- Apr 21, 2010
- 99,273
- 60,607
He did nothing but hinder Marshall, THE man who built the Arsenal. Fdr benefitted from having some incredible people around him who were able to succeed in spite of his efforts to screw them up.
Honoring The Sacrifices Of The Soviet Union in WWII….Really?
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
He did nothing but hinder Marshall, THE man who built the Arsenal. Fdr benefitted from having some incredible people around him who were able to succeed in spite of his efforts to screw them up.
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for movemobile.nytimes.com
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th centurywww.moreorless.net.au
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
You don't understand Russians,
and prob. never will.
Last edited:
- Oct 6, 2008
- 125,099
- 60,658
- Thread starter
- #163
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
Oz and the Orchestra
Platinum Member
- May 25, 2020
- 2,720
- 1,442
Cant possibly know what Stalin was thinking, but from his position watching Nazi build up, Czechoslovakia, Hitlers ambitions in Mein Kampf, he had more to worry about than Britain or France. He probably guessed that if he devided Poland with the Nazi's and the Nazi's made the first move in invading, Britain & France would declare war on Germany and wouldn't be foolish enough to declare war on him as they would have their hands full and was too far away for the Brit / French
alliance to have any serious effect. So from a Soviet point of view and without hindsight yes he made the right decision.
- Oct 6, 2008
- 125,099
- 60,658
- Thread starter
- #168
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
Given another chance, you booted it again.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Clearly it is pointless to engage with you.
Interesting that both you and Netanyahu have the same nick name…”BB”…him due to his first name, you, due to brain size.
I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
you're talking about how marxist from europe came here and defeated us by filling a vacuum of ideas.
then and now, honestly and harshly judging the idea and the people on their merits or lack there of, would have been then, and is now, a fine defense against that type of thing.
marxists, no matter how good of a job they might have done fighting nazis, are still bad guys and should be treated as such.
not glorified like rw wants to. not invited to immigrate there, or join our universities. or worse yet, governments.
Oz and the Orchestra
Platinum Member
- May 25, 2020
- 2,720
- 1,442
See you ignored my question as much s you ignore anti-Semitic attacks.I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
No matter it seems a universal Jewish policy.
that is very generous of you, you are very understanding and generous to stalin, one of the greatest mass murderers of all time.
yet, when looking at Americans of that same time period, you assume the worst, ie that wacism would have prevented them from fighting the nazis with nuclear weapons.
why does stalin get such generosity, and Americans don't?
Oz and the Orchestra
Platinum Member
- May 25, 2020
- 2,720
- 1,442
You give up?
Well I'm not surprised, I warned you from the start you were in for a thrashing as a ripped your dumb arguments apart. but I'm surprised at how easy you capitulated!
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 285,317
- 158,335
FDR selected Marshall and made him the most powerful General
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
Given another chance, you booted it again.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Clearly it is pointless to engage with you.
Interesting that both you and Netanyahu have the same nick name…”BB”…him due to his first name, you, due to brain size.
All that and still can't address a single point?
Well...
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
you're talking about how marxist from europe came here and defeated us by filling a vacuum of ideas.
then and now, honestly and harshly judging the idea and the people on their merits or lack there of, would have been then, and is now, a fine defense against that type of thing.
marxists, no matter how good of a job they might have done fighting nazis, are still bad guys and should be treated as such.
not glorified like rw wants to. not invited to immigrate there, or join our universities. or worse yet, governments.
Ideas are mobile enough to move without immigration.
Soviets subverted the American society.
When USSR fell,
it was already too late.
Russians know Americans well,
can't say the opposite.
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
What question, what universal policy?See you ignored my question as much s you ignore anti-Semitic attacks.I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
No matter it seems a universal Jewish policy.
- Apr 21, 2010
- 99,273
- 60,607
I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
you're talking about how marxist from europe came here and defeated us by filling a vacuum of ideas.
then and now, honestly and harshly judging the idea and the people on their merits or lack there of, would have been then, and is now, a fine defense against that type of thing.
marxists, no matter how good of a job they might have done fighting nazis, are still bad guys and should be treated as such.
not glorified like rw wants to. not invited to immigrate there, or join our universities. or worse yet, governments.
