High Deductibles Force Many to Opt Out of Obamacare

[Sun Devil 92]

They need the freedom to say 'no' to insurance that isn't a worthwhile purchase.

They not only have the freedom to say "Ima pay the penalty and get nothing - take that, Obama!" they have the freedom that they always had to find an insurance plan that suits their needs and that, with subsidies, more working people can afford.

The insurance industry has taken control of its market by using government to dictate which products they can sell. And which we must buy. That alleviates them of the need to compete via innovation. In a free market, these undesirable plans wouldn't sell, and the insurance companies would be forced to come up with something viable.

The insurance industry took control of the market when the for-profit insurers entered that market over 30 years ago. That you're just discovering this is no one else's fault.

This is crap.

Subsidies don't make up the difference.

And spare me the "you are not looking hard enough" garbage.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Why don't you address the points I'm making?

I am. You just don't like the answers.

Not true. You completely ignore the fact that ACA takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth it to them. Without that, we're subject to the collusion of Congress and the insurance lobby. Obama sold us out.

While I don't like Obummercare, I don't think your statement is acccurate.

We still have the right to say no. We just do it at a penalty.

That makes no sense. One could make the same statement about any crime. "You have the right to murder your neighbor, you just do it at a penalty." Would you agree with that claim as well?

You can still say no. You pay a penalty if you do that.

Your analogy is a bit over the top.

It's more like jaywalking (which isn't a right....I know).

In this case you get to make a choice (you don't have the right to refuse to participate...which is totally wrong).

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Recapping: If you opt for a bronze plan (low premiums), it will have a high deductible. If your health status indicates you'll need frequent doctor visits, a silver plan would be preferable.

Prior to the PPACA, premiums for individual and/or family plans (as opposed to employer-provided group plans) were considerably higher. Employer plans created a kind of dependency. Employees didn't have to read the fine print, realize that the plan came up for renewal annually, or have any idea what a plan would have cost them without the employers' contribution. This is one reason so many of them are outraged.

Another is not recognizing the reasons why premiums are higher in some states than in others. If your state has not set up its own exchange and accepted the Medicaid tie-in, that's the responsibility of your state legislators. Ask yourself why they'd penalize their citizens. Then ask them the same question.

As for the Jerseyite quoted in the OP, there's a strong likelihood that prior to the PPACA he'd have been denied any kind of coverage because his knee pain would be classified as a preexisting condition.

Please tell me how these are LOW premiums ?

3000/year ?

 

[Arianrhod]

Subsidies don't make up the difference.

The difference in what?

Subsidies are predicated on each individual consumer's specific situation.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Subsidies don't make up the difference.

The difference in what?

Subsidies are predicated on each individual consumer's specific situation.

In the cases I am aware of...the difference between what was had and what is now offered (the closest thing).

Translation: I have children who I help with insurance. I pay more now than what I used to and I don't get any better coverage.

 

[dblack]

Why don't you address the points I'm making?

I am. You just don't like the answers.

Not true. You completely ignore the fact that ACA takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth it to them. Without that, we're subject to the collusion of Congress and the insurance lobby. Obama sold us out.

While I don't like Obummercare, I don't think your statement is acccurate.

We still have the right to say no. We just do it at a penalty.

That makes no sense. One could make the same statement about any crime. "You have the right to murder your neighbor, you just do it at a penalty." Would you agree with that claim as well?

You can still say no. You pay a penalty if you do that.

Your analogy is a bit over the top.

It's more like jaywalking (which isn't a right....I know).

Exactly. Jaywalking is not a right. Which is why we can pass laws infringing on it. ACA's mandate presumes that the freedom to refuse to buy something you don't want isn't a right. That's exactly the argument. If it's not a right, that means government can be used to mandate the purchase of anything with enough lobbying clout behind it.

 

[Arianrhod]

Subsidies don't make up the difference.

The difference in what?

Subsidies are predicated on each individual consumer's specific situation.

In the cases I am aware of...the difference between what was had and what is now offered (the closest thing).

Translation: I have children who I help with insurance. I pay more now than what I used to and I don't get any better coverage.

Okay, so that's one instance. It's not true for everyone. Premiums are based on at least the following six factors:

Subsidy Calculator Widget

And they will vary by insurer, but a calculator like ^this is where you can begin.

For example, if you plug in U.S. average, an income of 100K, two adults aged 30 and 28, two kids, nonsmokers, you get a premium of $817 a month for a silver plan.

Altering just one variable (an income of 50K instead of 100K), you get a premium of $541 a month for the same plan.

