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Everyone needs food. Farmers and grocery stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs clothing. Clothing designers and stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs housing. Building supply stores and contractors should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Right? I mean if we're going down this road, let's go down it.
Heard this one on here before.
There's a big difference between food, clothes and housing and healthcare.
But i guess trying to make everything really nice and simple allows you to treat everything the same.
When people get cancer, it can be life and death. People who work a normal job can afford food, they can afford housing and clothes, they're a part of every day life. Cancer isn't a part of every day life for most people, but when it happens, it happens hard.
Do you see the difference?
Not me. People bought insurance for those catastrophic cases. That's what insurance is for, a pooling of resources for the few big ticket items. Somehow the responsible folks managed to do this before Obama came along. You can't survive without food, period. Food is much more important, without it, you have no health to insure to care for.While we're at it...
Everyone needs food. Farmers and grocery stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs clothing. Clothing designers and stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs housing. Building supply stores and contractors should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Right? I mean if we're going down this road, let's go down it.
Heard this one on here before.
There's a big difference between food, clothes and housing and healthcare.
But i guess trying to make everything really nice and simple allows you to treat everything the same.
When people get cancer, it can be life and death. People who work a normal job can afford food, they can afford housing and clothes, they're a part of every day life. Cancer isn't a part of every day life for most people, but when it happens, it happens hard.
Do you see the difference?
Not eating and sleeping outside in freezing temperatures also cause death. Therefore, using your logic, food and shelter should be free to all and no one should ever make a profit on them.
once again your liberal "logic" fails.
Not me. People bought insurance for those catastrophic cases. That's what insurance is for, a pooling of resources for the few big ticket items. Somehow the responsible folks managed to do this before Obama came along. You can't survive without food, period. Food is much more important, without it, you have no health to insure to care for.
Your health will go downhill fast without a place to live, being exposed to the elements and God knows what. Again, you might survive without health insurance but your days are numbered without shelter.
So if it makes sense to you to not provide food and housing for non working folks, what sense does it make to provide health care?
Why the FUCK is government involved at all? Guess they love to abridge Liberty of the individual....Not me. People bought insurance for those catastrophic cases. That's what insurance is for, a pooling of resources for the few big ticket items. Somehow the responsible folks managed to do this before Obama came along. You can't survive without food, period. Food is much more important, without it, you have no health to insure to care for.
Your health will go downhill fast without a place to live, being exposed to the elements and God knows what. Again, you might survive without health insurance but your days are numbered without shelter.
So if it makes sense to you to not provide food and housing for non working folks, what sense does it make to provide health care?
Yep, insurance is a pooling of resources. So is paying taxes and the govt paying the money.
What's the difference?
The difference is that if I pay insurance, I have to pay the insurance company to insure me. I have to pay someone to merely hand the money out when required. But not only do I pay for this service, I also have to pay for their profits, and they can be big profits.
I have to pay for them to lobby congress, i have to pay for them to make sure that healthcare doesn't become nationalised, because they spend a lot of money on that too.
When push comes to shove, I might not get what I even paid for because they're going to put as much effort (from the money I PAID) into making sure they don't actually have to pay me.
But again, I've made the points in the previous post about the difference between food, housing and clothing compared to healthcare which you are welcome to respond to.
And it is up to the individual to provide these things for themselves. True Liberty is an all or nothing exercise. I completely agree with your contention here.Doesn't matter. Without food, clothing, and shelter, a person will die. There's no way around it. Without medical care, a person will die.
Now, if we should require medicine to be non-profit because of necessity, then we should require the same of food, clothing, and shelter. If anything medicine should get a pass because it is not generally a lifetime requirement, but you will need food, clothing, and shelter from birth to death.
Not eating and sleeping outside in freezing temperatures also cause death. Therefore, using your logic, food and shelter should be free to all and no one should ever make a profit on them.
once again your liberal "logic" fails.
Yeah, if you want to play silly beggars, then of course my logic will always be faulty, as you can't really use logic when people are willing to use anything to make a point regardless.
Yes, if people sleep outside, then they might die.
However, if you actually think about it. First, people need housing, or a room, all the time. They need food, all the time, they need clothes all the time. They are essential elements of life that are used daily.
So, by being used daily there is, in richer countries at least, a tendency of people to put aside for this sort of thing, because if they don't, it's going to cause major problems, on a daily basis.
I can basically figure out how much I need for food a day, because generally I eat about the same amount of food a day. I can figure out how much I'm going to need of housing, and I will probably work it out based on how much I earn. The same with clothes, though I don't need to buy them daily, I might buy new clothes every few months or so.
But healthcare is different. It happens suddenly. It happens arbitrarily. One person gets smacked with cancer while another person doesn't.
You know all of this. You can see the difference, why is it so hard?
