Historical Parallels Between Poland and the Ukraine

[Ringo]

Stepan Bandera: Ukraine's Nazi National Hero

Stepan Bandera is considered as a national hero in Ukraine, with many Ukrainians praising him and his deeds as a fighter for Ukraine's independence and freedom before, during and after WW2. Yet his real history shows there is nothing praiseworthy about the man, or what he strove for. As a young...

www.dispropaganda.com

 

[Likkmee]

It recently struck me that the current Russian incursion into the Ukraine has several historical parallels with the German attack on Poland in 1939.

1. Both Russia and Germany were faced with important parts of their territories (Sevastapol/Crimea and Danzig/Prussia) having become geographically separated from the rest of their countries. Both tried to negotiate with the newly recreated intervening countries (Ukraine and Poland) to reestablish physical links to these territories.

2. Outside Powers (U.S. and Great Britain) interfered with these negotiations by falsely assuring the intervening countries that they would be protected if they refused to negotiate. After attempts at negotiation failed, both Russia and Germany seized areas of these intervening countries in order to reestablish physical links with their severed territories.

3. After these incursions took place, Outside Powers officially declared their opposition but were not able to undertake any actions to repel the incursions. In the case of Poland, Great Britain's weak political leadership had already emboldened Germany to the extent that a second world war became inevitable.

4. In the case of the Ukraine, America's weak leadership has emboldened Russia in the same way. The American government has reduced itself to the position of a broadcaster at a sporting event; describing the action but having no control over the outcome.

The only thing different is...Ukrainians are Polocks who couldn't find their way home after the war

 

[Mushroom]

It recently struck me that the current Russian incursion into the Ukraine has several historical parallels with the German attack on Poland in 1939.

Actually, the biggest should be immediately obvious.

In 1939, Poland was part of a multi-national mutual defense alliance that was composed of the UK, Poland, Greece, Romania, and France. In which each of the nations that was a member agreed to rise in the defense of any other of the nations. That is why when Germany attacked Poland, the UK and France declared war against Germany.

The Ukraine however belongs to no such organizations and tried to remain neutral in any potential conflict between Russia-CIS-CSTO and NATO. In fact, ironically it used to belong to the CIS and CSTO, which were similar organizations that were intended to protect former Warsaw pact nations from attack and invasion. However, the irony there is that the nation that was promising that defense was the same one that bit off chunks of the countries it was pretending to defend. Hence, Ukraine, Georgia, Uzbekistan, and Azerbaijan all leaving the organization.

So no, in reality the two situations are almost nothing alike. The fact that Poland was involved in several alliances that mandated other nations join in their defense and that Ukraine had no such treaties at all is a huge difference.

And come on now, US intervention in Poland in 1939? Now if you had said France you may have had something there, but the US?

 

[jwoodie]

Actually, the biggest should be immediately obvious.

In 1939, Poland was part of a multi-national mutual defense alliance that was composed of the UK, Poland, Greece, Romania, and France.

Actually, not so much.

Britain signed a treaty with Poland at the end of March 1939 in response to PM Chamberlain's embarrassment at Munich. Britain's hollow promise of military assistance did nothing more than to cause Polish leaders to take a more intransigent stance against German demands for reunification with Danzig and East Prussia. The fact that Britain had no problem with the USSR invading the eastern half of Poland reveals more about Britain's malign intentions than those of Germany.

By the way, France did not ratify its treaty with Poland until September 4, three days after the German invasion.

 

[Mushroom]

Britain signed a treaty with Poland at the end of March 1939 in response to PM Chamberlain's embarrassment at Munich. Britain's hollow promise of military assistance did nothing more than to cause Polish leaders to take a more intransigent stance against German demands for reunification with Danzig and East Prussia. The fact that Britain had no problem with the USSR invading the eastern half of Poland reveals more about Britain's malign intentions than those of Germany.

And what does that matter? If it was months or years before the invasion, there was still a mutual defense agreement.

And the Anglo-Polish Treaty specified if Germany attacked Poland (or Italy with the other countries they were trying to forge into an alliance). It was phrased as a "European Power". And in case you did not know geography, the Soviet Union was an Asian nation.

ARTICLE I.​

Should one of the Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities with a European Power in consequence of aggression by the latter against that Contracting Party, the other Contracting Party will at once give the Contracting Party engaged in hostilities all the support and assistance in its power.

ARTICLE 2.​

(1) The provisions of Article I will also apply in the event of any action by a European Power which clearly threatened, directly or indirectly, the independence of one of the Contracting Parties, and was of such a nature that the Party in question considered it vital to resist it with its armed forces.

(2) Should one of the Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities with a European Power in consequence of action by that Power which threatened the independence or neutrality of another European State in such a way as to constitute a clear menace to the security of that Contracting Party, the provisions of Article I will apply, without prejudice, however, to the rights of the other European State concerned.

The Avalon Project : The British Bluebook

And the alliance between France and Poland actually dates to 1923. The 1939 treaty was a different one, but the one from over a decade earlier was still in effect.

 

[Ringo]