Healthcare should not be a PROFIT driven field

[thereisnospoon]

Could we please have numbers on all these "profits" ?

I'd like to see how much profit is being made as a percentage of the amount of money spent each year.

I am all for getting better health care.

The way to do it is to get government out of the system. They've been in it for 50 years and they are the reason it so screwed up.

check my post on page 9 of this thread

 

[Lenore]

What she means is that she hasn't needed to use the new, improved system yet.

Or that she is one of the leech class that has never worked and never been able to afford any health care at all before, and now suddenly, she's getting her teeth taken care of, and she's able to get those pain killers and anti depressants she's always had to go to the ER to get prescriptions before. THOSE people, the takers, LOVE the new system.

 

[Fishlore]

"And of course the AMA does not regulate the number of doctors to keep salaries up.

Why don't we start there. Regulate their salaries. That way, the best and brightest will drop out and the guy doing your heat transplant will the guy who should have been working on your car."

It is good to see a conservative fineally getting the facts straight. The AMA does not regulate the number of doctors. Doctors' salaries (that is doctors not in private practice) are not being kept up by anyone. The rapidly growing number of N.P.s and P. A.s mid-level practitioners, who Medicare pays 85% of what it pays M.D.s for the same procedure, is having a revolutionary effect on the economics of family care and primary care organizations.

Financial compensation is not a primary issue for M.D.s, most of whom are happy with the transition from private practice to salaried professional. A majority of students in med schol now are women and for both men and women there regular hours and freedom from paperwork are cited as the big reasons for preferring the new career structure.

Docs in these fields, which are the largest and have the biggest shortage, are not very well paid either. The national average is around $175,000. Compare that with your average divorce lawyer or member of Congress and ask yourself, "who is contributing the most to the community?"

 

[thereisnospoon]

Nice of you to give confirmation that I am correct, at least about you.

as if a left-wing nutjob needed confirmation to convince herself she's "correct"

Take a look at the posts on this thread, not a even a little bit of acknowledgement of the problem or sympathy for the afflicted. If you people do not want to be seen as heartless assholes who like it that people die for lack of money then change your shitty tune.

Ahh yes..Here it is...The emoting.
"Sympathy"..
Tell us, why is it that the liberal view of compassion always begins in someone else's bank account?

 

[P@triot]

The American Left is so arrogant they think they can repeat the same shit and make it work even after it fails.

Except it hasn't "failed" anywhere.

I'm fascinated by your ability to ignore reality in favor of idealism. Please tell us again how liberalism "hasn't failed anywhere"...

This is straight from the CBO....

Explosive Report: How Obamacare Will Drive People Out of the Workforce

And it seems that their data analysis was accurate too given the latest news:

Over 800,000 people left the work force in April

 

[Avatar4321]

So people should let their families starve in the name of helping others?

I see no reason why people providing an important service like health care should not be compensated for their labor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.

Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.

The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.

Yes Bucs, you're absolutely right, there should be no profit in the health of a nation just like there should be no profit in its defense. We should outlaw health profiteering as readily as we did war profiteering.

Until we join the rest of the developed countries and move toward a single payer system, we will continue to fall behind other countries. Tell me, if you were going to start up a company would you do it where healthcare was paid for or where you, the employer has to pay for it? What makes the most business sense?

It will be big business that moves us to a single payer system, not the actual needs of the people unfortunately.

If you think health insurance involves bureaucratic nightmares here, well, you're correct.
Now, try living in one of those socialized medicine utopias of which you speak so fondly. Then come back and tell us how great it is.
Tell us, where did you get the idea that medical care should be absent of out of pocket expense....On demand?

 

[P@triot]

as if a left-wing nutjob needed confirmation to convince herself she's "correct"

Take a look at the posts on this thread, not a even a little bit of acknowledgement of the problem or sympathy for the afflicted. If you people do not want to be seen as heartless assholes who like it that people die for lack of money then change your shitty tune.

Ahh yes..Here it is...The emoting.
"Sympathy"..
Tell us, why is it that the liberal view of compassion always begins in someone else's bank account?

[MENTION=33716]occupied[/MENTION] cares sooooo much he has covered the health insurance policy for exactly zero people in his lifetime. He cares sooooo much, he has picked up the medical bills for exactly zero people in his lifetime. He cares sooooo much, he has opened a hospital and provided free or low-cost healthcare for exactly zero people in his lifetime. He cares sooooo much, he has opened his own insurance company and provided free or low-cost health insurance for exactly zero people in his lifetime. He cares sooooo much, he has become a physician and provided free or low-cost healthcare for exactly zero people in his lifetime.

Yeah, nobody "cares" quite like occupied does!

 

[The Rabbi]

I think people should serve in the military for free. It's warmongering to pay people to make war.

 

[srlip]

of COURSE it should be profit driven. your "need" is not a valid claim on anyone else's time or resources. Provide for yourself, rely or charity, or do the right thing and suiciide, not burden others. Dont be a tick.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes Bucs, you're absolutely right, there should be no profit in the health of a nation just like there should be no profit in its defense. We should outlaw health profiteering as readily as we did war profiteering.

