Hillary and Margaret Sanger

[Rambunctious]

Well, that sticks to the topic at hand.

Trump wins!!!!!! Hillary loses again...

 

[Rambunctious]

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[Rambunctious]

Infostormer.Com | White Bikers Gather To Support And Protect Donald Trump

 

[Juicin]

Right, great woman, the ultimate racist.

So anyone who uses birth control or wants it to be legal and available is a racist?

Do you know what eugenics is son?

lol

Yes she was a racist, and a terrible human. You should always be suspicious of people trying to pass out birth control. It's not an action that historically has been with benevolent intentions.

Not saying poor women shouldn't be provided it for free, but if we went back to an age where children were an economic boon giving out birth control to poor women would be obviously suspect.

I know that birth control should be legal and easily available.

Why don't you agree?

When Margaret Sanger was alive children were a boon almost universally, they were good for family mobility. The only reason to limit births would be to literally attempt to cull the population.

In an age where children aren't an economic boon it's not really clear where the correct moral stance should be. I'm not convinced promoting preventing births are a good idea though.

Really? Poor people having big families was a good thing? When was that?

From the beginning of human history until a couple generations ago.

My grandfather was a boon for my great grandfather

And children still are a boon in many places in the world. Just not in a developed economy. That's why birth rates drop to nothing once you get off the farm/village

 

[Papageorgio]

This was after WWII, before eugenics was so unpopular with its similarity to Hitler's superior race, which he took from progressives of the United States, her views were quite different. Many progressives modified their stand with the advent of WWII and Hitler.

Sanger, forced sterilization of minorities, go hun

Who are the least equipped? I know some very rich people that are not equipped to have children.

What is easy access to birth control. Condoms machines on every street corner?

Financially for one. Where is the forced sterilization? Where did Sanger advocate for sterilizing minorities?

Financially is least equipped?

How about the "financially least equipped".

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

 

[Papageorgio]

What? have you completely lost what little mind you had?

You are desperately trying to avoid stating your position on the relevant issues. That's how you lose this debate.

What does his position have to do with the subject? The thread is about Clinton and her view of Sanger.

Hillary supports birth control being legal.

Do you wish to disagree with that?

What does my opinion on birth control have to do with Hillary's view of Sanger, you aren't making much sense.

Because you either agree with Sanger on the issue of birth control or you don't.

How does that affect Hillary's views on Sanger?

 

[Papageorgio]

There you go, a stupid conclusion based on nothing but a false assumption.

Just because you disagree with a person's philosophy on a solving problem doesn't mean you don't think there is a problem.

Is like saying drug addicts shouldn't be locked up, it doesn't mean you are for drug abuse or if you are not against the death penalty you are for murder.

Just because you are against eugenics, doesn't mean you think the poor should have large families. Sanger was a negative eugenist. She believed and applauded state panels the enforced compulsory sterilization. She believed in population control through the weak, the poor, the retarded and so on. Not agreeing with her doesn't mean you think the weak, the poor and the retarded need to procreate and have large families.

Margaret Sanger believed that individuals should control their own fertility and that the poor and weak should be provided access to birth control.
She didn't 'applaud compulsory sterilization- she advocated voluntarily sterilization for those who desired it

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

This was after WWII, before eugenics was so unpopular with its similarity to Hitler's superior race, which he took from progressives of the United States, her views were quite different. Many progressives modified their stand with the advent of WWII and Hitler.

Sanger, forced sterilization of minorities, go hun

There you go, a stupid conclusion based on nothing but a false assumption.

Just because you disagree with a person's philosophy on a solving problem doesn't mean you don't think there is a problem.

Is like saying drug addicts shouldn't be locked up, it doesn't mean you are for drug abuse or if you are not against the death penalty you are for murder.

Just because you are against eugenics, doesn't mean you think the poor should have large families. Sanger was a negative eugenist. She believed and applauded state panels the enforced compulsory sterilization. She believed in population control through the weak, the poor, the retarded and so on. Not agreeing with her doesn't mean you think the weak, the poor and the retarded need to procreate and have large families.

Are you for or against people who are least equipped to having many kids having easy access to birth control?

Who are the least equipped? I know some very rich people that are not equipped to have children.

What is easy access to birth control. Condoms machines on every street corner?

