Hero worship in politics

[editec]

I come here to make myself feel smarter by comparison.

 

[Mac1958]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Some people play the game....some people watch and criticize.

 

[aaronleland]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

This is my theory on why there is such low voter turnout in this country. The people you speak of are the very vocal minority in this country. It's easy to become disillusioned with politics while watching so many of your own countrymen help perpetrate this silly game. I'm guessing a majority of the country could care less about a lot of the issues discussed on the 24 hour news channels. They have kids to feed and lives to lead. As long as they can lead those lives with minimal interference they could care less what Limbaugh and Bashir are bickering about that day.

 

[Mac1958]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

This is my theory on why there is such low voter turnout in this country. The people you speak of are the very vocal minority in this country. It's easy to become disillusioned with politics while watching so many of your own countrymen help perpetrate this silly game. I'm guessing a majority of the country could care less about a lot of the issues discussed on the 24 hour news channels. They have kids to feed and lives to lead. As long as they can lead those lives with minimal interference they could care less what Limbaugh and Bashir are bickering about that day.

Agree 1000%.

The partisan ideologues represent maybe 20% total of the populace, max, yet they're responsible for 98% of the lies, bullshit and damage that we see. That's what troubles me the most, the fact that these people ultimately have so much influence while they're being so dishonest. It's no surprise at all that so many people tune it out, and that's a damn shame.

I don't know how this changes.

.

 

[Peterf]

I'm just here to vent my need to curse a lot

I'm only here to vent TheOldSchool's need to curse.

I'm just here to appreciate aaronleland's offer to support my need to curse

I think you fail to distinguish between 'need' and 'want'. You don't need to curse, you just enjoy it.

 

[Peterf]

I post to educate, but the liberal pinheads on this board are resistant to reason.

There will be one along in a minute to led you know that it most certainly is NOT "an establish fact" at all that FDR "increased the Depression". The facts are not nearly agreed to on this board, and they will not be...as long as opposing dispositions get to determine their own facts.

Liberals have their history and Conservatives have theirs...in this country, since Adams and the Federalists sought to undermine Free Speech with the Sedition Acts...and thus aroused Jefferson to run against him...and beat his ass. Jefferson greatly feared for the citizens if the "Central Government", as he called it, ever got control of all the power the Federalists wanted for it.

Today, the Federalists are winning. They call themselves Democrats now and they have mastered the art of buying votes with borrowed money...as the 17 trillion dollar debt will attest. They bribed the people and bought their votes with money that rightfully belongs to the next generation...and now they own the Presidency...unashamed and unindicted.

So. That's why I post. To educate, and that is a fair lesson I have just given. But, do you think these Massachusetts pinheads or the thugs in Chicago will learn?

Why Hell, no. You can't teach them. They will have Marx or else.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Excellent post Macaulay - and educational too.

There are examples, you know, of leftists who have grown out of their delusions.

 

[Peterf]

Some folks are paid shills. Some folks are here for kicks. Some want to improve their debating skills. Some just like to argue. Helps pass the time I guess.

I'm here to learn how Americans think. And if they are so insular and ignorant of the big wide world outside as they are reputed to be.

Although (sadly) America's influence is declining fast it's still a country worth making the effort to understand. Imo.

 

[Mac1958]

Some folks are paid shills. Some folks are here for kicks. Some want to improve their debating skills. Some just like to argue. Helps pass the time I guess.

I'm here to learn how Americans think. And if they are so insular and ignorant of the big wide world outside as they are reputed to be.

Although (sadly) America's influence is declining fast it's still a country worth making the effort to understand. Imo.

Interesting.

Whenever America ends its decline/decay, we'll look back and see clearly that it was a self-inflicted wound. And, of course, both ends of our political spectrum will point the finger at the other. What neither will understand is that they'll both be right.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If only all Americans had two hands so they could point in both directions like you! It must be a great feeling.

 

[dcraelin]

I post to educate, but the liberal pinheads on this board are resistant to reason.

There will be one along in a minute to led you know that it most certainly is NOT "an establish fact" at all that FDR "increased the Depression". The facts are not nearly agreed to on this board, and they will not be...as long as opposing dispositions get to determine their own facts.

So. That's why I post. To educate, and that is a fair lesson I have just given. But, do you think these Massachusetts pinheads or the thugs in Chicago will learn?

Why Hell, no. You can't teach them. They will have Marx or else.

Happy Thanksgiving.

calling people pinheads hardly helps in your supposed goal of education.