Until we join the rest of the developed countries and move toward a single payer system, we will continue to fall behind other countries. Tell me, if you were going to start up a company would you do it where healthcare was paid for or where you, the employer has to pay for it? What makes the most business sense?

It will be big business that moves us to a single payer system, not the actual needs of the people unfortunately.

making a profit isnt the same as "profiteering"

why dont you left-wing morons all move to a place with no "greedy" corporations?
i hear North Korea is nice this time of year

Making a profit by denying lifesaving care to sick people is profiteering.

And just what do you think Obamacare will provide? Do you think that an insurance system which borrows money from one govt program( Medicare) and transfers it to another is the answer? Do you think cutting reimbursements to medical care providers is the answer?
Do you think that medical facilities are simply going to absorb the new costs associated with Obamacare and keep operating as usual? Example.....Many hospitals and providers are refusing medicare and exchange insured patients because the facility simply cannot afford to treat them.
The fact is that ACA is setting up a class system. One where those insured thru the exchanges and those insured through medicare will receive standard care, while those who have private insurance or are cash patients will receive the best care.
The fact is that even not for profit hospitals practice medicine in which cost of treatment is placed ahead of care in the cases where an unusual or very expensive treatment is required. The fact is that doctors request redundant tests just to cover their diagnoses in order to avoid litigation. Yeah...One of the largest types of law practice are medical malpractice firms. One time and now disgraced Senator John Edwards of NC runs a law practice that specializes in suing medical professionals and medical facilities. These people are unscrupulous sharks. They file these ridiculous suits for huge sums of money so that the defendant(s) are forced to settle. The law firms take 40% of the settlement. The plaintiff gets the rest. Nice work if you can get it. Meanwhile those costs are passed along to patients, hospitals and doctors.
And you sit there with arms crossed going "it's the doctors who are greedy." No, it's the insurance companies that are greedy"....No, It's the hospitals that are greedy"...No, it's Big Pharma....Blah blah blah....
Look, this system is not perfect. Your side looks to push the pendulum so far in one direction, it's going to knock it off the hook. Don't think for a second these single payer county patients are in some sort of utopian heaven.

 

[Stephanie]

as if a left-wing nutjob needed confirmation to convince herself she's "correct"

Take a look at the posts on this thread, not a even a little bit of acknowledgement of the problem or sympathy for the afflicted. If you people do not want to be seen as heartless assholes who like it that people die for lack of money then change your shitty tune.

Ahh yes..Here it is...The emoting.
"Sympathy"..
Tell us, why is it that the liberal view of compassion always begins in someone else's bank account?

that's their idea of caring...their ways needs to be FORCED on others or you get called lovely names and accused of NOT CARING about others
it's a disgusting tactic of theirs...watch all the progressives/commies in congress they do the same thing

 

[Edgetho]

Just got back from the Dog Park, exercising His Royal Majesty.

Haven't followed the thread so if this is a repeat, please accept my humblest and most sincere oopsie

Here it is people -- Simple.

Whenever the profit motive is taken from a business..... We can talk about Capitalism, socialism and all the "isms" in the world but what matters is this....

The enterprise that uneducated, stupid, incoherent, moronic dimocraps think they're 'improving'?

It has the exact opposite effect every time.

I mean EVERY time.

Instead of placing the customer or, in this case, the patient first, they inevitably place the people working at said enterprise first and FUCK the customer or patient.

It NEVER fails. Every time.

These ignorant FUCKS want to replace the caring and capable people at Cleveland Clinic with DMV workers.

Trust me, I've seen it.

I go to the VA in Miami and let me tell you something..... The Patient is somewhere around 34th in priority at the VA.

In fact, I believe that a Patient could fall on the floor, have an attack or a seizure and the employees would rifle through his pockets and walk around him. Until a Doctor or Tech got there. Even then.... It's touchie,

I have had conversations with VA employees such that if my employee talked to one of my customers that way, I would fire her on the spot. No warning, no talking to -- Fired, get the FUCK out of my Office. And so would ANY other Private Business.

But goober-mint employees? Sullen, distant, uncaring, noncommittal, indifferent, surly and unresponsive to Patient or Customer needs.

Get used to it, people. the scumbag you voted into office just made you a present of that employee for all your future health care needs,

Unless you can afford the other side of the now two-tiered system.

Can you?

dimocraps are stupid. They don't think. They just don't

 

[Silhouette]

Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.

Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.

The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.

Well put. Malignant capitalism is a snake eating its own tail. It pretends as it eats that the food it consumes is not itself in the end... [the declining middle class]

Would we make the preservation of life in other arenas a profit-driven affair? Would we make only the rich be able to access law enforcement? Only the well to do can get fire suppression? How do you draw the line between preserving human life and preserving human life? Why is one the sacred cow for social funding and the other isn't?