Republicans will tell you that profit ensures excellence.
If you don't reward excellence, you will get incompetence.
This is true, to an extent. But it ignores what Republicans have been taught to ignore, namely that profit incentivizes corruption as much as it does excellence. This is why drug companies pay doctors to push high profit drugs. This is why the system is designed to push unneeded treatments, diagnostic services and medicines.
When making money is the only value, people do whatever is necessary to make more money, including using the centralizing power of government to imprison consumers in a rigged market of limited options.
Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.
Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?
I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.
So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.
Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.
The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.
All businesses exist for ONE REASON and ONE REASON ONLY..... PROFIT. If there is no profit to be made in something, nobody with any modicrum of intelligence goes into business doing it. Medicine/Health Care is the exact same way. That's not a Democrat or Republican thing, that's a COMMON SENSE thing.
As soon as people on the Left begin to comprehend that, and the idea that nothing happens if there is no profit in it, things will begin to turn around. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that day.
Yep. And THAT is why healthcare should not be run by BUSINESS.
If patient A has cancer
And patient B has cancer
And patient A is rich
And patient B is not
Which patient is a doctor most likely to spend time saving?
Helping and saving fellow man should NOT be a decision driven by profit. Your savior, Jesus Christ, would not want us behaving like this towards each other. Would Jesus heal a man based on how much gold he could receive in return?
Soooo. you like a system that is even more "socialist" than our system. The swiss system requires insurance for all, subsidies to the poor and profits can't be made on the basic insurance.
So maybe you don't like Obamacare because it's not socialist enough? That must be it.
Such a ridiculous statement to make.
You are basically one of those people who have been told that socialism is bad, it must be bad, it has to be bad, it can't seriously work, no, no, no.
Open your eyes.
Insurance companies are part of the problem in the US. They make profit, and instill corruption within the system.
Admin for healthcare in the US is 30% of overall spending, that's double what Canada spends as a percentage (and far more because the US spends double what Canada spends, so it spends 4 times more just messing around with admin).
Why should I have to fill the pockets of some insurance dude who doesn't actually make me better, in order to get healthcare? It's ridiculous.
But the Swiss have the highest life expectancy in the world, they do so for less money. And all you whine on about is "socialism" or at least your warped view of what socialism means.
They whine about government making decisions on healthcare but have no problem that a clerk making 12 dollars an hour working for an insurance company can make the call on health care base on insurance company rules. Health insurance companys do NOTHING but skim off the top. But that's OK with the blunt skulls
You're not very bright or well informed, are you?Such a ridiculous statement to make.
You are basically one of those people who have been told that socialism is bad, it must be bad, it has to be bad, it can't seriously work, no, no, no.
Open your eyes.
Insurance companies are part of the problem in the US. They make profit, and instill corruption within the system.
Admin for healthcare in the US is 30% of overall spending, that's double what Canada spends as a percentage (and far more because the US spends double what Canada spends, so it spends 4 times more just messing around with admin).
Why should I have to fill the pockets of some insurance dude who doesn't actually make me better, in order to get healthcare? It's ridiculous.
But the Swiss have the highest life expectancy in the world, they do so for less money. And all you whine on about is "socialism" or at least your warped view of what socialism means.
They whine about government making decisions on healthcare but have no problem that a clerk making 12 dollars an hour working for an insurance company can make the call on health care base on insurance company rules. Health insurance companys do NOTHING but skim off the top. But that's OK with the blunt skulls
Great post.People have the dumbest frigging ideas about healthcare these days, I swear to God. The level of entitlement, laziness, and whining pathos just appalls me.
Case in point: Today I took a call from a patient who was incensed - literally INCENSED! - because the claim he put in for his medication at a retail pharmacy was rejected by the insurance. I looked up the claim and explained that his insurance plan only covered that medication with a prior authorization. Next words out of his mouth - and I could see it coming, because I have this exact same conversation multiple times every day; it's like there's a script somewhere: "What gives you the right to override my doctor's decision about my medications and tell me I can't take this?" *sigh*
Now I'm rolling my eyes and drumming my fingers on the desk, trying to maintain a polite, professional tone of voice instead of telling this guy what I'm really thinking. You leftists in the audience are going, "Yeah, he's right!" but you conservatives out there know exactly what's coming.
"Sir, no one is overriding your doctor or telling you you can't take the medication. You're more than welcome to fill the prescription out-of-pocket, and no one will stop you. However, the insurance company reserves the right to choose not to pay for this medication unless certain criteria are met. All you need to do is have your doctor initiate a coverage review requesting that they pay for the medication."
