How did the Universe get here?

[Derideo_Te]

Who made god? Or are you suggesting with a straight face that he happened without direction?

why do you think God had to happen?......

Maybe they confuse the rules that God imposed upon creation with the God who has no rules posed upon Him.

Fallacious assumptions that there was even a deity let alone a "creation".

 

[GISMYS]

why do you think God had to happen?......

Maybe they confuse the rules that God imposed upon creation with the God who has no rules posed upon Him.

Fallacious assumptions that there was even a deity let alone a "creation".

GOD SAYS=That man is a fool who says to himself, “There is no God!” Anyone who talks like that is warped and evil and cannot really be a good person at all.Psalm 14:1===Only a fool would say to himself, “There is no God.” And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin. PSALM 53:1 and you???

 

[Youwerecreated]

Ok that's true, but if one person believes in an imaginary man in the sky, everyone will think he's crazy. It takes more than one to get a religion started.

One might have been the first to invent it but he had to convince others for it to catch on. Think about it. You're sitting around and you come up with this concept after smoking some payote and imagine how dumb your audience must have been to buy into it without any proof. Or, they had proof. When the lightening struck and burned their friend to a crisp or a lion ate him, the day before he was being mean and so they put two and two together and decided that it must have been god who punished him for being bad.

It doesn't sound to me like you have evidence or proof that man invented spirituality. It sounds an awful lot like you are speculating and opining to me. When you fantasize about how it all must have gone down, that is not scientific evaluation of any evidence, that is purely speculative opinion. But I enjoy speculating, so let me have a go at this too....

Imagine you are an advanced monkey man, sitting around the cave one day. A bolt of lightning strikes a tree and starts a fire. All the other animals clear out... they take off running, away from this "fire" thing that happens. Maybe your first instinct is to run as well, after all, it looks dangerous. But there is something inside you that tells you it's okay as long as you keep your distance. You notice that it's warm and you start thinking maybe this could be a benefit on those cold nights in the cave with your cave woman.

The next day, you are out messing around with some rocks and stuff and you notice, if you hit these certain rocks together you get this "spark" thingy... kinda reminds you of the lightning. At first, you are probably a little startled by it, but again... something tells you it will be okay to play with this some more. Pretty soon, you are actually starting a fire by yourself!

You see, what you have discovered is more important than how to control fire. You've discovered human spiritual connection with something greater than self. That thing that told you it was okay to stick around and investigate, to play with the sparking rocks, to make fire by yourself. You find that that thing is useful in telling you all kinds of things are okay, that you can do it and there is no need to fear. Other advanced monkey men are amazed at what all you can do, and they ask you what is your secret? You tell them is is this thing you've decided to call "inspiration" and you get it from this other thing that speaks to you in your head and tells you it's alright, you can do this.

Then one of the less-advanced monkey men says... awww that's a bunch of bullshit!

How did man discover human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

So when someone figured out the wheel and how to use it, that was discovering human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

Firstly, we do not "know" that the Universe was not always here - it could be that it was.

If God was always here, why can't the same be held true for the Universe?

Maybe our current model of linear time is flawed and there was no beginning or end?

There is a small problem with the Universe "ending" and it has to do with this little thing In physics called "the conservation of energy."

Why does a theory like mine, automatically preclude a divine entity?

So you know more then the scientists who say the universe had a beginning ? and ever since the big bang, everything was the result of a cause and it produced an effect.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The problem with your theory is motion of the universe. The entire universe (space) is expanding, in a constant state of motion. If Newton's Laws of Motion are valid, there has to be something that caused or began the motion of the universe. The little thing in physics we call "laws of conservation" or the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, pretty much rules out that the universe is in some kind of perpetual motion cycle. Entropy, which is also part of the laws of conservation, means the motion of the universe will eventually end.

Time is NOT linear. This was proven over 100 years ago by Einstein with his Theory of General and Special Relativity. Time is relative. It changes throughout the universe and depends on velocity of the observer. In other words, this motion of the universe (space) is connected to time itself. A space-time continuum.

What we perceive as "reality" only exists with a conscious perception of time. This is what prompted Einstein to say, "Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

Maybe the universe simply "exists" and was never created in the first place. I'm not really talking about time as explained by relativity, but a more dynamic model - one with multiple dimensions.

As far as the big-bang is concerned, that might have been a mere step in the process.

The multiple big bang theory makes sense for a universe that has always existed and will always exist.

One Big Bang, or were there many? | Science | The Guardian

It is only speculation and is not scientific .there is no evidence to support this view.

