Hawking Says Universe Created Itself

[K9Buck]

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".

I have repeatedly made very sound, logical arguments and every single atheist here has ignored them or deflected. Atheists demand proof and when given strong evidence, they run and hide. Then they accuse the presenter of believing in sky fairies, etc.

I've spoken with many Christians who say the basis of their belief is "faith". It's a word we hear all the time. They tell me they realize God hasn't made himself obvious, but that they have "faith" that He's there. Faith is the bridge between Point A and Point B.

Okay, that's fine. But that's not empirical evidence.

All He has to do is show up and say howdy, and we'll have proof. Until then, this is based on "faith".
.

I met a woman years ago who told me about an NDE that she experienced. Long story short, she died and met Jesus. I said "That experience must have really strengthened your faith". She responded, quite adamantly "It's not faith, it's fact!".

For most of the rest of us, however, it is faith. But those who look for God will find him, at least those who want to find him. The militant, narrow-minded atheists here do NOT want to find God.

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator. I encourage believers to do the same because, eventually, our children will encounter the Godless, soulless atheists that will do everything they can to persuade them that there is no God and, frankly, no purpose to life.

If you ever check out YouTube there are many credible people who share their NDE experiences. The ABG adherents will tell you they're dreaming, lying, experiencing the effects of a dying brain, anything to dismiss the idea that there is a creator and that there is an afterlife.

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan. At most atheists are also liberals, you'll also see these people lie through their teeth and avoid simple questions that reveal their ideology to be unreasonable. I will say that Muslims have also been deceived by Satan. There's a reason much of the world has hated Israel from the beginning of time - Satan. No other segment of humanity has been as oppressed and persecuted throughout Earth's history as have the Jews, God's chosen people in the Old Testament. If there is no creator, why then have the Jews been so mercilessly persecuted? Coincidence? I think not. There's a reason that many liberals and Muslims despise Israel, it's because they've both been deceived by Satan.

Now, if you don't believe in God and Satan then you're left to believe that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself.

 

[RWNJ]

Whether he's right, it's not just opinio"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.In the forthcoming book, published on 9 September, Hawking says that M-theory, a form of string theory, will achieve this goal: "M-theory is the unified theory Einstein was hoping to find," he theorises.https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/02

`
Attempting to explain science to certain religious people, is an exercise in futility.

That's funny. Many of the greatest scientists are, or were, Christians. In fact, it was Christians who developed the scientific method.

 

[Moonglow]

We don't know yet. It's a fun and fascinating mystery. Maybe we'll get there one day.

Anyone who claims they know for sure isn't being honest. Or they're brainwashed.

The only ones that know for sure are the arrogant, condescending, atheists that accuse believers of having an imaginary sky fairy to fill in the gaps. Meanwhile, they posit theories that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself. LOL.

Well, there's plenty of arrogance and condescension coming from both sides of this.

The side opposite yours certainly does enjoy the mockery and personal insults, I'll give you that.

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".
.

I don't base my faith in a creator in religious dogma nor in the bible but, with all that's been said, I am reminded of something Jesus said in the bible. Don't cast your pearls to the swine. Discussing the concept of a creator with hardcore, militant atheists like we have here is the equivalent of casting pearls to the swine. I think my participation in this thread is about over.

Jesus said that to his disciples to only preach before receptive people...Are you preaching before receptive people?

 

[Kosh]

And you as a far left drone have yet to offer any alternatives other than to base all your posts on the debunked far left religious dogma. And thus proving you are here to push the far left religious agenda and nothing else!

Anyone translate this?

Yes the far left can not understand anything beyond their debunked religious dogma!

 

[Moonglow]

Whether he's right, it's not just opinio"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.In the forthcoming book, published on 9 September, Hawking says that M-theory, a form of string theory, will achieve this goal: "M-theory is the unified theory Einstein was hoping to find," he theorises.https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/sep/02

`
Attempting to explain science to certain religious people, is an exercise in futility.

That's funny. Many of the greatest scientists are, or were, Christians. In fact, it was Christians who developed the scientific method.

And many are not...And some are Hindus and some are Jews, some are Muslims,etc, etc....So we have a paradox of God's all being a creator..

 

[Kosh]

And I did say what is common knowledge on the subject.