I've brought this up before and to my utter astonishment, the rebuttal was "we should privatize fire suppression and the police/military etc." I though "wow" denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

People, workers and business owners, via this privatized healthcare system are all bearing the $$ equivalent of another mortgage in monthly outlay. Imagine if we utilized Article I, Section 8 and taxed tobacco, junk food and alcohol [cancer, diabetes/heart disease, chirrosis] to pay for themselves? What would this economy do with a sudden influx of all that cash people would have on their hands to spend on other things like filling their gas tanks, vacations, dining out, traveling, clothing, luxuries??

We might even spur a whole new economy with one little Article I, Section 8 enactment.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Bullshit, where's that river of good jobs and income trickling down? Christ we should all be very well off according to the conservative dogma you people have been preaching like the true gospel for thirty years. It's conservative policies that failed, liberals are just a handy scapegoat.

LMAO!1
you mindless morons on the Left ikeep forgetting YOU'RE IN CHARGE!1

THIS IS THE EIGHTH-STRAIGHT year of overall Progressive majority rule in the USA
why dont you ask yourselves where the river of good jobs is?

oh wait i know why; because you losers live in a world of denial and projection of your own failures onto others

Progressives are not in charge, we wanted a clean single payer health care system and got this shit. I am probably as sick of fucking democrat neo-cons as you are.

Oh really? The GOP was SHUT OUT off all meetings where decisions were made as to the writing and implementation of the law. Every single GOP proposal was denied out of hand.
And FYI, there was NEVER any intent to pass a single payer law.
It is impossible for a single payer system to cover 315 million people without a gargantuan bureaucracy and the funding would have driven taxation to levels that would stop the US economy from functioning.
We will NEVER have a single payer government run system. Never.
Why on Earth would anyone who knows how inefficient and expensive ways government does things want that very same government put in charge of their medical needs.

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals believe in Classic Marxism. Karl Marx believed that everyone would work for free in the interests of the greater good. Doctors didn't work for money, they treated patients for the good of humanity. The garbage collector doesn't need to be paid because he wants clean cities. The farmer wants to feed people, not profit off hunger. In exchange for providing their services for free, the provider got all his services for free. The farmer can go to the Dairy and get milk free because the Dairy gets tomatoes for free.

The end result of all this free stuff is that no one does anything. We learned that in the very earliest days of settlements in this country.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ok. Just to put it bluntly: The ability to save a human life, or vastly improve their life, should NOT be one that is driven by profit.

Whats the answer? Im not sure. People have to get paid for their work, yes. But the HUGE profits being raked in by the pharma companies, hospitals, doctors, etc, at the expense of what?

I recently read of a new pill that can literally cure Hepatitis C. But....the pills are $1,000 each, and a person would need many of them, making the cost prohibitive to insurance companies.

So you have a big pharma company who developed the very expensive pill; And hospitals who can give the very expensive pill; And insurance companies who may have to pay for the pill. And insurance companies don't wanna pay for it.

Just one of many countless examples of how we humans COULD save or help someone.....but, is it profitable? The profit seems to matter more than the end result lately, and it is a bunch of nonsense.

The pure greed of this nation's population is what will destroy us. Not some cavemen in the Middle East.

Ahhh, so those who show some interest in health care as a career shall be required to live as 13th century monks, complete with vow of poverty, burlap clothing and wooden bunks, or companies seeking to develop healthcare equipment, machinery or medicines should do so out of thin air.

As with all such price fixing schemes, once the price is set the supply dries up.

Really? Is that how health care professionals live in:

Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, Belgium, UK, Sweden etc? No, of course not. Try harder.

In these countries, medical professionals are de facto government employees. Their wages are set by policy. Treatment is administered by committee and scheduled on time frames that are far longer than here in the US.
Medical care is carefully rationed. IN many instances, the health and medical care expenses have nearly bankrupted some EU countries.
Look, if you want single payer, go live in one those countries.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Remember how freaked out they got over Alan Grayson saying this?

Alan Grayson on the GOP Health Care Plan: "Don't Get Sick! And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!"' - YouTube

And then they turn around and prove it. Shocking!

good one doofus; except that countries with socialized health care have WORSE OUTCOMES fo things like cancer; so it is in these countries that they want them to "hurry up and die"

libs are losers who lie to themselves

oh and nice job using an unhinged far-left loser who threatened to kill his wife as a symbol of your values!!

And that's good enough for you? Would it be good enough if the US military was only superior in one thing? We suck for health care delivery in this country. It is a lie to say we don't.

We have the best medical care in the world. That's a fact.

 

[g5000]

Healthcare should not be profit driven?

Oh, I see.

Well, then, I guess food should not be profit driven. We all need food, too!

I guess building roads should not be profit driven.

Fuck. We should just let the State take over the means of production for everything.

 

[Edgetho]

Healthcare should not be profit driven?

Oh, I see.

Well, then, I guess food should not be profit driven. We all need food, too!

I guess building roads should not be profit driven.

Fuck. We should just let the State take over the means of production for everything.

That's the idea