The one point in the OP I would disagree with is that Roosevelt prolonged the depression. Who knows? But he certainly wasn't as hard on the WallStreet crowd as he could have been and should have been.

Considering both parties have been bought and paid for since the 1890's at least, why spend time bashing the figureheads of each other's respective parties? For instance, it's an established fact that FDR was a corporatist who not only increased the depression here at home, but also benefited financially from corporate ties in Wall Street and plundering Germany's economy post WWI. Why do we idolize these people and pretend they gave a shit about the common people based off of lionized caricatures and propaganda?

Just saying, I'm new here and it seems the only thing people want to do is sling mud at the other guy's party of revolving door corporatists.

 

[MACAULAY]

I post to educate, but the liberal pinheads on this board are resistant to reason.

There will be one along in a minute to led you know that it most certainly is NOT "an establish fact" at all that FDR "increased the Depression". The facts are not nearly agreed to on this board, and they will not be...as long as opposing dispositions get to determine their own facts.

Liberals have their history and Conservatives have theirs...in this country, since Adams and the Federalists sought to undermine Free Speech with the Sedition Acts...and thus aroused Jefferson to run against him...and beat his ass. Jefferson greatly feared for the citizens if the "Central Government", as he called it, ever got control of all the power the Federalists wanted for it.

Today, the Federalists are winning. They call themselves Democrats now and they have mastered the art of buying votes with borrowed money...as the 17 trillion dollar debt will attest. They bribed the people and bought their votes with money that rightfully belongs to the next generation...and now they own the Presidency...unashamed and unindicted.

So. That's why I post. To educate, and that is a fair lesson I have just given. But, do you think these Massachusetts pinheads or the thugs in Chicago will learn?

Why Hell, no. You can't teach them. They will have Marx or else.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Excellent post Macaulay - and educational too.

There are examples, you know, of leftists who have grown out of their delusions.

..............................................

Thank you kindly sir. Right off, I can think of only two known personalities who have been Liberals and seen the light. They are Fox Commentators--Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Miller. Krauthammer saw the light through the force of a rare genius; and I think, for Miller, it was the Lunatic Muslims that opened his eyes partially...and then he was able to see the rest of the Truth.

Who do you know of as converts?

How much are you all in Sweden enjoying your Muslims?

How has you experiment in Socialism gone so far?

And from your next post, what are you discovering about Americans?

Are we that much different from the Swedes?

Thanks again, and also thanks for any answers to the questions. I am most interested in your thoughts from a whole different part of the world.

P.S. King Charles XII of Sweden is very possibly the most remarkable personality of the last 500 years or so.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

FDR purposely prevented Germany from surrendering years earlier with unacceptable terms of surrender.

 

[Iustitia]

FDR was a corporate raider. He used his Wall Street connections to scoop up cheap assets in Germany after WWI when Wall Street bankers and financiers used central planning to destroy the German mark devaluing their currency so properties could be bought cheap. His friends also profited off of rebuilding the German war machine after WWI. Even back home FDR had more corporate connections than anyone.

The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson—and I am not wholly excepting the Administration of W.W.* The country is going through a repetition of Jackson's fight with the Bank of the United States—only on a far bigger and broader basis. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to Col. Edward Mandell House, November 21, 1933, F.D.R.: His Personal Letters (New York: Duell, Sloan and Pearce 1950), p. 373.

To be specific, Franklin D. Roosevelt was, at one time or another during the 1920s, a vice president of the Fidelity & Deposit Company (120 Broadway); the president of an industry trade association, the American Construction Council (28 West 44th Street); a partner in Roosevelt & O'Connor (120 Broadway); a partner in Marvin, Hooker & Roosevelt (52 Wall Street); the president of United European Investors, Ltd. (7 Pine Street); a director of International Germanic Trust, Inc. (in the Standard Oil Building at 26 Broadway); a director of Consolidated Automatic Merchandising Corporation, a paper organization; a trustee of Georgia Warm Springs Foundation (120 Broadway); a director of American Investigation Corporation (37-39 Pine Street); a director of Sanitary Postage Service Corporation (285 Madison Avenue); the chairman of the General Trust Company (15 Broad Street); a director of Photomaton (551 Fifth Avenue); a director of Mantacal Oil Corporation (Rock Springs, Wyoming); and an incorporator of the Federal International Investment Trust.