 

[Youwerecreated]

why do you think God had to happen?......

Maybe they confuse the rules that God imposed upon creation with the God who has no rules posed upon Him.

Fallacious assumptions that there was even a deity let alone a "creation".

Both sides are not allowed to speculate ?

 

[sealybobo]

It doesn't sound to me like you have evidence or proof that man invented spirituality. It sounds an awful lot like you are speculating and opining to me. When you fantasize about how it all must have gone down, that is not scientific evaluation of any evidence, that is purely speculative opinion. But I enjoy speculating, so let me have a go at this too....

Imagine you are an advanced monkey man, sitting around the cave one day. A bolt of lightning strikes a tree and starts a fire. All the other animals clear out... they take off running, away from this "fire" thing that happens. Maybe your first instinct is to run as well, after all, it looks dangerous. But there is something inside you that tells you it's okay as long as you keep your distance. You notice that it's warm and you start thinking maybe this could be a benefit on those cold nights in the cave with your cave woman.

The next day, you are out messing around with some rocks and stuff and you notice, if you hit these certain rocks together you get this "spark" thingy... kinda reminds you of the lightning. At first, you are probably a little startled by it, but again... something tells you it will be okay to play with this some more. Pretty soon, you are actually starting a fire by yourself!

You see, what you have discovered is more important than how to control fire. You've discovered human spiritual connection with something greater than self. That thing that told you it was okay to stick around and investigate, to play with the sparking rocks, to make fire by yourself. You find that that thing is useful in telling you all kinds of things are okay, that you can do it and there is no need to fear. Other advanced monkey men are amazed at what all you can do, and they ask you what is your secret? You tell them is is this thing you've decided to call "inspiration" and you get it from this other thing that speaks to you in your head and tells you it's alright, you can do this.

Then one of the less-advanced monkey men says... awww that's a bunch of bullshit!

How did man discover human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

So when someone figured out the wheel and how to use it, that was discovering human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

We already have a name for that it's called your conscience and we know where it comes from. It comes from your brain.

# 17 on things a theist might say: God is the universe/love/laws of physics/CONSCIENCE.

We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is intentionally misleading.

“To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

 

[GISMYS]

How did man discover human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

So when someone figured out the wheel and how to use it, that was discovering human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

We already have a name for that it's called your conscience and we know where it comes from. It comes from your brain.

# 17 on things a theist might say: God is the universe/love/laws of physics/CONSCIENCE.

We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is intentionally misleading.

“To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

LOL!!! YOU SURE WASTE A LOT OF TIME trying to fight against t GOD who you try to deny is real!!! ever wonder why??

 

[Montrovant]

Why must I show evidence that brain impulses happen independent of who we are?

Because that is the claim you are making, idiot!

The point is that those impulses are what make up who we are!

No, those impulses are NOT what make up who we are! If that were the case, no human would have any control over who they are. It would all be totally and randomly dependent on what kind of impulses our brains shot out! We wouldn't be able to control our emotions, we wouldn't be able to overcome our emotions, we wouldn't have the ability to objectively reason. You're a fucking idiot if you believe this.



When you claim these damn impulses control who we are! Yes, our brains are repositories of our selves and personalities, that's what I said! It is those attributes that control what we think and how we feel, not the goddamn impulses! We create the impulse when our mind works. If our mind doesn't work (as in YOUR case) then no impulse is created.



But I don't "therefore believe" those religions must be incorrect. I don't know. I only know what I believe, I can't speak for the correctness or incorrectness of what others believe. Like I tried to explain to you, perhaps Spiritual Nature effects people differently? I tried to explain it with an ice cream analogy... you apparently didn't get that. Let me try again... You enjoy a vacation, as do many people... You prefer going to the beach, someone else likes the mountains. They tell you they had a wonderful vacation in the mountains. Are the WRONG? Who the hell are YOU to judge that? You like the beach, it doesn't mean they can't like the mountains! Now maybe they don't like the beach and they tell you they don't like it, it's no fun for them to vacation there... are they WRONG? Is that INCORRECT? Is there some law written that everyone has to like what you like to be CORRECT? Nope!

I honestly don't know how else I can explain this to you, it's becoming quite onerous to be honest. It seems that you would have enough functional brain cells and enough neurons firing to comprehend this. But apparently, you just DON'T!

Again, if we have thoughts and feelings independent of our brains, does someone with little to no brain activity still have thoughts and feelings? Would they be a sort of Johnny Got His Gun state, trapped in a body, thinking and feeling as normal, but unable to interact with the world?