Change any of the other variables and you'll get different answers.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Subsidies don't make up the difference.

The difference in what?

Subsidies are predicated on each individual consumer's specific situation.

In the cases I am aware of...the difference between what was had and what is now offered (the closest thing).

Translation: I have children who I help with insurance. I pay more now than what I used to and I don't get any better coverage.

Okay, so that's one instance. It's not true for everyone. Premiums are based on at least the following six factors:

Subsidy Calculator Widget

And they will vary by insurer, but a calculator like ^this is where you can begin.

For example, if you plug in U.S. average, an income of 100K, two adults aged 30 and 28, two kids, nonsmokers, you get a premium of $817 a month for a silver plan.

Altering just one variable (an income of 50K instead of 100K), you get a premium of $541 a month for the same plan.

Change any of the other variables and you'll get different answers.

And you won't get an answer that looks like what it used to. It will be higher.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/lif...town-noshville-close-after-19-years/76933098/

 

[Arianrhod]

And you won't get an answer that looks like what it used to. It will be higher.

For whom?

 

[Arianrhod]

http://www.tennessean.com/story/lif...town-noshville-close-after-19-years/76933098/

Tennessee is one of the states that refused to set up its own health exchange:

The restaurant owner can blame his state legislators.

I also wonder if he's aware that the mandate doesn't apply to businesses with <50 employees?

 

[dblack]

You completely ignore the fact that ACA takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth it to them.

Because it isn't true, no matter how many times you post it in however-many threads.

Which part of it do you deny? That it takes away our right to refuse to buy insurance? Or that it's not an important right to begin with?

... those pesky crickets ...

 

[Arianrhod]

Summing up, then, this thread has gone from: “Deductibles are going up under Obamacare…”

(Actually, the deductible depends on (A) the individual insurer and (B) whether or not the consumer chooses a bronze or silver plan.)

To: “Premiums will be higher under Obamacare…”

(Actually, premiums depend on (A) the individual insurer and (B) the consumer’s state, income, age, smoking status, and number of family members insured.)

To: “Never mind about individuals! Let’s talk about this restaurant owner who blames Obamacare for his decision to close his restaurant.”

Along with the usual wailing “WE’RE BEING FORCED TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!11”

Quite instructive…

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Summing up, then, this thread has gone from: “Deductibles are going up under Obamacare…”

(Actually, the deductible depends on (A) the individual insurer and (B) whether or not the consumer chooses a bronze or silver plan.)

To: “Premiums will be higher under Obamacare…”

(Actually, premiums depend on (A) the individual insurer and (B) the consumer’s state, income, age, smoking status, and number of family members insured.)

To: “Never mind about individuals! Let’s talk about this restaurant owner who blames Obamacare for his decision to close his restaurant.”

Along with the usual wailing “WE’RE BEING FORCED TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!11”

Quite instructive…

Yep.....no way Obamacare can hurt business.

That is clearly in the fairy tale world of the left.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Premiums are higher under Obamacare.

Why didn't they just leave things alone and offer subsidies in the previous arrangement ?

Because they needed to force healthy people into the system and make them pay more so they can cover the rest.

It's that simple.

 

[Arianrhod]

Yep.....no way Obamacare can hurt business.

Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from the mandate.

State legislators who refused to set up state exchanges deprived many of their citizens of numerous options for affordable health insurance. Some of those state legislators are changing their minds.

 

[Arianrhod]

Premiums are higher under Obamacare.

Repeating it doesn't make it so. If you can show that every single insured in America has seen their premiums go up, I'd invite you to do so.

 

[Greenbeard]

Premiums are higher under Obamacare.

Why didn't they just leave things alone and offer subsidies in the previous arrangement ?

...because sick people were frozen out of care. That's what the "previous arrangement" was. Obviously treating people costs more than not treating people.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Premiums are higher under Obamacare.

Why didn't they just leave things alone and offer subsidies in the previous arrangement ?

...because sick people were frozen out of care. That's what the "previous arrangement" was. Obviously treating people costs more than not treating people.

If you had subsidized them, you wouldn't have had to screw the whole system up.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You completely ignore the fact that ACA takes away the most important right a consumer has - the right to say "no thanks" to a product or service that isn't worth it to them.

Because it isn't true, no matter how many times you post it in however-many threads.

Which part of it do you deny? That it takes away our right to refuse to buy insurance? Or that it's not an important right to begin with?

... those pesky crickets ...

Funny how the lecture on just saying so does not make it so keeps coming from someone who just keeps saying so.