I don't know to what you refer. Where does the maths of the BB break down? Educate me.

Far left drones can not be educated as they will never let go of their debunked religious dogma.

It may be better to put it another way: while it is true that when building a theory on another theory, the conclusion of the first theory must be taken as an axiom in the second, but that shouldn't mislead one to be believe that that first theory isn't still a testable scientific theory with evidence of its own to back it up. In addition, the success of the new theory provides evidence to back up the theories its axioms are built from.

This was posted once before, why is it hard for you to understand it?

You claim you know science.

 

[K9Buck]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

 

[Moonglow]

And you as a far left drone have yet to offer any alternatives other than to base all your posts on the debunked far left religious dogma. And thus proving you are here to push the far left religious agenda and nothing else!

Anyone translate this?

 

[Windparadox]

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

`
When it comes down to people stating that their belief, is the only one true belief, discussion become useless.

 

[Taz]

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".

I have repeatedly made very sound, logical arguments and every single atheist here has ignored them or deflected. Atheists demand proof and when given strong evidence, they run and hide. Then they accuse the presenter of believing in sky fairies, etc.

I've spoken with many Christians who say the basis of their belief is "faith". It's a word we hear all the time. They tell me they realize God hasn't made himself obvious, but that they have "faith" that He's there. Faith is the bridge between Point A and Point B.

Okay, that's fine. But that's not empirical evidence.

All He has to do is show up and say howdy, and we'll have proof. Until then, this is based on "faith".
.

I met a woman years ago who told me about an NDE that she experienced. Long story short, she died and met Jesus. I said "That experience must have really strengthened your faith". She responded, quite adamantly "It's not faith, it's fact!".

For most of the rest of us, however, it is faith. But those who look for God will find him, at least those who want to find him. The militant, narrow-minded atheists here do NOT want to find God.

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator. I encourage believers to do the same because, eventually, our children will encounter the Godless, soulless atheists that will do everything they can to persuade them that there is no God and, frankly, no purpose to life.

If you ever check out YouTube there are many credible people who share their NDE experiences. The ABG adherents will tell you they're dreaming, lying, experiencing the effects of a dying brain, anything to dismiss the idea that there is a creator and that there is an afterlife.

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan. At most atheists are also liberals, you'll also see these people lie through their teeth and avoid simple questions that reveal their ideology to be unreasonable. I will say that Muslims have also been deceived by Satan. There's a reason much of the world has hated Israel from the beginning of time - Satan. No other segment of humanity has been as oppressed and persecuted throughout Earth's history as have the Jews, God's chosen people in the Old Testament. If there is no creator, why then have the Jews been so mercilessly persecuted? Coincidence? I think not. There's a reason that many liberals and Muslims despise Israel, it's because they've both been deceived by Satan.

Now, if you don't believe in God and Satan then you're left to believe that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself.

I'm agnostic because there's no actual proof either way for or against the possibility of a creator, and if anyone ever comes up with real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind.

 

[K9Buck]

And I did say what is common knowledge on the subject.

I don't know to what you refer. Where does the maths of the BB break down? Educate me.

Far left drones can not be educated as they will never let go of their debunked religious dogma.

It may be better to put it another way: while it is true that when building a theory on another theory, the conclusion of the first theory must be taken as an axiom in the second, but that shouldn't mislead one to be believe that that first theory isn't still a testable scientific theory with evidence of its own to back it up. In addition, the success of the new theory provides evidence to back up the theories its axioms are built from.

This was posted once before, why is it hard for you to understand it?

You claim you know science.

Stop wasting your time, energy and bandwidth on a troll. Don't cast your pearls.

 

[RWNJ]

TThere is no compelling evidence that the "big bang" hypothesis is correct in the first place.

`
I didn't say there was. It's all theoretical. While the Big Bang is an accepted theory in the scientific community, it also allows for other competing science based postulations. It may not be "compelling" to you, but it certainly is for others.

Something most people don't know about the big bang is that the mathematical model breaks down before it gets to the beginning. Why is that? Personally, I believe that God probably used the big bang to create the universe, while at the same time creating the universal pohysical constants, among other things. Perhaps there was no math at the point where it breaks down.

 

[K9Buck]

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".