And what is it that the impulses in our brains caused by our thoughts and emotions do?

I find it hard to fathom how the idea of the brain as the place our thoughts come from is so foreign to you. Whether or not you believe it, I think it's a fairly common concept; the brain is the computer which runs the machines that are our bodies.

I'm done addressing this topic. Sorry! See my above comments.

Our history as a species tells you that people cannot be born spiritually blind? The fact that eyesight is an inherent part of humanity, yet some people are without sight, doesn't seem analogous to you? The specifics you have given about the nature of god are based on our history as a species? The specifics you have given about the nature of the spiritual are based on the history of our species? That is not much of an answer.

Eyesight is a physical sense, it's not a good example. Are there people born without the ability to think or feel emotions? I suppose there are... you certainly seem to be incapable of thought. Maybe you are right, maybe there are spiritual retards who can't think or feel things?

Ah, another example of you not being upset here, huh? More insults that you complain about in others, too!

Quick question. You have said you don't believe animals are spiritual/have spiritual nature. Does that mean you don't believe animals experience emotions?

Without those impulses, the brain is kind of like a computer with no power. But you know what? Forget the impulses. Just say that the brain is where our thoughts and emotions come from, there's the physical incarnation of our thoughts. Is that easier for you to accept?

For someone who has repeatedly complained about semantics arguments, you engage in them a lot!

I understood your ice cream analogy. You, clearly, did not understand when I repeatedly said that there are cases in which beliefs are contradictory. Do you understand the word contradictory? Do you need me to post a definition for you? If you have a belief, and someone else has a different belief, and those two beliefs cannot be true simultaneously, they are contradictory. Because of that, in such a situation, belief in the one thing inherently comes with disbelief in the other thing. What I have said is that some of your stated beliefs about god and the spiritual seem to be incompatible with religious beliefs, which would make those beliefs inherently incorrect to you. For example, if you do not believe that a person must accept Christ to find salvation, if you believe salvation can be had another way, then you would automatically consider a person who thinks salvation can only be found through Christ to be wrong. I think your ideas of an impersonal god are incompatible with the personal god of the Abrahamic religions, your singular god is incompatible with the polytheism of at least some Hinduism, etc. Spiritual nature may affect people differently, but unless you are saying that your stated beliefs about the nature of god are not true for anyone but yourself, there is contradiction there.

So now simply thinking is a sense? You have changed your statements about humanity's supposed spiritual sense as we've gone along. So spiritual sense works differently than our physical senses....how then does it work, and how do you know how it works? Saying, "Human history" is not actually answering that question, by the way.

 

[sealybobo]

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

We already have a name for that it's called your conscience and we know where it comes from. It comes from your brain.

# 17 on things a theist might say: God is the universe/love/laws of physics/CONSCIENCE.

We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is intentionally misleading.

“To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

LOL!!! YOU SURE WASTE A LOT OF TIME trying to fight against t GOD who you try to deny is real!!! ever wonder why??

Because it produces a society of fools. Just like the kings and pharoahs used it to control the masses back then, they do today too.

I have written out in great length why I think god is bad for us. If you want go back and re read everything I have posted but I am not going to waste my time re explaining it to someone who is as far gone as you. I think this is the closest thing to a real reply I have ever received from you. Good for you. No quotes from the bible or threats of hell. I'm proud of you.

How long have you been on USMB praising god? I come every 2 years on election years. But I realized that you can't talk logically with voters who believe in fairy tales. Politics used to be my focus but I think there is a bigger problem here. Religion.

No anger, hate, wanting to be a sinner. Stop saying that stuff. Lets just talk rationally. If Adam & Eve, Noah & Mosus are just stories or allegories, then so too is the Jesus story. No virgin births, miracles, turning 10 loaves into 100, rising from the dead. These are all stories.

At least if people understand that then they will at least take the bible with a grain of salt. Understand ancient uneducated monks in a cult wrote the bible. Those stories are to teach right from wrong.

It's like Santa. You can tell a kid about god and heaven and hell, but when he gets older and questions and you continue to tell a person that lie, that is dumbing down that person. If they believe that how smart can they possibly be? Most scientists don't believe in god. Ever wonder why? Because they are smarter than the average citizen. So am I.

