Hero worship in politics

[MACAULAY]

Excellent post Macaulay - and educational too.

There are examples, you know, of leftists who have grown out of their delusions.

..............................................

Thank you kindly sir. Right off, I can think of only two known personalities who have been Liberals and seen the light. They are Fox Commentators--Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Miller. Krauthammer saw the light through the force of a rare genius; and I think, for Miller, it was the Lunatic Muslims that opened his eyes partially...and then he was able to see the rest of the Truth.

Who do you know of as converts?

How much are you all in Sweden enjoying your Muslims?

How has you experiment in Socialism gone so far?

And from your next post, what are you discovering about Americans?

Are we that much different from the Swedes?

Thanks again, and also thanks for any answers to the questions. I am most interested in your thoughts from a whole different part of the world.

P.S. King Charles XII of Sweden is very possibly the most remarkable personality of the last 500 years or so.

Janet Daley, US born, excellent conservative commentator in the (UK) Daily Telegraph was a member of a far let party in her youth.

The Swedish media is overwhelmingly liberal and peddle the pro-Islamic immigration line nonstop. The public dont really buy it but are too timid and conformist to do much. Only around 10% say they will vote (like me) for SverigeDemokraterna - the only party brave enough to speak out against immigration. Naturally we are called 'fascists'.

Sweden is 'wellfareist', not socialist. Very little of industry or commerce has ever been state owned. For the last 6 years Sweden has had a non-Socialist government.

Reading posts here suggests that the US still mixes religion and politics like nowhere else. In Europe being a strong conservative does NOT imply that one also some sort of fundermentalist Christian. It also suggests that too many Americans unquestioningly assume that any American is automatically 'the best in world'. And are unwilling to face up to economic reality.

I dislike proportional representation but I'm coming to think that America needs it. Your two party system is failing. Both parties are run for the benefit of a few insiders and long since stopped doing any sort of useful job for the citizens.

For at least a hundred years the USA has been, on balance, a force for good it the world. Its influence withering away and will be missed.

.............................................................

Thank you for your comments. They are interesting and they raise more questions, if you are willing to answer.

Why is the Swedish Media so overwhelmingly liberal? That is the case here too, so your take probably applies here as well. I believe it is simply a closed society. If you are not from a known liberal school like Harvard; if you have not somehow established your credentials as a liberal---your resume goes in to the garbage. But, that doesn't explain how it got so out of control to begin with.

I am surprised that religion/politics is where you notice the largest difference in Americans. I believe you are noticing some relatively minor skirmishes on fringe issues--on the frontier or "the gray area" where religious liberty conflicts with some other protected value. The serious issues were settled at the beginning by Jefferson with his "wall of separation between church and state". Lack of that is what got so many people killed in Europo (See for example Bloody Mary), and lack of it in the Muslim belief will yet get many killed.

It is true that Christians are under social assault by the godless Liberal as being morons for placing faith over reason. I used to do a little of that, but today I am disgusted that Islam has somehow become chic---the religion most to be protected even though it was founded on the writings composed by a murderous lunatic while living in a cave, and has progressed not at all since. And it is clear that this country became what it is (or was) based in large part on Christion ideals and Jeffersonian values.

In a country the size of Sweden, perhaps the central government must be the true power. But America is so vast, it necessarily contains different base cultures. It seems that the different people that settled different parts must cause that---and then different geography and climate must pull them apart even more.

The country is divided between the Heartland on the one hand and New England--where original settlers from London and East Anglia declared themselves "The Elect of God" and have ever since been telling everyone else what to do--based on their self-perceived moral and intellectual superiority. They are off God now and onto Big Government for the essence of their political nature is Control--They know what's best for us. They founded now rotting and dangerous cities like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland as they migrated west to the West Coast and massive amounts of money injected into these cesspools, and many more like them, provide them their power base.

The Heartland people basically believe in self-reliance and a less intrusive Federal power.

I don't see how the two can stay together more than another 3 to 5 decades.

How much does Sweden owe as a percentage of its GNP?

Thanks.

 

[Peterf]

..............................................