I have repeatedly made very sound, logical arguments and every single atheist here has ignored them or deflected. Atheists demand proof and when given strong evidence, they run and hide. Then they accuse the presenter of believing in sky fairies, etc.

I've spoken with many Christians who say the basis of their belief is "faith". It's a word we hear all the time. They tell me they realize God hasn't made himself obvious, but that they have "faith" that He's there. Faith is the bridge between Point A and Point B.

Okay, that's fine. But that's not empirical evidence.

All He has to do is show up and say howdy, and we'll have proof. Until then, this is based on "faith".
.

I met a woman years ago who told me about an NDE that she experienced. Long story short, she died and met Jesus. I said "That experience must have really strengthened your faith". She responded, quite adamantly "It's not faith, it's fact!".

For most of the rest of us, however, it is faith. But those who look for God will find him, at least those who want to find him. The militant, narrow-minded atheists here do NOT want to find God.

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator. I encourage believers to do the same because, eventually, our children will encounter the Godless, soulless atheists that will do everything they can to persuade them that there is no God and, frankly, no purpose to life.

If you ever check out YouTube there are many credible people who share their NDE experiences. The ABG adherents will tell you they're dreaming, lying, experiencing the effects of a dying brain, anything to dismiss the idea that there is a creator and that there is an afterlife.

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan. At most atheists are also liberals, you'll also see these people lie through their teeth and avoid simple questions that reveal their ideology to be unreasonable. I will say that Muslims have also been deceived by Satan. There's a reason much of the world has hated Israel from the beginning of time - Satan. No other segment of humanity has been as oppressed and persecuted throughout Earth's history as have the Jews, God's chosen people in the Old Testament. If there is no creator, why then have the Jews been so mercilessly persecuted? Coincidence? I think not. There's a reason that many liberals and Muslims despise Israel, it's because they've both been deceived by Satan.

Now, if you don't believe in God and Satan then you're left to believe that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself.

I'm agnostic because there's no actual proof either way for or against the possibility of a creator, and if anyone ever comes up with real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind.

That's fair. Keep looking and keep an open mind!

 

[Moonglow]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

 

[Kosh]

And I did say what is common knowledge on the subject.

I don't know to what you refer. Where does the maths of the BB break down? Educate me.

Far left drones can not be educated as they will never let go of their debunked religious dogma.

It may be better to put it another way: while it is true that when building a theory on another theory, the conclusion of the first theory must be taken as an axiom in the second, but that shouldn't mislead one to be believe that that first theory isn't still a testable scientific theory with evidence of its own to back it up. In addition, the success of the new theory provides evidence to back up the theories its axioms are built from.

This was posted once before, why is it hard for you to understand it?

You claim you know science.

Stop wasting your time, energy and bandwidth on a troll. Don't cast your pearls.

Sometimes I have the time for a good feeding!

 

[cnm]

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator.

I bet those are hilarious. You should tell us some for our entertainment. Let me guess one...'It's obvious common sense.'

 

[RWNJ]

`
The article, from a "creationist" web site, is commenting on Hawking's book, The Grand Design, in which Hawking postulates; "that invoking God is not necessary to explain the origins of the universe, and that the Big Bang is a consequence of the laws of physics alone. In response to criticism, Hawking has said; "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary."

Those who take the bible literally, will object to that of course. They have no use for such things as science anyways. As creationists are all "faith based", argumentation in regards to science is totally lost on them. Hawking does not state an absolute in his book but offers instead, a mathematical and scientifically sound explanation of a "possible" alternative to the creationist concept.

The scientific evidence shows that the universe had a singularity, the beginning of space and time. So the question becomes, what CAUSED the universe to come into existence? It created itself? That's "scientific" thinking? Not a chance. And what about life? Did life creat itself too? Hawking and a plethora of non-believers follow the ABG theory (anything but God) as they are bound and determined that there is no such thing as a creator. The philosophical implications of a creator is too great for many non-believers.

Something you might find interesting. It is a scientific fact that space and time are a part of the fabric of the universe. Which begs the question. If there was no uiverse, and thus no space or time, WHEN and WHERE did the big bang happen?

 

[Mac1958]

Most atheists are saying "I see no empirical evidence. Provide it and I'll change my mind".