Even my brother who's a christian. I asked him a few questions without telling him I don't believe in god and I think he realizes it's all stories/made up. But that doesn't stop him from believing in god. I guess I don't want to be the one who breaks it to him and I certainly wouldn't tell his kids there is no god just like I didn't tell them there is no santa. Maybe when they are older. Until then, let the brainwashing their parents are giving them continue. But to be honest, I don't hear my greek orthodox priests talking like born again priests saying who's going to hell and who's not. The one thing they do have in common though is they always need more money.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It doesn't sound to me like you have evidence or proof that man invented spirituality. It sounds an awful lot like you are speculating and opining to me. When you fantasize about how it all must have gone down, that is not scientific evaluation of any evidence, that is purely speculative opinion. But I enjoy speculating, so let me have a go at this too....

Imagine you are an advanced monkey man, sitting around the cave one day. A bolt of lightning strikes a tree and starts a fire. All the other animals clear out... they take off running, away from this "fire" thing that happens. Maybe your first instinct is to run as well, after all, it looks dangerous. But there is something inside you that tells you it's okay as long as you keep your distance. You notice that it's warm and you start thinking maybe this could be a benefit on those cold nights in the cave with your cave woman.

The next day, you are out messing around with some rocks and stuff and you notice, if you hit these certain rocks together you get this "spark" thingy... kinda reminds you of the lightning. At first, you are probably a little startled by it, but again... something tells you it will be okay to play with this some more. Pretty soon, you are actually starting a fire by yourself!

You see, what you have discovered is more important than how to control fire. You've discovered human spiritual connection with something greater than self. That thing that told you it was okay to stick around and investigate, to play with the sparking rocks, to make fire by yourself. You find that that thing is useful in telling you all kinds of things are okay, that you can do it and there is no need to fear. Other advanced monkey men are amazed at what all you can do, and they ask you what is your secret? You tell them is is this thing you've decided to call "inspiration" and you get it from this other thing that speaks to you in your head and tells you it's alright, you can do this.

Then one of the less-advanced monkey men says... awww that's a bunch of bullshit!

How did man discover human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

So when someone figured out the wheel and how to use it, that was discovering human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

Other animals besides humans have conscienceness and therefore they too have a conscience. A conscience is an emotion that we feel when we have done something wrong. There is no evidence of any connection to your imaginary God involved since people who don't believe in your imaginary God also feel bad when they do something wrong.

 

[Derideo_Te]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

Firstly, we do not "know" that the Universe was not always here - it could be that it was.

If God was always here, why can't the same be held true for the Universe?

Maybe our current model of linear time is flawed and there was no beginning or end?

There is a small problem with the Universe "ending" and it has to do with this little thing In physics called "the conservation of energy."

Why does a theory like mine, automatically preclude a divine entity?

So you know more then the scientists who say the universe had a beginning ? and ever since the big bang, everything was the result of a cause and it produced an effect.

Scientists don't say that the universe had a "beginning" meaning that it was "created". They just mean that the current form of the universe started with the big bang. Before that was the singularity and they have no way to measure what existed prior to that. However that don't say that there was nothing which is what you are falsely implying.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Maybe the universe simply "exists" and was never created in the first place. I'm not really talking about time as explained by relativity, but a more dynamic model - one with multiple dimensions.

As far as the big-bang is concerned, that might have been a mere step in the process.

The multiple big bang theory makes sense for a universe that has always existed and will always exist.

One Big Bang, or were there many? | Science | The Guardian

It is only speculation and is not scientific .there is no evidence to support this view.

BZZZT Wrong!

The Laws of Physics and the Math all support the theory of a cyclical universe. The more it is is explored the more sense it makes. So yes, there is evidence to support this theory.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Firstly, we do not "know" that the Universe was not always here - it could be that it was.

If God was always here, why can't the same be held true for the Universe?

Maybe our current model of linear time is flawed and there was no beginning or end?

There is a small problem with the Universe "ending" and it has to do with this little thing In physics called "the conservation of energy."

Why does a theory like mine, automatically preclude a divine entity?

So you know more then the scientists who say the universe had a beginning ? and ever since the big bang, everything was the result of a cause and it produced an effect.

Scientists don't say that the universe had a "beginning" meaning that it was "created". They just mean that the current form of the universe started with the big bang. Before that was the singularity and they have no way to measure what existed prior to that. However that don't say that there was nothing which is what you are falsely implying.

Did time begin with the big bang ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

The multiple big bang theory makes sense for a universe that has always existed and will always exist.

One Big Bang, or were there many? | Science | The Guardian

It is only speculation and is not scientific .there is no evidence to support this view.

BZZZT Wrong!

The Laws of Physics and the Math all support the theory of a cyclical universe. The more it is is explored the more sense it makes. So yes, there is evidence to support this theory.

