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Hillary and Margaret Sanger

He must since he opposes Sanger's work.


you are delusional. Maybe a visit to a shrink is in order for you.

So now after all this you wish to admit that you find Sanger's work valuable and praiseworthy?

omg. Look at that!


What? have you completely lost what little mind you had?

You are desperately trying to avoid stating your position on the relevant issues. That's how you lose this debate.


access to BC is good, access to abortion on demand aimed at limiting the birth rate of those classified as "undesirable" is not. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
Access to BC is good. So you DO support Sanger. That's what she was all about.
 
The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Notice part d: (d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.\

Her second step: The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct.

Again, after the beginning of WWII and Hitler, Progressives found their ideas are what Hilter was implementing to a much higher degree.
 
Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

Sanger was a self proclaimed negative eugenist, that means she was for forced sterilization. Pretty simple. After the start of WWII, she and many of the eugenists went silent.

Pretty simple her own words say she was against forced sterilization.

Here- let me quote her again:

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards.

Until you can come up with a quote of her saying she was for forced sterilization you are just rumor mongering.

Probably because you object to her advocating on behalf of women's rights.

Again, it was quoted after WWII, a huge difference. Before WWII, she and other Progressive Eugenicist were pushing for states to adopt compulsory sterilization. Been know for a long time and recently the push has been to cover up the truth of T. Roosevelt, W. Wilson, Carnegie and Sanger's views.

Pretty simple her own words say she was against forced sterilization.

Here- let me quote her again:

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards.

Until you can come up with a quote of her saying she was for forced sterilization you are just rumor mongering.

Probably because you object to her advocating on behalf of women's rights
 
The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Notice part d: (d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.\

Her second step: The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct..

Why are you afraid to quote her?

(d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.


(e) to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feeble-minded parents, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.


Note: voluntarily consent
 
Your quote isn't there.


I didn't get the wording exactly right, but her message is clear, Planned parenthood was designed to reduce the black birth rate by killing unborn black babies.

Birth control does not kill babies. Are you calling legal birth control racist now?

lol


WTF is wrong with you? birth control and abortion are two completely different things.

Sanger opposed abortion. Your references are to birth control. Is birth control racist?

but she favored forced sterilization

When did she favor that?
 
Birth control would save mothers, not only from undergoing the useless agony (year after year) of fruitless pregnancies, but also from the horrible spectacle of countless little coffins made necessary by a forced or involuntary maternity.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Please explain your objection to Margaret Sanger's opinion.
 
Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

Sanger was a self proclaimed negative eugenist, that means she was for forced sterilization. Pretty simple. After the start of WWII, she and many of the eugenists went silent.

Pretty simple her own words say she was against forced sterilization.

Here- let me quote her again:

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards.

Until you can come up with a quote of her saying she was for forced sterilization you are just rumor mongering.

Probably because you object to her advocating on behalf of women's rights.

Again, it was quoted after WWII, a huge difference. Before WWII, she and other Progressive Eugenicist were pushing for states to adopt compulsory sterilization. Been know for a long time and recently the push has been to cover up the truth of T. Roosevelt, W. Wilson, Carnegie and Sanger's views.
1919
We who advocate Birth Control, on the other hand, lay all our emphasis upon stopping not only the reproduction of the unfit but upon stopping all reproduction when there is not economic means of providing proper care for those who are born in health. The eugenist also believes that a woman should bear as many healthy children as possible as a duty to the state. We hold that the world is already over-populated. Eugenists imply or insist that a woman's first duty is to the state; we contend that her duty to herself is her duty to the state.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition
 
Damn, Boy Georgio is still at it. Insists Sanger said something but is unable to find it.
 
How about the "financially least equipped".

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.
 
I doubt that any of the people here attacking Sanger cares about a real discussion, but 'sterilization' is just another word for vasectomies and tubal ligations- sterilization is not a bad word- nor is sterilization bad.

There are examples of sterilization being abused - both forced sterilization and sterilization under false pretenses- and I think we can all generally agree that those are wrong.

Sanger advocated for voluntary sterlization as another way to protect women and their living children. She did advocate for the sterilization of the 'feeble minded' and 'insane' believing that their condition made them impossible to care for children- and syphilitics- an incurable disease at the time which would be transmitted to babies.

But millions of Americans have voluntarily used the very kind of sterilization that Sanger advocated for in order to control their own reproduction.
 
So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.

Where did I lie?
 
The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Notice part d: (d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.\

Her second step: The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct..

Why are you afraid to quote her?

(d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.


(e) to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feeble-minded parents, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.


Note: voluntarily consent

d. Says nothing about voluntary.

You also are now saying she wasn't a negative eugenist? She said she was one.
 
The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Notice part d: (d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.\

Her second step: The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct..

Why are you afraid to quote her?

(d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.


(e) to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feeble-minded parents, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.


Note: voluntarily consent

d. Says nothing about voluntary.

You also are now saying she wasn't a negative eugenist? She said she was one.

I neither know what you think a 'negative eugenist' is- nor do I care.

You have made claims about Margaret Sanger- claims you have so far been totally unable to back up.

I have pointed out actual quotes by Margaret Sanger noting:
- her commitment to women's health
- that she specifically wrote she believe sterlization should be voluntary

, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.

Do you really want to argue about the definition of 'voluntary' versus 'voluntarily'?