Financially for one. Where is the forced sterilization? Where did Sanger advocate for sterilizing minorities?

Financially is least equipped?

What's the merit of poor people having 3 4 5 8 10 children,
when half or more of them 'just happened' accidentally>?

Got a link to that or is that your opinion?

 

[Rambunctious]

The Hilldabeast got her ass handed to her tonight. What is Hillary Clinton? a republican wet dream of a presidential candidate.

 

[HappyJoy]

Sanger, forced sterilization of minorities, go hun
Financially for one. Where is the forced sterilization? Where did Sanger advocate for sterilizing minorities?

Financially is least equipped?

How about the "financially least equipped".

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

 

[Papageorgio]

Financially is least equipped?

How about the "financially least equipped".

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people.

Again, if you didn't want to know what I thought, then why ask. You and NY really don't care about opinions of mine, you want to play games and move around.

Who said birth control wasn't easy access, affordable or legal? You jump from one damn topic to the next.

Nutters such as yourself don't want to discuss anything, they want conversations and label others. Sad, it really is.

 

[Redfish]

What does that have to do with anything redfish posted? He never stated that.

He must since he opposes Sanger's work.

you are delusional. Maybe a visit to a shrink is in order for you.

So now after all this you wish to admit that you find Sanger's work valuable and praiseworthy?

omg. Look at that!

What? have you completely lost what little mind you had?

You are desperately trying to avoid stating your position on the relevant issues. That's how you lose this debate.

access to BC is good, access to abortion on demand aimed at limiting the birth rate of those classified as "undesirable" is not. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

[Syriusly]

So.....Margaret Sanger was more racist than...any 50 KKK members combined.

And Hillary praises her.

Black folks....really? Just...really? Yall really are gonna vote for this bitch??
]

Hillary Clinton and Martin Luther King Jr. both praised Sanger

'Black folks' know this.

Bitter old white dudes keep trying to tell the 'Black folks' that the bittler old white dudes know better than the "Black folk" do

 

[Syriusly]

Sanger was way ahead of her time in understanding the significance of family planning

Great woman

Right, great woman, the ultimate racist.

So anyone who uses birth control or wants it to be legal and available is a racist?

Do you know what eugenics is son?

lol

Yes she was a racist, and a terrible human. You should always be suspicious of people trying to pass out birth control. It's not an action that historically has been with benevolent intentions.

Not saying poor women shouldn't be provided it for free, but if we went back to an age where children were an economic boon giving out birth control to poor women would be obviously suspect.

I know that birth control should be legal and easily available.

Why don't you agree?

When Margaret Sanger was alive children were a boon almost universally, they were good for family mobility. The only reason to limit births would be to literally attempt to cull the population.
.

Not for family mobility- families with more children didn't suddenly go from poor to middle class- they usually stayed poor.

More children was mainly a boon for the father- and often killed the mother- who had no way to limit the number of children she had- not only did she not have access to contraceptives, she also had few rights within marriage to deny her husband- there was no concept of 'marital rape'

 

[Syriusly]

He must since he opposes Sanger's work.

you are delusional. Maybe a visit to a shrink is in order for you.

So now after all this you wish to admit that you find Sanger's work valuable and praiseworthy?

omg. Look at that!

What? have you completely lost what little mind you had?

You are desperately trying to avoid stating your position on the relevant issues. That's how you lose this debate.

access to BC is good, access to abortion on demand aimed at limiting the birth rate of those classified as "undesirable" is not. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Then why are you attacking Sanger?

She advocated birth control for women.

She didn't advocate for abortion.

 

[Syriusly]

How about the "financially least equipped".

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

 

[Papageorgio]

So people that have money can have as many as they want and not raise them properly. I think they are least equipped, wouldn't they be?

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

Sanger was a self proclaimed negative eugenist, that means she was for forced sterilization. Pretty simple. After the start of WWII, she and many of the eugenists went silent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jack4jill]

you are delusional. Maybe a visit to a shrink is in order for you.

So now after all this you wish to admit that you find Sanger's work valuable and praiseworthy?

omg. Look at that!

What? have you completely lost what little mind you had?

You are desperately trying to avoid stating your position on the relevant issues. That's how you lose this debate.

access to BC is good, access to abortion on demand aimed at limiting the birth rate of those classified as "undesirable" is not. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

Then why are you attacking Sanger?