Ideas are mobile enough to move without immigration.
Soviets subverted the American society.
When USSR fell,
it was already too late.
Russians know Americans well,
can't say the opposite.
Oh, you're wrong. The Republic hasn't fallen yet. The Soviet Union collapsed, but evil people do evil things. Evil people are being constantly bred.
You can't get rid of them, you can only control them for short periods at a time.
- Apr 21, 2010
- 99,273
- 60,607
Actually he rose through the ranks and FDR had no other choice. Churchill called Marshall the "organizer of victory".
He understood that without Marshall the Germans would have won.
Decus
Platinum Member
- May 13, 2012
- 3,555
- 2,036
Ha ha ha - you stupid twisted imbecile.The war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You just can't resist it can you? Taking the well documented historical record WWll and twisting,restructuring, airbrushing and wholly misrepresenting it. All because your extreme right wing views, fondness of the Nazi's and hatred of communism you feel compels you.
"1.An interesting and significant month, August."
Isn't it! You then outline the allied achievements in liberating North Western Europe even including the Free French, de Gaulle and a few officers who basically flew from London to Paris backed by the allies. Wow!
You obviously have absolutely no knowledge of Geography-
" Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?"
Ha ha.......NO, Did you expect me to?
Perhaps it might be because the soviets were over 500 miles away having liberated - Crimea, Hungary, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland single handedly, and were approaching Germany's eastern border.
The only possible way they could have been in France, Holland etc, is if they had already occupied Germany in which case the war would be over.
I am quite shocked by your ignorance!
Need to be somewhere now, but don't run away as I haven't even started your thrashing and have much to add.
How ignorant of you for saying this:
"Perhaps it might be because the soviets were over 500 miles away having liberated - Crimea, Hungary, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland single handedly, and were approaching Germany's eastern border."
The Soviet Union was Russia and their conquered territories. So drop the term "soviets" and refer to them as what they are: Russians. The Russians conquered Crimea, Hungary, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Poland and installed puppet governments. There was no voluntary union on the part of the conquered territories.
.
rylah
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 21,957
- 4,690
I don't know how You reach such 'complex' conclusions,They didn't just "survive unpleasant experience"Family, who captured Berlin,
FDR was fine with Hitler taking other countries. He never met a dictator he didn't like.
Munich Agreement, (September 30, 1938), settlement reached by Germany, Great Britain, France, and Italy that permitted German annexation of the Sudetenland in western Czechoslovakia. After his success in absorbing Austria into Germany proper in March 1938, Adolf Hitler looked covetously at Czechoslovakia, Munich Agreement | Definition, Summary, & Significance
At the Munich conference where Europe sold out Czechoslovakia, even though France had a treaty to go to war to preserve Czechoslovakia…..Chamberlain was about to appease Hitler….and FDR sent this message to Chamberlain:
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference
MUNICH MESSAGE FROM U.S. BARED; Roosevelt Sent Encouraging 'Good Man' to Chamberlain Day Before Conference (Published 1955)
Documents on US foreign relations in '38, pub by State Dept, include P Gilbert rept on Anschluss, noting strong Austrian support for move
"Munich." The lesson of appeasement—that giving in to aggression just invites more aggression—has calcified into dogma. Neville Chamberlain's name has become code for a weak-kneed, caviling politician, just as Winston Churchill has become the beau ideal of indomitable leadership.
When Chamberlain first announced, after returning from signing his deal with Hitler at Munich in 1938, that "peace is at hand," FDR sent Chamberlain a telegram: "Good man," it said. "I am not a bit upset over the final result," FDR wrote the U.S. ambassador to Italy. When Hitler began to chew up the rest of Europe in 1939, FDR temporized and maneuvered to build political support for intervention among his decidedly isolationist countrymen. Indeed, the United States did not declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the United States in December 1941, four days after Pearl Harbor." Presidents and the Mythology of MunichThe war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.