Thank you kindly sir. Right off, I can think of only two known personalities who have been Liberals and seen the light. They are Fox Commentators--Dr. Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Miller. Krauthammer saw the light through the force of a rare genius; and I think, for Miller, it was the Lunatic Muslims that opened his eyes partially...and then he was able to see the rest of the Truth.

Who do you know of as converts?

How much are you all in Sweden enjoying your Muslims?

How has you experiment in Socialism gone so far?

And from your next post, what are you discovering about Americans?

Are we that much different from the Swedes?

Thanks again, and also thanks for any answers to the questions. I am most interested in your thoughts from a whole different part of the world.

P.S. King Charles XII of Sweden is very possibly the most remarkable personality of the last 500 years or so.

Janet Daley, US born, excellent conservative commentator in the (UK) Daily Telegraph was a member of a far let party in her youth.

The Swedish media is overwhelmingly liberal and peddle the pro-Islamic immigration line nonstop. The public dont really buy it but are too timid and conformist to do much. Only around 10% say they will vote (like me) for SverigeDemokraterna - the only party brave enough to speak out against immigration. Naturally we are called 'fascists'.

Sweden is 'wellfareist', not socialist. Very little of industry or commerce has ever been state owned. For the last 6 years Sweden has had a non-Socialist government.

Reading posts here suggests that the US still mixes religion and politics like nowhere else. In Europe being a strong conservative does NOT imply that one also some sort of fundermentalist Christian. It also suggests that too many Americans unquestioningly assume that any American is automatically 'the best in world'. And are unwilling to face up to economic reality.

I dislike proportional representation but I'm coming to think that America needs it. Your two party system is failing. Both parties are run for the benefit of a few insiders and long since stopped doing any sort of useful job for the citizens.

For at least a hundred years the USA has been, on balance, a force for good it the world. Its influence withering away and will be missed.

.............................................................

Thank you for your comments. They are interesting and they raise more questions, if you are willing to answer.

Why is the Swedish Media so overwhelmingly liberal? That is the case here too, so your take probably applies here as well. I believe it is simply a closed society. If you are not from a known liberal school like Harvard; if you have not somehow established your credentials as a liberal---your resume goes in to the garbage. But, that doesn't explain how it got so out of control to begin with.

I am surprised that religion/politics is where you notice the largest difference in Americans. I believe you are noticing some relatively minor skirmishes on fringe issues--on the frontier or "the gray area" where religious liberty conflicts with some other protected value. The serious issues were settled at the beginning by Jefferson with his "wall of separation between church and state". Lack of that is what got so many people killed in Europo (See for example Bloody Mary), and lack of it in the Muslim belief will yet get many killed.

It is true that Christians are under social assault by the godless Liberal as being morons for placing faith over reason. I used to do a little of that, but today I am disgusted that Islam has somehow become chic---the religion most to be protected even though it was founded on the writings composed by a murderous lunatic while living in a cave, and has progressed not at all since. And it is clear that this country became what it is (or was) based in large part on Christion ideals and Jeffersonian values.

In a country the size of Sweden, perhaps the central government must be the true power. But America is so vast, it necessarily contains different base cultures. It seems that the different people that settled different parts must cause that---and then different geography and climate must pull them apart even more.

The country is divided between the Heartland on the one hand and New England--where original settlers from London and East Anglia declared themselves "The Elect of God" and have ever since been telling everyone else what to do--based on their self-perceived moral and intellectual superiority. They are off God now and onto Big Government for the essence of their political nature is Control--They know what's best for us. They founded now rotting and dangerous cities like Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland as they migrated west to the West Coast and massive amounts of money injected into these cesspools, and many more like them, provide them their power base.

The Heartland people basically believe in self-reliance and a less intrusive Federal power.

I don't see how the two can stay together more than another 3 to 5 decades.

How much does Sweden owe as a percentage of its GNP?

Thanks.

As a % of GDP Swden owes 35.2% - that's the easy question answered.

Why is the Swedish media liberal? Because Swedes are the most conformist of peoples and will do anything to avoid stepping out side the mainstream.

