He simply has to end the war

It's the job of the one making an insinuation to defend their position.

Yes, they were.

Ok? We had no reason to invade Iraq regardless of "who didn't get the job done." The American people were lied to so that the Bush administration could continue it's un-winnable war on terrorism.

Hate to break this to you, a large percentage of the troops in Iraq are simply going to move two countries over. The "war" will continue for the next four years, unabated, only in a different venue. So get used to it.
 
Hate to break this to you, a large percentage of the troops in Iraq are simply going to move two countries over. The "war" will continue for the next four years, unabated, only in a different venue. So get used to it.

I think the democrats are OK with that so technically everyone will be happy. And being happy and feeling good are what counts, ya know. :lol:
 
I think the democrats are OK with that so technically everyone will be happy. And being happy and feeling good are what counts, ya know. :lol:

stuartSmalley.jpg
 
Hate to break this to you, a large percentage of the troops in Iraq are simply going to move two countries over. The "war" will continue for the next four years, unabated, only in a different venue. So get used to it.

I know this, and I will not get used to it.
 
Obama cant accomplish everything he proposed.
The GOP wont allow it. Some DEMs wont allow it.
Buy he can do 2 things...by himself.

First of all....You've got to allow the Bush tax breaks to lapse.
None of it trickled down, That was broken down theory.
As a country, we are hugely in debt and we cant afford tax breaks for companies , some of which are profiting at record rates...
He dosen't have to act. The cuts simply expire.

Yup.


Secondly, he has to end the war as quickily as possible.
There was no purpose for the Iraq occupation and there still isnt.
It is making the USA a bad word world wide and bankrupting our economy.

Immediate withdrawl was never his agenda. But I agree that -- what with Bush having accompished the mission and all -- the sooner the better.

Bush would never admit a blunder.

No, but he did purchase his fortress of solidtude in Uraguay, just in case anyone else noticed.

We have to save money and lives.

Bit late for that, isn't it?


Obama dosent need anyone's approval. He can simply order the troops to come home and the Iraq governemnt will take care if itself.

Ironically, given the power Bush assumed in that sphere, thanks to that feeble Congress, you're right!


What will happen when we leave?

It will probably go back to that halcyon place it was before we bombed it into democracy, I expect.

That's their problem.

Thank God no other nation's problems can migrate across borders, eh?

I dont care.

That's the kind of optimism which made America great.

Those two acts will stabilize our economy and lift national morale.
A raise in the minimum wage wouldnt hurt either.


Done well, such that Iraq doesn't fall apart, I'm incline to agree.

Done foolishly, such that Iraq reverts to another totalitarian nightmare, you will...believe me, you will.


Get that done and we'll be better off in 4 years than we are now.

Agreed.. within reason.
 
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It's the job of the one making an insinuation to defend their position.

Yes, they were.

Ok? We had no reason to invade Iraq regardless of "who didn't get the job done." The American people were lied to so that the Bush administration could continue it's un-winnable war on terrorism.


Uhhh... try looking at the binding terms of a cease fire agreement... and the consequences of not following them... then look at Saddam's Iraq pre Iraq Part II

War does not have to be declared for it to be a legal or justified action... the resolution(s) to use force in many instances after WWII are not illegal, although by a technical standpoint they are not "wars"
 
War does not have to be declared for it to be a legal or justified action... the resolution(s) to use force in many instances after WWII are not illegal, although by a technical standpoint they are not "wars"

So you're saying our Constitution is incorrect, and that the President can actually attack and invade whoever he wants?
 
So you're saying our Constitution is incorrect, and that the President can actually attack and invade whoever he wants?

There are provisions for the President to act without congress in national interest and protection... the constitution has not completely handcuffed the Prez or our military to be at the whim of congress... there is a reason why we have 1 commander in chief, and not hundreds of them... now the Prez WILL consult with congress and work with them, but in many instances he/she does not have to
 
It's the job of the one making an insinuation to defend their position.

Yes, they were.

Ok? We had no reason to invade Iraq regardless of "who didn't get the job done." The American people were lied to so that the Bush administration could continue it's un-winnable war on terrorism.
1. Gay marriage and abortion come to mind as liberal social policies that libertarians support, that is if they are true to their edict by keeping the government out of personal decisions.
2. If that's your position instead of saying "Bush lied" you should first list Truman (Korea), Kennedy (Viet Nam) and Clinton (Kosovo) as liars. But of course that would go against you actual agenda, which is to support Democrats.
3. The war on terrorism can be won easily by killing terrorists, becoming energy independent and keeping our borders secure.
 
1. Gay marriage and abortion come to mind as liberal social policies that libertarians support, that is if they are true to their edict by keeping the government out of personal decisions.
2. If that's your position instead of saying "Bush lied" you should first list Truman (Korea), Kennedy (Viet Nam) and Clinton (Kosovo) as liars. But of course that would go against you actual agenda, which is to support Democrats.
3. The war on terrorism can be won easily by killing terrorists, becoming energy independent and keeping our borders secure.

1. Absolutely. What right does the government have to sanction someone's personal relationships? Abortion is trickier, but yes it should be up to a woman, her family, and her doctor to decide what's best.