Margaret Sanger was praised by both Clinton- and Martin Luther King Jr.

Looking at what she accomplished for women, I am not surprised.
 
I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.

Where did I lie?

When you said that Sanger was for sterilizing blacks and then unable to back up your claim.

Dude, I'm really bored with you, put up or shut up, actually at this point it doesn't matter.
 
The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

Notice part d: (d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.\

Her second step: The second step would be to take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope-fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection and segregate on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct..

Why are you afraid to quote her?

(d) apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization, and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.


(e) to insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feeble-minded parents, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.


Note: voluntarily consent

d. Says nothing about voluntary.

You also are now saying she wasn't a negative eugenist? She said she was one.

I neither know what you think a 'negative eugenist' is- nor do I care.

You have made claims about Margaret Sanger- claims you have so far been totally unable to back up.

I have pointed out actual quotes by Margaret Sanger noting:
- her commitment to women's health
- that she specifically wrote she believe sterlization should be voluntary

, the government would pension all persons with transmissible disease who voluntarily consent to sterilization.

Do you really want to argue about the definition of 'voluntary' versus 'voluntarily'?

Margaret Sanger was praised by both Clinton- and Martin Luther King Jr.

Looking at what she accomplished for women, I am not surprised.

If you knew what a negative eugenist is, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

In her works; The Pivot of Civilization, she wrote this:
The emergency problem of segregation and sterilization must be faced immediately. Every feeble-minded girl or woman of the hereditary type, especially of the moron class, should be segregated during the reproductive period. Otherwise, she is almost certain to bear imbecile children, who in turn are just as certain to breed other defectives. The male defectives are no less dangerous. Segregation carried out for one or two generations would give us only partial control of the problem. Moreover, when we realize that each feeble-minded person is a potential source of an endless progeny of defect, we prefer the policy of immediate sterilization, of making sure that parenthood is absolutely prohibited to the feeble-minded.
 
Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.

Where did I lie?

When you said that Sanger was for sterilizing blacks and then unable to back up your claim.

Dude, I'm really bored with you, put up or shut up, actually at this point it doesn't matter.

From her works; The Pivot of Civilization

The emergency problem of segregation and sterilization must be faced immediately. Every feeble-minded girl or woman of the hereditary type, especially of the moron class, should be segregated during the reproductive period. Otherwise, she is almost certain to bear imbecile children, who in turn are just as certain to breed other defectives. The male defectives are no less dangerous. Segregation carried out for one or two generations would give us only partial control of the problem. Moreover, when we realize that each feeble-minded person is a potential source of an endless progeny of defect, we prefer the policy of immediate sterilization, of making sure that parenthood is absolutely prohibited to the feeble-minded.
 
Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.

Where did I lie?

When you said that Sanger was for sterilizing blacks and then unable to back up your claim.

Dude, I'm really bored with you, put up or shut up, actually at this point it doesn't matter.

From her works; The Pivot of Civilization

The emergency problem of segregation and sterilization must be faced immediately. Every feeble-minded girl or woman of the hereditary type, especially of the moron class, should be segregated during the reproductive period. Otherwise, she is almost certain to bear imbecile children, who in turn are just as certain to breed other defectives. The male defectives are no less dangerous. Segregation carried out for one or two generations would give us only partial control of the problem. Moreover, when we realize that each feeble-minded person is a potential source of an endless progeny of defect, we prefer the policy of immediate sterilization, of making sure that parenthood is absolutely prohibited to the feeble-minded.

So, you saw the word segregation and assumed she was talking about black people? I do believe she was for sterilizing (not forced though) retards, I can see why you're upset.
 
You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

You didn't say just blacks and nobody said you only said blacks. But you still said Sanger wanted forced sterilization of blacks. And you say you're the one not playing games? Ha, just another lie.

Where did I lie?

When you said that Sanger was for sterilizing blacks and then unable to back up your claim.

Dude, I'm really bored with you, put up or shut up, actually at this point it doesn't matter.

From her works; The Pivot of Civilization

The emergency problem of segregation and sterilization must be faced immediately. Every feeble-minded girl or woman of the hereditary type, especially of the moron class, should be segregated during the reproductive period. Otherwise, she is almost certain to bear imbecile children, who in turn are just as certain to breed other defectives. The male defectives are no less dangerous. Segregation carried out for one or two generations would give us only partial control of the problem. Moreover, when we realize that each feeble-minded person is a potential source of an endless progeny of defect, we prefer the policy of immediate sterilization, of making sure that parenthood is absolutely prohibited to the feeble-minded.

So, you saw the word segregation and assumed she was talking about black people? I do believe she was for sterilizing (not forced though) retards, I can see why you're upset.

I'm not addressing just blacks asshole, I am showing that she endorsed a policy of immediate sterilization of a group or class of people and keeping them segregated from the general population. I'm sorry you can't figure that out.

Please tell me you aren't as dense as you are pretending to be.
 
Article 8. Feeble-minded persons, habitual congenital criminals, those afflicted with inheritable disease, and others found biologically unfit by authorities qualified to judge should be sterilized or, in cases of doubt, should be so isolated as to prevent the perpetuation of their afflictions by breeding. I do not pretend in the above suggestions to have arrived at the formulation of a workable baby code, but my puzzling over the problem has convinced me that America needs such a code. I should be very much interested in hearing the suggestions of others.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition
 

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