1.An interesting and significant month, August.
August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.
Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
Most of what You write is well researched and I like reading it,
but this is just a bunch disgraceful rubbish.
Yes the Russians were shooting their own not to retreat,
but the Russians, common Soviet folk fought HEROICALLY!
It's beyond disrespectful to present the cause of their death like that,
no better than the vulgar leftist one-sided propaganda.
The Soviets would round up a village, march them at gunpoint to a battlefield, and make them run at german machinegun nests to run them out of bullets.
Brave? No, not really. They were going to be shot either way. They just hoped the death by the Germans would be quicker.
Were there Soviet soldiers who were brave? Absolutely. But to declare that everyone was brave is a lie. A lie based on propaganda.
So you go to the other pathetic extreme to excuse this kind of disrespect...
This is just rubbish for the arrogant who have no memory of war on their soil.
They fought BRAVELY AS A NATION, no need to split hairs, have some basic man's honor.
Where does this need to overcompensate so extremely come from?
2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.
a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war
b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.
Really???
There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.
First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.
3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
And.....
World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.
And.....
"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Website no longer available | Heroes and killers of the 20th century
Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:
"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383
So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.
Oh…wait….they did!
Love is blind.
You see the world in black and white.
I'm not a product of Your American school systems.
You should AT LEAST get out there and try communicate with Russian veterans.
But unfortunately too late,
arrogance will prevail.
That's why in spite bringing the USSR down,
the Soviet ideology won in America.
I have. I have been to several celebrations on Mamayev Kurgan. I have walked the grain silo in Stalingrad with the soldiers who fought there.
You?
field spy unit, from the age of 17 in war,
didn't hold anything but a pen and paper before.
Then returned to ruined home all skin and bones,
brought up his family in honor and even adopted orphans.
True heroes, true men,
with strong women behind them.
This thread is a disgrace!
Your fathers sacrifice aside, the reason why his home was a ruin was because his government didn't give a shit about him.
And, no. This thread is not a disgrace. Heroism is knowingly placing yourself in harm's way in the clear knowledge that you probably won't survive the experience, yet you do it anyway to save your friends, fellow soldiers, or family.
Merely surviving an incredibly unpleasant experience is a wonderful thing, but it ain't herouc.
but moved on and defeated the reich.
They even defeated America, ideologically from within,
but You refused to look or listen when people told You decades ago.
"They even defeated America, ideologically from within, "
Are you claiming that they were Marxists, and you are proud of how this ideology has corrupted America?
Leninists, Marxists, Stalinists ...You name it.
Why do I have to be 'proud' about something for pointing out?
My constant contention throughout our exchange is that -
they all filled a void in American society,
and instead of minimal intellectual introspection,
all I get is a bunch of nervous infantile defensive reactions.
All suggesting denial is vast,
and problem is even worse.
IF they were a real threat, as you admit they were, attacking them, then and now, would be the healthy and smart response.
but in Israel we say "if granny had rollerblades..."
you're talking about how marxist from europe came here and defeated us by filling a vacuum of ideas.
then and now, honestly and harshly judging the idea and the people on their merits or lack there of, would have been then, and is now, a fine defense against that type of thing.
marxists, no matter how good of a job they might have done fighting nazis, are still bad guys and should be treated as such.
not glorified like rw wants to. not invited to immigrate there, or join our universities. or worse yet, governments.
Ideas are mobile enough to move without immigration.
Soviets subverted the American society.
When USSR fell,
it was already too late.
Russians know Americans well,
can't say the opposite.
Oh, you're wrong. The Republic hasn't fallen yet. The Soviet Union collapsed, but evil people do evil things. Evil people are being constantly bred.
You can't get rid of them, you can only control them for short periods at a time.
Hope I'm wrong.
We talk different things - You only see it when a country falls,
I'm talking about ideological subversion, when a critical generational mass reached.
That happened what, already 2 generations ago?
Folks keep drawing Russian caricatures...
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