2. My actual agenda is not to support Democrats, or Republicans for that matter, but the Constitution. And as I stated in my previous post, all those wars were pointless and un-Constitutional.

3. You can't kill all the terrorists in the world, it's not possible and we'll end up bankrupting our nation if we continue this policy. Osama bin-Laden wanted us to come over there and attack, because it's made it easier for him to rally supporters to his cause. I'll agree with you on energy independence. The best way to keep our borders secure would be to bring our troops home so that they can actually defend them.
 
I love the argument that by defending ourselves, we make ourselves vulnerable.

I heard some lefty nutter on the radio last night who was talking about how securing our borders actually made them weaker, because it becomes more "lucrative" for ppl to breach them. So because there will always be a few who break the law, we should never enforce the law.

*twilight zone music here*
 
1. Absolutely. What right does the government have to sanction someone's personal relationships? Abortion is trickier, but yes it should be up to a woman, her family, and her doctor to decide what's best.

2. My actual agenda is not to support Democrats, or Republicans for that matter, but the Constitution. And as I stated in my previous post, all those wars were pointless and un-Constitutional.

3. You can't kill all the terrorists in the world, it's not possible and we'll end up bankrupting our nation if we continue this policy. Osama bin-Laden wanted us to come over there and attack, because it's made it easier for him to rally supporters to his cause. I'll agree with you on energy independence. The best way to keep our borders secure would be to bring our troops home so that they can actually defend them.

1. So therefore libertarians have liberal social policies, like I stated earlier.
2. Well again, claiming that Bush lied while ignoring the three Democrat Presidents who did the same thing shows a bias towards Democrats.
3. You don't have to kill all of them, just most of them. The remainder won't have the support of their countrymen. And when they're threatening our allies, like Saddam did, that's when you do it.
 
180 days and our men and women will be home. I'm not too sure about the 40,000 who will remain to fight the terrorism, but atleast it is a start.
 
Tell that to my friends and family over there who hate you and people like you because you will not allow them to fight to win.
 
1. So therefore libertarians have liberal social policies, like I stated earlier.
2. Well again, claiming that Bush lied while ignoring the three Democrat Presidents who did the same thing shows a bias towards Democrats.
3. You don't have to kill all of them, just most of them. The remainder won't have the support of their countrymen. And when they're threatening our allies, like Saddam did, that's when you do it.

1. I would consider them more common sense social policies to be honest, or maybe Constitutional social policies.

2. I don't think I can make it any clearer than I already have. I do not support their wars anymore than I support Bush's wars. Especially Vietnam, where we were not attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin as was reported.

3. You can't kill an ideal, and I repeat that we will bankrupt our country by trying. You need a defined enemy in a war, "terrorism" is not a defined enemy. It's an excuse used to keep our nation in a perpetual state of war. I once again refer you to Thomas Jefferson's views on "entangling alliances."
 
SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced--
(1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;
(2) into the territory, airspace or waters of a foreign nation, while equipped for combat, except for deployments which relate solely to supply, replacement, repair, or training of such forces; or
(3) in numbers which substantially enlarge United States Armed Forces equipped for combat already located in a foreign nation; the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate a report, in writing, setting forth--
(A) the circumstances necessitating the introduction of United States Armed Forces;
(B) the constitutional and legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and
(C) the estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement.

War Powers Resolution of 1973

October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing the Iraq War.

The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States "as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq."

So even though you may not agree with the methods and the original reasons for going into Iraq to say that that War is illegal is completely wrong as it was Authorized and is in complience with the War Powers Act. Secondly. by saying, lets end the War is to not understand the current situation in Iraq. Currently, US Forces are handing over authority for security to Iraqi forces and the situation there is much improved. So much so that Centcom recently announced that the US will withdraw 2 Brigades from Iraq 2 months sooner than planned. So I have news for you, the war is ending in Iraq and if allowed to continue as planned, US Forces will leave there and leave the country in the hands of the Iraqis with a chance for them to build a stong and free country that is peaceful.
 
1. I would consider them more common sense social policies to be honest, or maybe Constitutional social policies.

2. I don't think I can make it any clearer than I already have. I do not support their wars anymore than I support Bush's wars. Especially Vietnam, where we were not attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin as was reported.

3. You can't kill an ideal, and I repeat that we will bankrupt our country by trying. You need a defined enemy in a war, "terrorism" is not a defined enemy. It's an excuse used to keep our nation in a perpetual state of war. I once again refer you to Thomas Jefferson's views on "entangling alliances."

1. Just be honest and admit that you support the same social policies that liberals do.
2. Again, claiming Bush lied is not clear at all.
3. We killed fascism, which was an ideal. We can do the same with terrorism.
 
1. Just be honest and admit that you support the same social policies that liberals do.
2. Again, claiming Bush lied is not clear at all.
3. We killed fascism, which was an ideal. We can do the same with terrorism.

1. I'm being honest when I say that I'm pro-liberty, and if liberals agree with me then I have no problem with that.

2. Well if you're unable to gather my meaning from very clear statements then your critical reading skills leave much to be desired.

3. Interesting. The argument could be made that our current policy of spreading Democracy whether the rest of the world wants it or not is fascist.
 

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