I have repeatedly made very sound, logical arguments and every single atheist here has ignored them or deflected. Atheists demand proof and when given strong evidence, they run and hide. Then they accuse the presenter of believing in sky fairies, etc.

I've spoken with many Christians who say the basis of their belief is "faith". It's a word we hear all the time. They tell me they realize God hasn't made himself obvious, but that they have "faith" that He's there. Faith is the bridge between Point A and Point B.

Okay, that's fine. But that's not empirical evidence.

All He has to do is show up and say howdy, and we'll have proof. Until then, this is based on "faith".
.

I met a woman years ago who told me about an NDE that she experienced. Long story short, she died and met Jesus. I said "That experience must have really strengthened your faith". She responded, quite adamantly "It's not faith, it's fact!".

For most of the rest of us, however, it is faith. But those who look for God will find him, at least those who want to find him. The militant, narrow-minded atheists here do NOT want to find God.

I talk to my kids and other family members about God and give them reasons to believe, especially scientific arguments for the belief in a creator. I encourage believers to do the same because, eventually, our children will encounter the Godless, soulless atheists that will do everything they can to persuade them that there is no God and, frankly, no purpose to life.

If you ever check out YouTube there are many credible people who share their NDE experiences. The ABG adherents will tell you they're dreaming, lying, experiencing the effects of a dying brain, anything to dismiss the idea that there is a creator and that there is an afterlife.

Frankly, it's my personal belief that atheists have been deceived by the greatest liar in world history, Satan. At most atheists are also liberals, you'll also see these people lie through their teeth and avoid simple questions that reveal their ideology to be unreasonable. I will say that Muslims have also been deceived by Satan. There's a reason much of the world has hated Israel from the beginning of time - Satan. No other segment of humanity has been as oppressed and persecuted throughout Earth's history as have the Jews, God's chosen people in the Old Testament. If there is no creator, why then have the Jews been so mercilessly persecuted? Coincidence? I think not. There's a reason that many liberals and Muslims despise Israel, it's because they've both been deceived by Satan.

Now, if you don't believe in God and Satan then you're left to believe that the universe came out of nowhere and that life created itself.

Either position, right now, requires Faith. For me, personally, I admit to not knowing. I doubt the existence of God - or at least, especially the God that I hear about - but empirical evidence would draw me in one direction or the other. Right now, I have neither, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

NDE's could easily be generated by our brains. We don't know.

Regarding the "pearls before swine" comment you made earlier, I can understand that. As I also understand it, however, you're supposed to humbly keep trying, but I'm no expert there. I do know that trying to change anyone's mind in this online format is almost certainly a waste of time, either on religion or politics.
.

 

[cnm]

You claim you know science.

I don't know where the maths for the BB breaks down, as you claim it does. Educate me.

 

[K9Buck]

They already know what's going to happen so who cares. It is written. Prophecized. And some even believe the end days are near but it's not pollution it's sin that's doing is in. Damn the science

`
Not all Christians believe in creationist concepts. That's the rub. Consider this, there are hundreds of different Christian sects (or calling themselves "Christian") who have hundreds of different beliefs in God and the bible. Many even have their own bibles. Then there are millions of different interpretations of that bible. Many believe that we are in the "end times" now. I don't even try to keep up with that. I simply let them believe what they want. I've no interest in their beliefs nor changing their minds. If someone does not like mine, fine by me.

It would indeed be a most unorthodox Christian who did not believe that a god created the world.

I encourage you to get on YouTube and do a search for atheist near death experiences. I don't pretend that every person that has posted their NDE on YouTube is being honest. But, if you watch some of them, I believe you can sort of glean who is being honest, especially when they're telling the whole world that they went to Hell and experienced pure terror and that, upon returning, decided to change their life. If you seek God, you will find him.

My Father in law died and then came back and he said he saw nothing, it was like going to sleep and waking up..

Yes, many people say the same. Many others have returned to share experiences. Some of them have shocked medical staff and families by telling them things they said or did or described things in the hospital that they couldn't have possibly known about. When my grandmother was in Hospice I had an opportunity to speak to many Hospice nurses. Every one of them had a supernatural experience to share with me and every one of them definitely believed in life after death.