She advocated birth control for women.

She didn't advocate for abortion.

He thinks she wanted to eliminate whites, she gave them birth control.

 

[Syriusly]

I think anyone can have as many children as they want regardless of their finances.

I guess you no longer believe Sanger wanted to sterilize minorities.

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

Sanger was a self proclaimed negative eugenist, that means she was for forced sterilization. Pretty simple. After the start of WWII, she and many of the eugenists went silent.

Pretty simple her own words say she was against forced sterilization.

Here- let me quote her again:

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards.

Until you can come up with a quote of her saying she was for forced sterilization you are just rumor mongering.

Probably because you object to her advocating on behalf of women's rights.

 

[Papageorgio]

Really? That is the conclusion based on the conversation. You can't clarify your question to me and then want an answer, please clarify your question. Who are the least equipped? What is easy access to birth control?

Yep, you can't demonstrate where Sanger said she wanted to sterilize blacks which was what you said and now you're just obfuscating.

Easy access to birth control is affordable, legal and easily available. Not something to be ashamed of when using which back in Sanger's day none of the above was a guarantee.

But, you don't give a shit about any of that, you only spout idiotic talking points about sterilizing minorities and now you simply ignore that you even said it.

You asked a question and I asked for clarification and then you jump off subject. I don't play silly games. I didn't say just blacks, I said she was for sterilization, of several types of people..

But you did name blacks- and you haven't been able to back that up.

Sanger believed in voluntary sterilization as an effective method of contraception for women(and men) at a time when most contraception was illegal.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

n my own work, I have seen throughout the world the tragedies of parents overburdened by larger numbers of children than they can rear in decency. The birth control movement sprang from need of mothers and babies. When we opened our first birth control clinics, the majority of our patients were women who were already struggling with the problems of too frequent and too rapid pregnancies. There are still far too many of them, even in our favored country. But the mark of our success has been that more and more young couples are coming to our birth control clinics and to their private physicians to get advice on the spacing of their children before they are overwhelmed with the arrival of babies they cannot support. Those of us who have struggled all these years to give birth control its proper place in our medical and public health picture are proud and grateful that so much has been done.

Oh the horror- Margaret Sanger was working to enable poor people to able to responsibly plan their families.

In birth control work, we find that there are always a certain proportion of women who for one reason or another cannot manage conception control methods, as we know them now, with assurances of success. There are women with insurmountable blocks, stemming in part at least from their early sex education or lack of it, against using birth control measures. A rather common example is the woman who as a girl was taught so sternly that any touching of the genital organs is wicked that she never overcomes her aversion. Sometimes physicians or counsellors can overcome these blocks; not always. Then there are the incorrigibly careless. There are also the couples who have as many children as they believe they can rear. This may be any number, and the only people who can decide what that number should be is the couple themselves.

For all these people, sterilization is the common sense procedure

Sanger was a self proclaimed negative eugenist, that means she was for forced sterilization. Pretty simple. After the start of WWII, she and many of the eugenists went silent.

Pretty simple her own words say she was against forced sterilization.

Here- let me quote her again:

The program in this country at least, does not involve compulsory features. No one here proposes that some official be endowed with the authority to order anyone to be sterilized. What we do contend for is the right of the individual to know what sterilization would mean to him or her, to have the facilities for: the operation if desired and to be protected in life afterwards.

Until you can come up with a quote of her saying she was for forced sterilization you are just rumor mongering.

Probably because you object to her advocating on behalf of women's rights.

Again, it was quoted after WWII, a huge difference. Before WWII, she and other Progressive Eugenicist were pushing for states to adopt compulsory sterilization. Been know for a long time and recently the push has been to cover up the truth of T. Roosevelt, W. Wilson, Carnegie and Sanger's views.

 

[jon_berzerk]

wrong:

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

Your quote isn't there.

I didn't get the wording exactly right, but her message is clear, Planned parenthood was designed to reduce the black birth rate by killing unborn black babies.

Birth control does not kill babies. Are you calling legal birth control racist now?

lol

WTF is wrong with you? birth control and abortion are two completely different things.

Sanger opposed abortion. Your references are to birth control. Is birth control racist?

but she favored forced sterilization