That's a pretty fair list of directorships. It surely earns FDR the title of Wall Streeter par excellence. Most who work on "the Street" never achieve, and probably never even dream about achieving, a record of 11 corporate directorships, two law partnerships, and the presidency of a major trade association. In probing these directorships and their associated activities, we find that Roosevelt was a banker and a speculator, the two occupations he emphatically denounced in the 1932 Presidential election. Moreover, while banking and speculation have legitimate roles in a free society— indeed, they are essential for a sane monetary system—both can be abused. FDR's correspondence in the files deposited at the FDR Library in Hyde Park yields evidence—and evidence one reads with a heavy heart—that FDR was associated with the more unsavory elements of Wall Street banking and speculation, and one can arrive at no conclusion other than that FDR used the political arena, not the impartial market place, to make his profits.

I recommend the following books by Anthony C. Sutton-

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler
Wall Street and F.D.R.

If, that is, you care more about who really makes the decisions in the country and writes legislation rather than bickering over party labels.

 

[Darkwind]

~~Drops off spleen to outgass~~

Hey, I just don't have time to vent.

 

[FA_Q2]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

This is my theory on why there is such low voter turnout in this country. The people you speak of are the very vocal minority in this country. It's easy to become disillusioned with politics while watching so many of your own countrymen help perpetrate this silly game. I'm guessing a majority of the country could care less about a lot of the issues discussed on the 24 hour news channels. They have kids to feed and lives to lead. As long as they can lead those lives with minimal interference they could care less what Limbaugh and Bashir are bickering about that day.

Agree 1000%.

The partisan ideologues represent maybe 20% total of the populace, max, yet they're responsible for 98% of the lies, bullshit and damage that we see. That's what troubles me the most, the fact that these people ultimately have so much influence while they're being so dishonest. It's no surprise at all that so many people tune it out, and that's a damn shame.

I don't know how this changes.

.

It’s worse than that though. We rail on that 20 percent that you mention and their vitriol but I see the other 80 percent as even worse. At least those 20 percent bother to pay attention even if they are paying attention to lies and misinformation. The rest are completely apathetic. That attitude that allows one to not even know basic civics like what the three branches of government are and what their purpose is has destroyed this nation. I can count the number of people that I know who know what is going on in the government today at all on one hand. Democracy and/or Republics (or any form of government by the people for that matter) cannot survive an apathetic electorate. It has allowed the government to become corrupt and self-serving because the oversight is completely missing. A true travesty.

 

[Peterf]

Some folks are paid shills. Some folks are here for kicks. Some want to improve their debating skills. Some just like to argue. Helps pass the time I guess.

I'm here to learn how Americans think. And if they are so insular and ignorant of the big wide world outside as they are reputed to be.

Although (sadly) America's influence is declining fast it's still a country worth making the effort to understand. Imo.

Interesting.

Whenever America ends its decline/decay, we'll look back and see clearly that it was a self-inflicted wound. And, of course, both ends of our political spectrum will point the finger at the other. What neither will understand is that they'll both be right.


I think you are right. It seems to me that neither of the big parties has been brave enough to tell voters - too many of whom are ignorant and stupid - that the US has been living beyond its means for decades.

On these boards it is apparent than many still enjoy the illusion that the US is a rich country , when in fact it is worse than broke, it is very deeply in debt.

 

[Mac1958]

This is my theory on why there is such low voter turnout in this country. The people you speak of are the very vocal minority in this country. It's easy to become disillusioned with politics while watching so many of your own countrymen help perpetrate this silly game. I'm guessing a majority of the country could care less about a lot of the issues discussed on the 24 hour news channels. They have kids to feed and lives to lead. As long as they can lead those lives with minimal interference they could care less what Limbaugh and Bashir are bickering about that day.

Agree 1000%.

The partisan ideologues represent maybe 20% total of the populace, max, yet they're responsible for 98% of the lies, bullshit and damage that we see. That's what troubles me the most, the fact that these people ultimately have so much influence while they're being so dishonest. It's no surprise at all that so many people tune it out, and that's a damn shame.

I don't know how this changes.

.

It’s worse than that though. We rail on that 20 percent that you mention and their vitriol but I see the other 80 percent as even worse. At least those 20 percent bother to pay attention even if they are paying attention to lies and misinformation. The rest are completely apathetic. That attitude that allows one to not even know basic civics like what the three branches of government are and what their purpose is has destroyed this nation. I can count the number of people that I know who know what is going on in the government today at all on one hand. Democracy and/or Republics (or any form of government by the people for that matter) cannot survive an apathetic electorate. It has allowed the government to become corrupt and self-serving because the oversight is completely missing. A true travesty.

I think you are right. It seems to me that neither of the big parties has been brave enough to tell voters - too many of whom are ignorant and stupid - that the US has been living beyond its means for decades.