Ever since 1945 Swedes have excused their failure to play any part in defeating Naziism by elevating neutrality into some pinacle of moral excellence. They persuaded themslves of their moral superiority over the horrible 'super-powers'. As a token of their inherent goodness Sweden ostentatiously took in refugees. Not too bad at first; the numbers fleeing Pinochet's 'fascist dictatorship' in Chile were limited. But now, when enormous numbers are coming here from places like Somalia, it is STILL not done in polite circles to question national suicide by immigration.

Any journalist stepping outside the mad consensus has nowhere to go but the web.

You are right btw. Central government is all powerful in Sweden.

Thank you for your interesting points about New England.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I believe that Journalists are overwhelmingly liberal because they have access to information. Unlike politicians, who also have such access, their job does not depend on hiding the truth from others.

Real journalists......the ones who investigate and report and get paid to simply be accurate....are going to seem liberal to our insulated conservatives. Facts do that.

 

[Derideo_Te]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

I never have a problem admitting when I am wrong. I guess I must be the exception that proves your rule.

 

[Derideo_Te]

.

We've become very narcissistic in our politics, from the professional politicians to the message board commandos. Everyone has to be 100% right 100% of the time, everything is very binary, black & white, and everyone seems to fancy themselves online Limbaughs or Levins or Maddows or Bashirs. Cooperation is capitulation. Blatant intellectual dishonesty is acceptable in the pursuit of an agenda.

I'm pretty sure of one thing: If both silly ends of the political spectrum started concentrating on cleaning their own house, there wouldn't be any time for partisan bickering.

Not holding my breath, of course.

.

This is my theory on why there is such low voter turnout in this country. The people you speak of are the very vocal minority in this country. It's easy to become disillusioned with politics while watching so many of your own countrymen help perpetrate this silly game. I'm guessing a majority of the country could care less about a lot of the issues discussed on the 24 hour news channels. They have kids to feed and lives to lead. As long as they can lead those lives with minimal interference they could care less what Limbaugh and Bashir are bickering about that day.

Agree 1000%.

The partisan ideologues represent maybe 20% total of the populace, max, yet they're responsible for 98% of the lies, bullshit and damage that we see. That's what troubles me the most, the fact that these people ultimately have so much influence while they're being so dishonest. It's no surprise at all that so many people tune it out, and that's a damn shame.

I don't know how this changes.

.

Demographics and the internet are changing that already. Fact checking is now almost instantaneous and issues that would often never even reach people until they were over are now going viral in time to generate actions and reactions.

 

[FA_Q2]

Agree 1000%.

The partisan ideologues represent maybe 20% total of the populace, max, yet they're responsible for 98% of the lies, bullshit and damage that we see. That's what troubles me the most, the fact that these people ultimately have so much influence while they're being so dishonest. It's no surprise at all that so many people tune it out, and that's a damn shame.

I don't know how this changes.

.

It’s worse than that though. We rail on that 20 percent that you mention and their vitriol but I see the other 80 percent as even worse. At least those 20 percent bother to pay attention even if they are paying attention to lies and misinformation. The rest are completely apathetic. That attitude that allows one to not even know basic civics like what the three branches of government are and what their purpose is has destroyed this nation. I can count the number of people that I know who know what is going on in the government today at all on one hand. Democracy and/or Republics (or any form of government by the people for that matter) cannot survive an apathetic electorate. It has allowed the government to become corrupt and self-serving because the oversight is completely missing. A true travesty.

I think you are right. It seems to me that neither of the big parties has been brave enough to tell voters - too many of whom are ignorant and stupid - that the US has been living beyond its means for decades.

On these boards it is apparent than many still enjoy the illusion that the US is a rich country , when in fact it is worse than broke, it is very deeply in debt.

I'm one of those who think that virtually all of the major problems facing this once-great country are cultural at their foundation, a self-inflicted wound. Many of us have become lazy and think that we're owed something; many of us place a high priority on the "stuff" we own, even if we had to borrow to get it; many of us look at the constant lies and deceit of professional politicians and willingly choose to watch Kim Kardashian instead. And we continually find ways to lower standards, and they may be the biggest problem of all.

We borrow for damn near everything, so why do we care if our politicians do the same, if it's all just smoke and mirrors? Honey Boo Boo is getting a new dress, now THAT is important.

