Healthcare Projected To Cost Near $50 Trillion Over Next Ten Years

[Brain357]

Ok, let’s say it does that to doctors, fine... my point still stands regarding the effects on the poor and middle class. Care to address that?

Yes. I did. I don't understand why you think this is any different than any other issue.

If you pull into a McDonald's drive-thru and order a Big Mac, you pay for it before they give it to you. No pay, no Big Mac.

Big Macs are cheap. Why? Because nobody will buy that shit if it costs $10. What happens to McDonald's if NOBODY is willing (or able) to pay $10 for a Big Mac?

None of you seem to understand basic economics.

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Lots of alternatives to that Big Mac. Death the alternative to life saving surgery. You clearly don’t understand economics...

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Lots of alternatives to that Big Mac. Death the alternative to life saving surgery. You clearly don’t understand economics...

The alternative to paying for one doctor is death? Not another doctor?

I am not going to continue having a discussion with you if you are going to continue to deliberately confuse the issues.

Starvation is not the alternative to the Big Mac. Death is not the alternative to not using the expensive-ass doctor who thinks he is God.

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[Brain357]

We are all idiots when our life is on the line. That’s why there is no downward pressure on pricing.

So, then the solution is for idiots to pay for their stupid decisions. Not me.

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That’s not a solution.

 

[Brain357]

Lots of alternatives to that Big Mac. Death the alternative to life saving surgery. You clearly don’t understand economics...

The alternative to paying for one doctor is death? Not another doctor?

I am not going to continue having a discussion with you if you are going to continue to deliberately confuse the issues.

Starvation is not the alternative to the Big Mac. Death is not the alternative to not using the expensive-ass doctor who thinks he is God.

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A whopper is pretty good compared to Big Mac. A bad surgery that causes death is a whole lot worse than a good surgery.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

That’s not a solution.

THEN, THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS BETTER LEARN TO BARGAIN SHOP!!!! YOU DON'T BUY A FERRARI IF YOUR BUDGE CALLS FOR A YUGO!!!

 

[bendog]

The largest tax break in America is for employers to pay for insurance. If there's no tax incentive they aren't gonna pay or give anyone a raise because their competitors can undercut their product prices by cutting costs if the tax break is gone. So, it's beyond naïve to say patients should just pay.

And if someone is having a stroke or just had their 4 wheeler flip and landed on their head, trying to argue consumer choice is either a willful refusal to face facts or an outright lie.

BUT, if there's a financial advantage to shopping for who prescribes your bloodpressure meds or statins and does your cancer screening, I don't think anyone disagrees that prices would at least be contained.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

A whopper is pretty good compared to Big Mac. A bad surgery that causes death is a whole lot worse than a good surgery.

You wrongly assume that all surgeries must cost a year's salary or one will die.

(note: I am properly responding to a false dichotomy argument)

 

[Brain357]

That’s not a solution.

THEN, THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS BETTER LEARN TO BARGAIN SHOP!!!! YOU DON'T BUY A FERRARI IF YOUR BUDGE CALLS FOR A YUGO!!!

A Ferrari and a yugo will both get you where you want to go. Bad surgery gets you dead.

 

[Brain357]

A whopper is pretty good compared to Big Mac. A bad surgery that causes death is a whole lot worse than a good surgery.

You wrongly assume that all surgeries must cost a year's salary or one will die.

(note: I am properly responding to a false dichotomy argument)

I’m explaining why people aren’t smart shoppers when it comes to healthcare.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

A Ferrari and a yugo will both get you where you want to go. Bad surgery gets you dead.

Again, you wrongly assume that any surgery not costing a $1 million will cause death.

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[Brain357]

That’s not a solution.

THEN, THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS BETTER LEARN TO BARGAIN SHOP!!!! YOU DON'T BUY A FERRARI IF YOUR BUDGE CALLS FOR A YUGO!!!

You have done a fine job of proving there is no solution other than single payer.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I’m explaining why people aren’t smart shoppers when it comes to healthcare.

And, I am explaining why that is a BULLSHIT EXCUSE!!!

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[Brain357]

A Ferrari and a yugo will both get you where you want to go. Bad surgery gets you dead.

Again, you wrongly assume that any surgery not costing a $1 million will cause death.

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I’m going to the extreme so even a simpleton like you can understand. Knee surgery that doesn’t fix your knee doesn’t have much value...

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You have done a fine job of proving there is no solution other than single payer.

You have done a fine job proving that the only reason we would even need such an illegal and immoral theft by government is because BEGGARS WANT TO BE CHOOSERS!!!

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[Brain357]

I’m explaining why people aren’t smart shoppers when it comes to healthcare.

And, I am explaining why that is a BULLSHIT EXCUSE!!!