On these boards it is apparent than many still enjoy the illusion that the US is a rich country , when in fact it is worse than broke, it is very deeply in debt.

I'm one of those who think that virtually all of the major problems facing this once-great country are cultural at their foundation, a self-inflicted wound. Many of us have become lazy and think that we're owed something; many of us place a high priority on the "stuff" we own, even if we had to borrow to get it; many of us look at the constant lies and deceit of professional politicians and willingly choose to watch Kim Kardashian instead. And we continually find ways to lower standards, and they may be the biggest problem of all.

We borrow for damn near everything, so why do we care if our politicians do the same, if it's all just smoke and mirrors? Honey Boo Boo is getting a new dress, now THAT is important.

As I said, I don't know how this gets reversed.

.

 

[Peterf]

I post to educate, but the liberal pinheads on this board are resistant to reason.

There will be one along in a minute to led you know that it most certainly is NOT "an establish fact" at all that FDR "increased the Depression". The facts are not nearly agreed to on this board, and they will not be...as long as opposing dispositions get to determine their own facts.

Liberals have their history and Conservatives have theirs...in this country, since Adams and the Federalists sought to undermine Free Speech with the Sedition Acts...and thus aroused Jefferson to run against him...and beat his ass. Jefferson greatly feared for the citizens if the "Central Government", as he called it, ever got control of all the power the Federalists wanted for it.

Today, the Federalists are winning. They call themselves Democrats now and they have mastered the art of buying votes with borrowed money...as the 17 trillion dollar debt will attest. They bribed the people and bought their votes with money that rightfully belongs to the next generation...and now they own the Presidency...unashamed and unindicted.

So. That's why I post. To educate, and that is a fair lesson I have just given. But, do you think these Massachusetts pinheads or the thugs in Chicago will learn?

Why Hell, no. You can't teach them. They will have Marx or else.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Excellent post Macaulay - and educational too.

There are examples, you know, of leftists who have grown out of their delusions.

..............................................

Thank you kindly sir. Right off, I can think of only two known personalities who have been Liberals and seen the light. They are Fox Commentators--Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Miller. Krauthammer saw the light through the force of a rare genius; and I think, for Miller, it was the Lunatic Muslims that opened his eyes partially...and then he was able to see the rest of the Truth.

Who do you know of as converts?

How much are you all in Sweden enjoying your Muslims?

How has you experiment in Socialism gone so far?

And from your next post, what are you discovering about Americans?

Are we that much different from the Swedes?

Thanks again, and also thanks for any answers to the questions. I am most interested in your thoughts from a whole different part of the world.

P.S. King Charles XII of Sweden is very possibly the most remarkable personality of the last 500 years or so.

Janet Daley, US born, excellent conservative commentator in the (UK) Daily Telegraph was a member of a far let party in her youth.

The Swedish media is overwhelmingly liberal and peddle the pro-Islamic immigration line nonstop. The public dont really buy it but are too timid and conformist to do much. Only around 10% say they will vote (like me) for SverigeDemokraterna - the only party brave enough to speak out against immigration. Naturally we are called 'fascists'.

Sweden is 'wellfareist', not socialist. Very little of industry or commerce has ever been state owned. For the last 6 years Sweden has had a non-Socialist government.

Reading posts here suggests that the US still mixes religion and politics like nowhere else. In Europe being a strong conservative does NOT imply that one also some sort of fundermentalist Christian. It also suggests that too many Americans unquestioningly assume that any American is automatically 'the best in world'. And are unwilling to face up to economic reality.

I dislike proportional representation but I'm coming to think that America needs it. Your two party system is failing. Both parties are run for the benefit of a few insiders and long since stopped doing any sort of useful job for the citizens.

For at least a hundred years the USA has been, on balance, a force for good it the world. Its influence withering away and will be missed.

 

[Wildman]

Considering both parties have been bought and paid for since the 1890's at least, why spend time bashing the figureheads of each other's respective parties? For instance, it's an established fact that FDR was a corporatist who not only increased the depression here at home, but also benefited financially from corporate ties in Wall Street and plundering Germany's economy post WWI. Why do we idolize these people and pretend they gave a shit about the common people based off of lionized caricatures and propaganda?

Just saying, I'm new here and it seems the only thing people want to do is sling mud at the other guy's party of revolving door corporatists.

No politicians are my political heroes. Bill Maher and Jon Stewart happen to be my heroes. To me they represent logic and reason in the world of politics.

that statement proves you are a top notch IDIOT !!