Hawking Says Universe Created Itself

[Kosh]

You claim you know science.

I don't know where the maths for the BB breaks down, as you claim it does. Educate me.

And I did, you choose to ignore it!

It may be better to put it another way: while it is true that when building a theory on another theory, the conclusion of the first theory must be taken as an axiom in the second, but that shouldn't mislead one to be believe that that first theory isn't still a testable scientific theory with evidence of its own to back it up. In addition, the success of the new theory provides evidence to back up the theories its axioms are built from.

This explains where and why the math breaks down..

If you choose to ignore this, then that is on you and proves the far left does not care about science, just running debunked religious narratives.

 

[cnm]

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan.

I thought everything was good that came from god.

 

[Kosh]

(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html#jCp

 

[Kosh]

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan.

I thought everything was good that came from god.

See how the far left is here to run their debunked narratives?

Proof the far left religion is the most dangerous religion on the planet!

 

[RWNJ]

The universe was never created.

`
That may be true in a "closed universe" where the expansion driven by the Big Bang stops and causes its own eventual contraction, only to reform and expand again in another Big Bang. Hawking's theory is based on that. The existence of a god has no effect on that.

Someone or some thing would have to create it in the first place for it to happen, right?

Yes. But some scientists think it's OK to ignore the law of cause and effect.

 

[cnm]

Something most people don't know about the big bang is that the mathematical model breaks down before it gets to the beginning.

As I understand it, the BB model only deals with what happens after. What happens before is what the discussion is about.

 

[cnm]

But some scientists think it's OK to ignore the law of cause and effect.

What on earth are you talking about? Action and reaction?

 

[RWNJ]

The universe was never created.

`
That may be true in a "closed universe" where the expansion driven by the Big Bang stops and causes its own eventual contraction, only to reform and expand again in another Big Bang. Hawking's theory is based on that. The existence of a god has no effect on that.

There is no compelling evidence that the "big bang" hypothesis is correct in the first place.

The universe is spreading outward and all evidence is that it's ALWAYS been spreading outward. The ABG adherents are trying to disavow the Big Bang because of its implications with regard to a creator.

Wrong. God probably caused the big bang. In fact, the Bible states that God streached out the heavens. See the connection?

 

[K9Buck]

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".

I have repeatedly made very sound, logical arguments and every single atheist here has ignored them or deflected. Atheists demand proof and when given strong evidence, they run and hide. Then they accuse the presenter of believing in sky fairies, etc.

I've spoken with many Christians who say the basis of their belief is "faith". It's a word we hear all the time. They tell me they realize God hasn't made himself obvious, but that they have "faith" that He's there. Faith is the bridge between Point A and Point B.

Okay, that's fine. But that's not empirical evidence.

All He has to do is show up and say howdy, and we'll have proof. Until then, this is based on "faith".
.

I met a woman years ago who told me about an NDE that she experienced. Long story short, she died and met Jesus. I said "That experience must have really strengthened your faith". She responded, quite adamantly "It's not faith, it's fact!".

For most of the rest of us, however, it is faith. But those who look for God will find him, at least those who want to find him. The militant, narrow-minded atheists here do NOT want to find God.

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator. I encourage believers to do the same because, eventually, our children will encounter the Godless, soulless atheists that will do everything they can to persuade them that there is no God and, frankly, no purpose to life.

If you ever check out YouTube there are many credible people who share their NDE experiences. The ABG adherents will tell you they're dreaming, lying, experiencing the effects of a dying brain, anything to dismiss the idea that there is a creator and that there is an afterlife.

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan. At most atheists are also liberals, you'll also see these people lie through their teeth and avoid simple questions that reveal their ideology to be unreasonable. I will say that Muslims have also been deceived by Satan. There's a reason much of the world has hated Israel from the beginning of time - Satan. No other segment of humanity has been as oppressed and persecuted throughout Earth's history as have the Jews, God's chosen people in the Old Testament. If there is no creator, why then have the Jews been so mercilessly persecuted? Coincidence? I think not. There's a reason that many liberals and Muslims despise Israel, it's because they've both been deceived by Satan.

Now, if you don't believe in God and Satan then you're left to believe that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself.

Either position, right now, requires Faith. For me, personally, I admit to not knowing. I doubt the existence of God - or at least, especially the God that I hear about - but empirical evidence would draw me in one direction or the other. Right now, I have neither, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

NDE's could easily be generated by our brains. We don't know.