What followed was much whining about how much pain he was in, didn't we understand how important his medications were, he paid a lot for his insurance and how dare they not cover everything he might want whenever he might want it, I guess I'll just skip my medication and suffer, and other such maunderings. The funny thing is that in amongst all that whinging was a lot of complaining about how it was too much trouble for him to call his doctor and pass along the phone number to our Prior Authorizations department so he could get an approval by tomorrow and go pick up his frigging prescription. I thought you just said it was important, dumbass. Now it's not important enough for you to make a freaking phone call to your own doctor? Really?
Many Americans are whiny crybabies that are responsible for nothing and act like they are special and demand to be treated as such. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why you can't take a medication indefinitely without supervision. They would be the first to sue if complications developed. They're spoiled brats and some of the elderly are the worse ones.
If they make 5 or 50 dollars an hour it doesn't change the fact that they should follow company guidelines. I never heard of a clerk making those decisions, it's up to the practitioner and insurance providers. Making profits are slimming off the top? How much money should they loose to suit you?They whine about government making decisions on healthcare but have no problem that a clerk making 12 dollars an hour working for an insurance company can make the call on health care base on insurance company rules. Health insurance companys do NOTHING but skim off the top. But that's OK with the blunt skulls
One is voluntary, the other isn't.Not me. People bought insurance for those catastrophic cases. That's what insurance is for, a pooling of resources for the few big ticket items. Somehow the responsible folks managed to do this before Obama came along. You can't survive without food, period. Food is much more important, without it, you have no health to insure to care for.
Your health will go downhill fast without a place to live, being exposed to the elements and God knows what. Again, you might survive without health insurance but your days are numbered without shelter.
So if it makes sense to you to not provide food and housing for non working folks, what sense does it make to provide health care?
Yep, insurance is a pooling of resources. So is paying taxes and the govt paying the money.
What's the difference?
I did above. It's inconsistent to support the taxing and funding of one and not the other. What drives cost down is competition. This state added requirements every year to insurance companies so there were few options. Even then it bumped up a good bit every year. Greed? It cost more to cover more, period. I have to pay for drug treatment, alcohol treatment, mental health, etc. With no option to cross state lines. You are only willing to consider one aspect and refuse to look at the whole problem.The difference is that if I pay insurance, I have to pay the insurance company to insure me. I have to pay someone to merely hand the money out when required. But not only do I pay for this service, I also have to pay for their profits, and they can be big profits.
I have to pay for them to lobby congress, i have to pay for them to make sure that healthcare doesn't become nationalised, because they spend a lot of money on that too.
When push comes to shove, I might not get what I even paid for because they're going to put as much effort (from the money I PAID) into making sure they don't actually have to pay me.
But again, I've made the points in the previous post about the difference between food, housing and clothing compared to healthcare which you are welcome to respond to.
Single payer isn't "free shit", it's the most effective and efficient way to deliver healthcare to a populace. You know how insurance pools work, right? More people spreading the cost out...healthy people paying for sick ones, etc. You understand all that right?
Do you also understand supplemental insurance? Insurance companies will survive. America will have a two tier system, no worries.
Single payer-government health care=failure.
Government is never the most effective or efficient way to do anything. They always fuck up. Always.
Riiiggghttt...that's why all the countries with it have better outcomes and pay less. Yeah, makes perfect sense.
That makes more sense than some customer relations dweeb deciding that you had your alloted blood pressure medication.For the record, the decisions about which medications are on the insurance companys' formularies, which aren't, and which list the ones which are fall on are made by a panel of doctors, pharmacists, and actuaries employed by the insurance company. The same is true for the prescription benefit manager for whom I work. The policies by which claims are processed are likewise made by people MUCH further up the food chain than the front-line agents who get the joy of telling the patients about those decisions. They get paid a hell of a lot more than I do, and have commensurate educations in their specific fields. My job as an agent is to do one thing only: read the information on the screen and explain it to the doofus on the other end of the phone. I don't decide jack squat, and I'm perfectly happy with that.
I answered that above. Which part of that escapes you? If a patient continues a medication unmonitored they could develop problems. Then they may blame the doctor. Or pharmacy. Or insurance company that helped pay for it, etc.Great post.
Many Americans are whiny crybabies that are responsible for nothing and act like they are special and demand to be treated as such. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why you can't take a medication indefinitely without supervision. They would be the first to sue if complications developed. They're spoiled brats and some of the elderly are the worse ones.
Perhaps people just want things to work for them.
When things don't work, you have to wonder why they're not being fixed.
Why are things made with hoops to jump through, places to get caught out, problems to solve for no reason other than an insurance company wants to stop people being able to claim money from them so they can make high profits?
Yes, people in western countries are spoiled, that's what comes from having a good life. You have expectations about the good life, and one of those is not to be screwed over by people.
Your attitude exemplifies the problem, Some people think if they don't get their way it's a conspiracy to keep them down and they deserve a good life. And if the company doesn't loose money or break even they were ripped off.