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So far you’ve just said let the poor and middle class go broke and die.

 

[Brain357]

You have done a fine job of proving there is no solution other than single payer.

You have done a fine job proving that the only reason we would even need such an illegal and immoral theft by government is because BEGGARS WANT TO BE CHOOSERS!!!

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So you have no solution.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I’m going to the extreme so even a simpleton like you can understand. Knee surgery that doesn’t fix your knee doesn’t have much value...

And for some reason, the word "healthcare" makes you go retarded and treat it like it is something other than a service.

Knee surgery that does not fix your knee is failure to perform. What should one be required to pay for a surgery that does not work?

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[Andylusion]

I understand the simple concept but the system is much more complicated than that. A standard of care/coverage needs to be set, right? You can’t have people going to the doctor every day for every sniffle free of charge, right? The dynamic totally changes when people no longer have to pay for things. How many more doctors appointments will be made? How will doctors offices handle the increased traffic? What will wait times look like? How will costs be effected? How is abuse identified and prevented?

I would be more concerned about abuses by doctors and health care providers than I would be about patients abusing the system. Yes, you can have people going to the doctor for every sniffle, free of charge. In a system where everyone has equal right to access, patients don't abuse the system. But doctors and clinics can and do.

People don't go to the doctor for every sniffle because it's too much trouble to do so. Making the appointment, taking time off work, sitting around the office with a bunch of sick people. Yes we have shortages of caregivers here, but please remember that the the Medicial Industrial Complex controls the number of people entering medical school, and keeps the number of new doctors artificially low to keep prices high.

Costs will go down. Substantially. I read an article a few years ago written by a doctor who had worked in both Canada and the US and he said that the made more money in the US, but he got to keep more of the money he made in Canada. That was because the government controls reimbursement rates for all procedures in Canada. Reimbursement rates are control by the Provinces, so they're adjusted based on local costs. This doctor said he spent more time with patients and was able to see more patients in Canada, and focus on their care, not on getting pre-approvals with insurance companies. He also didn't need a third party billing company to collect co-pays and bill insurance companies. His receptionist billed the province.

We have no co-pays on doctor visits or hospital care. You can buy a private or semi-private room in hospital, as well as cable TV and computer access, but our program only covers prescriptions for children seniors, and doesn't cover dental, so we have supplemental insurance with co-pays there, through employers.

A agree that abuse from doctors and clinics and pharma are also big concerns. Regarding your other point, do you think Canada has better medical care than the US?

People who I know with experience with both prefer Canada.

Until they are on a waiting list for 3 years.... Free is always preferable, until you find out the difference in quality.

By the way, do they also prefer the taxes?

Nobody goes on 3 year waiting lists, that’s a myth. Yes some things may take a few months. But here people don’t even go to doctor for a few months cause of $$.

Oh bull crap.

Timely Medical | Timely Surgery at Affordable Prices

You are telling me that this for profit company, that has been in operation for 15 years, whose entire business plan is helping people in Canada escape multi-year long waiting lists.... is operating in a country that has no waiting lists? Bull crap.

And by the way, the Canadian government itself disagrees with you.

Management of MRI Wait Lists in Canada

"Our results document that most MRI facilities in Canada have a substantial wait list problem, with some centres reporting wait times of up to one month for urgent scans and up to several years for non-urgent scans."

"The wait times for the most elective category varied from 28 days to three years, with one centre stating that they were simply unable to scan cases prioritized as elective."

So the government of Canada itself, is admitting this problem.

You people know absolutely nothing, and spout off like you have a clue. The facts prove your opinion wrong.

 

[Brain357]

I’m going to the extreme so even a simpleton like you can understand. Knee surgery that doesn’t fix your knee doesn’t have much value...

And for some reason, the word "healthcare" makes you go retarded and treat it like it is something other than a service.

Knee surgery that does not fix your knee is failure to perform. What should one be required to pay for a surgery that does not work?

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I suspect people would be limping even with successful surgery if it means a discount. That wouldn’t decrease the cost of surgery...

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So you have no solution.

Let me describe this argument to you with something OTHER than healthcare, because for some reason, you go fucking retarded on this topic.

Mechanic: "You need transmission rebuild. It's gonna cost you $20,000."
Car Owner: "I can't pay that. That's almost as much as the car is worth."
Mechanic: "Tough shit. You could try that guy down the street. He's much cheaper. Only $3500."
Car Owner: "But, surely he will end up completely destroying my car if that is all he is charging. So, I will go with you. Here's my credit card."

That is what you are telling me that I must accept and subsidize.

Well, FUCK YOU!!!

I have no solution because you can't fix stupid. Stupid people deserve the consequences of their stupidity.

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