Regarding the "pearls before swine" comment you made earlier, I can understand that. As I also understand it, however, you're supposed to humbly keep trying, but I'm no expert there. I do know that trying to change anyone's mind in this online format is almost certainly a waste of time, either on religion or politics.
.

The hardcore atheist is unlikely to change barring they themselves having some sort of NDE, such as the one the self-described, militant atheist and university professor Howard Storm had in 1985(?). He quit his cushy university professorship (head of his department), went to seminary school and became a church pastor. You can listen to his story here.

There's also the story of neurosurgeon Even Alexander, a neurosurgeon who was also an atheist who contracted bacterial meningitis, went into a coma, had an NDE and, against big odds, survived and made a complete recovery. You can hear his story here:


There's countless more. Some of them are probably lying to get attention, etc., but I absolutely believe many of them are telling the truth, especially the ones that tell how they went to Hell. LOL!

 

[Moonglow]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

Yes, many people say the same. Many others have returned to share experiences. Some of them have shocked medical staff and families by telling them things they said or did or described things in the hospital that they couldn't have possibly known about. When my grandmother was in Hospice I had an opportunity to speak to many Hospice nurses. Every one of them had a supernatural experience to share with me and every one of them definitely believed in life after death.

There is no life after death according to Jesus and his views were the same as the Jews....or Hebrews...There is no life until after resurrection and judgement will decide if you exist anymore..

 

[K9Buck]

The universe was never created.

`
That may be true in a "closed universe" where the expansion driven by the Big Bang stops and causes its own eventual contraction, only to reform and expand again in another Big Bang. Hawking's theory is based on that. The existence of a god has no effect on that.

There is no compelling evidence that the "big bang" hypothesis is correct in the first place.

The universe is spreading outward and all evidence is that it's ALWAYS been spreading outward. The ABG adherents are trying to disavow the Big Bang because of its implications with regard to a creator.

Wrong. God probably caused the big bang. In fact, the Bible states that God streached out the heavens. See the connection?

Yes, God caused the big bang which marked the beginning of space and time. The universe has been expanding ever since.

 

[RWNJ]

Once you have "compelling" it isn't Science.Greg

`
Compelling is subjective. I'm compelled by facts and and proof. While, empirical proof is best, the combination of logic and theory can also be compelling. Ultimately, it depends on the individual.

Is the law of cause and effect not compelling? The universe exists. Therefore it was caused to happen. I simply believe that the only rational cause is God.

 

[cnm]

See how the far left is here to run their debunked narratives?

Proof the far left religion is the most dangerous religion on the planet!

So, what, bad things come from god? That would seem to have to be the case if there is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

My response to Hawking would be "whence comes existence?" Why does anything "exist" at all?

For every Yin there is a Yang. What is the comparable state of non-existence, and what catalyst altered that state? Would not such a catalyst by necessity exist independent of either state?

 

[RWNJ]

(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html#jCp

Entropy. Don't forget about entropy. If the universe had always existed all the energy would be gone.

 

[K9Buck]

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

Yes, many people say the same. Many others have returned to share experiences. Some of them have shocked medical staff and families by telling them things they said or did or described things in the hospital that they couldn't have possibly known about. When my grandmother was in Hospice I had an opportunity to speak to many Hospice nurses. Every one of them had a supernatural experience to share with me and every one of them definitely believed in life after death.

There is no life after death according to Jesus and his views were the same as the Jews....or Hebrews...There is no life until after resurrection and judgement will decide if you exist anymore..

This would contradict that belief. It would also contradict the countless statements of people who have experienced a taste of the afterlife before returning to this realm.

New International Version
Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[cnm]

I simply believe that the only rational cause is God.

Absolutely. Sky fairies are common sense.

 

[Kosh]

See how the far left is here to run their debunked narratives?

Proof the far left religion is the most dangerous religion on the planet!

So, what, bad things come from god? That would seem to have to be the case if there is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator.

Once again the far left religious narrative runs as it proves that they do not believe in science, just debunked far left religious narratives.

Do you believe that humans are the superior conscience in the universe?

 

[K9Buck]

My response to Hawking would be "whence comes existence?" Why does anything "exist" at all?

For every Yin there is a Yang. What is the comparable state of non-existence, and what catalyst altered that state?

Well said. There's too much logical thought here for an atheist to touch. They'll run from it like roaches to a light.

 

[cnm]

My response to Hawking would be "whence comes existence?" Why does anything "exist" at all?

I bet his answer would be 'Fucked if I know'.