As I said, I don't know how this gets reversed.

.

Unfortunately, I think I do know how this gets reversed but it is not good. It seems that in times of real hardship people actually pay attention. This is seen all over the world when things get really tough in emerging democracies you find that the voter turnout is immense. Often times it is in the 90 percent range. Those people tend to also face hardships voting and are not doing so lightly. They are paying attention and gathering information because they have to or they face real problems. Problems like death.

In America, people don’t care anymore precisely because we have it so damn good. Even now in such economic hard times, no one is really facing the possibility of starvation. Essentially no one is forced to sleep on the street or in the cold. We have it damn good in our worst moments not to mention when things are going well. I fear that the current trend will continue until we hit the tipping point and real problems hit the majority of the population. When people really do have to worry about family members starving to death and such is not an uncommon sight. Unfortunately, that moment comes far too late and mountains of suffering follow before we can regain any semblance of prosperous times again. I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. History repeats itself because we, as a people, have not really changed and it will continue to repeat itself for as long as the human race endures.

 

[FA_Q2]

Sweden is 'wellfareist', not socialist. Very little of industry or commerce has ever been state owned. For the last 6 years Sweden has had a non-Socialist government.

Most on these boards do not understand what socialism is to the point that statement would mean anything. Too many, what you are stating is essentially the same.

I can’t say that it really matters to me though. The shades of political systems are rather meaningless anymore considering that there is no real purist government in socialism, communism, capitalism or any other ‘ism in the world. Those terms have lost their meaning to a bunch of economies that have incorporated pieces of many systems over the years.

Reading posts here suggests that the US still mixes religion and politics like nowhere else. In Europe being a strong conservative does NOT imply that one also some sort of fundermentalist Christian. It also suggests that too many Americans unquestioningly assume that any American is automatically 'the best in world'. And are unwilling to face up to economic reality.

That is only because you are seeing the fringe elements on the sides. While individual religion plays a big part in a politician’s carrier (not surprising when 80 percent of Americans identify as Christian) the reality is that religion plays almost no part in the legal process or the laws that are passed. Most of the ‘fundamentalist’ veins that you see in political brinksmanship are nothing more than a politician giving lip service to the moral majority – the block of voters here that vote for faith based candidates.

 

[FA_Q2]

I believe that Journalists are overwhelmingly liberal because they have access to information. Unlike politicians, who also have such access, their job does not depend on hiding the truth from others.

Real journalists......the ones who investigate and report and get paid to simply be accurate....are going to seem liberal to our insulated conservatives. Facts do that.

That relies on the supposition that ‘truth’ is somehow weighted to the left. That is, obviously, a completely partisan and asinine viewpoint but not surprising coming from someone such as yourself.

 

[francoHFW]

Dems are less corporatist and more helpful to Pub victims- see para.1- Pubs and tories are the worst capitalists going in the modern world- and biggest liars and thieves....

 

[LoneLaugher]

I believe that Journalists are overwhelmingly liberal because they have access to information. Unlike politicians, who also have such access, their job does not depend on hiding the truth from others.

Real journalists......the ones who investigate and report and get paid to simply be accurate....are going to seem liberal to our insulated conservatives. Facts do that.

That relies on the supposition that ‘truth’ is somehow weighted to the left. That is, obviously, a completely partisan and asinine viewpoint but not surprising coming from someone such as yourself.

No it does not rely on that supposition. You should read what I said again.

It relies on my belief that one who knows the truth ( has the facts )is more likely to lean left. The truth isn't weighted....it is simply the truth.

You may not agree, but please try to disagree while grasping the point.

 

[Mac1958]

In America, people don’t care anymore precisely because we have it so damn good.

Bingo.

In a nutshell, that's it.

.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Some folks are paid shills. Some folks are here for kicks. Some want to improve their debating skills. Some just like to argue. Helps pass the time I guess.

I dunno about paid shills but I agree with your post.

 

[Moonglow]

I'm just here to vent my need to curse a lot

I'm only here to vent TheOldSchool's need to curse.

I'm just here to appreciate aaronleland's offer to support my need to curse

Why all this girl scout memeing and get to cusin'. Damn it!