No it don't, this theory conflicts with the 2nd law. like I said this is a way to hide from the truth that the Universe and time began at the same time.Your theory can't stand in defiance of the 2nd law and be considered a legitimate theory.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Maybe they confuse the rules that God imposed upon creation with the God who has no rules posed upon Him.

Fallacious assumptions that there was even a deity let alone a "creation".

Both sides are not allowed to speculate ?

Your side alleges that it's myths are the "absolute truth" whereas scientific hypotheses must undergo rigorous methodology and subsequent peer review scrutiny.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Fallacious assumptions that there was even a deity let alone a "creation".

Both sides are not allowed to speculate ?

Your side alleges that it's myths are the "absolute truth" whereas scientific hypotheses must undergo rigorous methodology and subsequent peer review scrutiny.

Of course and by limited knowledge and data.

 

[Boss]

Ah, another example of you not being upset here, huh? More insults that you complain about in others, too!

Well I am not upset, you're free to think whatever you please. What you are interpreting as me being upset is sheer sarcasm. I am very sarcastic. I don't think I've complained about insults from others. It's a forum policy that you can't just lob insults without discussing the thread topic, and I've pointed out that rule a few times, is that what you're talking about?

Quick question. You have said you don't believe animals are spiritual/have spiritual nature. Does that mean you don't believe animals experience emotions?

I did not say that. I said we see no evidence that other animals spiritually connect like humans. Also, it appears you think I've said that emotions are spirituality, and that's not what I've said either. I said emotions are spiritual in that they are not physical and they involve our spirit. Spirituality is specific connection with spiritual nature and I don't think other animals have that. Now, you will also notice I said "I don't think" here... it means, I am not standing on a mountaintop proclaiming my words to be infallible and golden and that everyone must genuflect toward me and respect my word as The Truth eternal. I get the feeling that's how you interpret my opinions sometimes, and I wanted to clarify this. I am capable of being wrong, and you are always welcome to disagree.

Without those impulses, the brain is kind of like a computer with no power. But you know what? Forget the impulses. Just say that the brain is where our thoughts and emotions come from, there's the physical incarnation of our thoughts. Is that easier for you to accept?

No no no.. you brought up the computer, so let's use that here... When you turn on your computer, does it just randomly start doing things like coming here and posting, or are you having to click on links and type on the keyboard to make that happen? So the "impulses" in your computer are the result of your input, what you're doing to tell the computer what to do. The computer is not generating impulses to tell you what to do, is it?

Yes... our brains provide a physical incarnation for our thoughts. Brains also enable the same physical incarnation of our spirituality. However, the brain is not controlling what we think or believe, that is done through our mind and conscience. Yes, the brain is the functional component of our physical body where that happens. That doesn't make our mind and conscience physical. (clarification: I am using physical in the sense of materially physical here, not to be confused with things generally associated with any physiology.)

For someone who has repeatedly complained about semantics arguments, you engage in them a lot!

Yeah, but it only seems to be with YOU for some reason... wonder why that is?

I understood your ice cream analogy. You, clearly, did not understand when I repeatedly said that there are cases in which beliefs are contradictory. Do you understand the word contradictory? Do you need me to post a definition for you? If you have a belief, and someone else has a different belief, and those two beliefs cannot be true simultaneously, they are contradictory. Because of that, in such a situation, belief in the one thing inherently comes with disbelief in the other thing. What I have said is that some of your stated beliefs about god and the spiritual seem to be incompatible with religious beliefs, which would make those beliefs inherently incorrect to you. For example, if you do not believe that a person must accept Christ to find salvation, if you believe salvation can be had another way, then you would automatically consider a person who thinks salvation can only be found through Christ to be wrong. I think your ideas of an impersonal god are incompatible with the personal god of the Abrahamic religions, your singular god is incompatible with the polytheism of at least some Hinduism, etc. Spiritual nature may affect people differently, but unless you are saying that your stated beliefs about the nature of god are not true for anyone but yourself, there is contradiction there.

I am saying that all I can attest to is what is true for myself. Spiritual nature doesn't have to conform to your sense of logic and order...or mine, for that matter. As I pointed out in my analogies, there can be more than one truth. Perhaps.... and this is just a point to ponder... God is individually custom-tailored? Our minds are all different, our personalities are not the same, we are all unique in our own way... why can't a spiritual entity be? Remember, God doesn't have to conform to a physical logic, where God is God no matter who you are. Again... I am just tossing that out there, I don't know that's true and I am not claiming it as such. It's just a possibility. This is why I can't sit here and condemn a Christian or say Muslims are wrong, or Hinduism is nuts. It's possible for us to all be right at the same time.

