invoking God is not necessary to explain the origins of the universe, and that the Big Bang is a consequence of the laws of physics alone. In response to criticism, Hawking has said; "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary."

Those who take the bible literally, will object to that of course. They have no use for such things as science anyways. As creationists are all "faith based", argumentation in regards to science is totally lost on them. Hawking does not state an absolute in his book but offers instead, a mathematical and scientifically sound explanation of a "possible" alternative to the creationist concept.

The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a singularity, the beginning of space and time. So the question becomes, what CAUSED the universe to come into existence? It created itself? That's "scientific" thinking? Not a chance. And what about life? Did life creat itself too? Hawking and a plethora of non-believers follow the ABG theory (anything but God) as they are bound and determined that there is no such thing as a creator. The philosophical implications of a creator is too great for many non-believers.

The basic matter of the universe was always there

 

[RWNJ]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

 

[RWNJ]

`
The article, from a "creationist" web site, is commenting on Hawking's book, The Grand Design, in which Hawking postulates; "that invoking God is not necessary to explain the origins of the universe, and that the Big Bang is a consequence of the laws of physics alone. In response to criticism, Hawking has said; "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary."

Those who take the bible literally, will object to that of course. They have no use for such things as science anyways. As creationists are all "faith based", argumentation in regards to science is totally lost on them. Hawking does not state an absolute in his book but offers instead, a mathematical and scientifically sound explanation of a "possible" alternative to the creationist concept.

The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a singularity, the beginning of space and time. So the question becomes, what CAUSED the universe to come into existence? It created itself? That's "scientific" thinking? Not a chance. And what about life? Did life creat itself too? Hawking and a plethora of non-believers follow the ABG theory (anything but God) as they are bound and determined that there is no such thing as a creator. The philosophical implications of a creator is too great for many non-believers.

The basic matter of the universe was always there

Prove it.

 

[rightwinger]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

It is a scientific impossibility for matter to self create itself
Energy is created.....matter is not

 

[RWNJ]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

It is a scientific impossibility for matter to self create itself
Energy is created.....matter is not

So, you agree with me. Matter was created. It's a start. Energy was also created. Nothing physical can be eternal. It cannot create itself either. That only leaves one explanation. God did it.

 

[sealybobo]

He may be brilliant, but he's dead wrong.

Hawking Says Universe Created Itself | The Institute for Creation Research

The universe always was

Matter cannot be created or destroyed

How many times do I have to say this? The universe cannot be eternal. It's a scientific impossibility. If it was eternal, there would be no energy left. It would have been used up an eternity ago. Damn! You're stupid.

No you are the stupid one. No the universe as we know it is not eternal. We see shooting stars all the time. The universe is dying. It's middle age. But what happens after the last star burns out? What happened before the big bang?

What did god do 29 trillion years ago? Or was god born too 13.5 billion years ago?