So now simply thinking is a sense? You have changed your statements about humanity's supposed spiritual sense as we've gone along. So spiritual sense works differently than our physical senses....how then does it work, and how do you know how it works? Saying, "Human history" is not actually answering that question, by the way.

The only thing I have changed is my approach to explaining things to you, because you seem to not understand the most simple elementary concepts. So is your strategy to play dumb and force me to explain something a different way, where you can then make the claim that I have changed my statements? Do you not find that to be a dishonest way to converse?

Look man, this is really simple... If you don't like me, just say... Hey, Boss... I don't like you, I think you're a jerk. Or... Boss, your avatar makes you look like a prick and I hate you! There is really no need for you to waste your time going through these long-ass threads and posts in order to get to the heart of the matter here.

For the third time, you have rejected what I have said and asked me again to explain how I know humans are spiritually connecting. If I find another way to explain this, you plan to attack that by claiming I am changing my statements. You probably won't accept anything I tell you because you've made your mind up that you're going to disagree with me no matter what. So regardless of what I present, you will find a way to deliberately misinterpret it or skew it out of context and try to turn it back around on me. That seems to have become your game, and I guess you must enjoy playing it. Me, on the other hand, I'm tired of your games. I want an honest conversation with someone of intellect, and that doesn't seem to be yourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=26500]Youwerecreated[/MENTION]
The point being we can agree how to talk about conscience, how to form agreements on law and science by conscience, and do not need to argue believe or agree how much is spiritual or physical/chemical in the mind. The point is we can agree there is a mechanism by which we determine what is true/false, right/wrong, good/bad, beneficial/harmful, consensual/coerced, CONSISTENT/INCONSISTENT.

So we can agree to use this mechanism in the conscience to
* form agreements one on one
* resolve relationships individual or in groups
* collectively establish consensual laws and understanding worldwide

And this does not require believing in a personified God as the source of this process.
We can still use the process to reach agreements in a growing consensus,
and can figure out the rest as we go. We may need to forgive our differences along the way in order to facilitate and further the process, instead of blocking it by fighting
over details that are not necessary to the larger process that doesn't depend on all that!

Thank you and I hope that all people here can coordinate this process,
first locally, and then after forming agreements between us how to proceed,
we can expand and help others to facilitate a consensus on laws, God, etc.
And it does not depend on changing or agreeing, but just working with
the systems and ways of thinking we already bring to the table. And that's enough.

How did man discover human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

So when someone figured out the wheel and how to use it, that was discovering human spiritual connection with something greater than self?

What is the conscience ? I think it is the voice of God within each of us. It helps us to know right from wrong and when we make a bad choice, it lets you know you have made a bad choice.

Is this conscience guiding our morals and is it the spiritual connection between God and man ?

If not,how do you explain the conscience ?

We already have a name for that it's called your conscience and we know where it comes from. It comes from your brain.

# 17 on things a theist might say: God is the universe/love/laws of physics/CONSCIENCE.

We already have names for these things. Redefining something as ‘god’ tells us nothing. To use the word ‘god’ implies a host of other attributes and if you don’t intend to apply those attributes, using the word is intentionally misleading.

“To call the world God is not to explain it; it is only to enrich our language with a superfluous synonym for the word ‘world’.” – Arthur Schopenhauer

Good! So let's use the given terms we have, and agree how to align them and use the communicate critical concepts and what are the key places or points to focus. Great!

 

[Boss]

The multiple big bang theory makes sense for a universe that has always existed and will always exist.

One Big Bang, or were there many? | Science | The Guardian

It is only speculation and is not scientific .there is no evidence to support this view.

BZZZT Wrong!

The Laws of Physics and the Math all support the theory of a cyclical universe. The more it is is explored the more sense it makes. So yes, there is evidence to support this theory.

BZZZT Wrong!

Stephen Hawking claims victory in gravitational wave bet | Science | theguardian.com

Hawking has claimed victory in a bet with a fellow scientist over the discovery of primordial gravitational waves, ripples in the structure of space-time from the birth of the universe.

The Cambridge cosmologist bet Neil Turok, director of the Perimeter Institute in Canada, that gravitational waves from the first fleeting moments after the big bang would be detected.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Hawking said the discovery of gravitational waves, announced on Monday by researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics, disproves Turok's theory that the universe cycles endlessly from one big bang to another.