Zone1 How Do I Help Lead a Gay Man to Repentance?

[Meriweather]

True, but if the church rejects all sinners, what is his purpose in the first place?

Think of it this way. Most churches welcome sinners, which is a good thing, because sinners we all are. However, in the end, it should not be sinners who walk out of church. The church is not there to keep us down in our sins no matter what those sins are. We want to be raised up.

Anyone ever go to church and tell the priest, rabbi, or minister, "Please make sure I walk out with all my sins intact."

 

[Road Runner]

Anyone ever go to church and tell the priest, rabbi, or minister, "Please make sure I walk out with all my sins intact."

No, but I WILL make sure that my breasts and female privates will be intact until the day I leave this planet.

 

[GMCGeneral]

True, but if the church rejects all sinners, what is his purpose in the first place?

It's not about rejecting sinners. It's anout bringing people to the Cross. Jesus Himself said as much TWICE!!!! It's that if a person rejects God's love and His gift of Eternal Life, then that person will never know Heaven.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Think of it this way. Most churches welcome sinners, which is a good thing, because sinners we all are. However, in the end, it should not be sinners who walk out of church. The church is not there to keep us down in our sins no matter what those sins are. We want to be raised up.

Anyone ever go to church and tell the priest, rabbi, or minister, "Please make sure I walk out with all my sins intact."

So you achieved a sinless state by going to church?

Not meaning to be offensive, I just want to know if there is a church that believes that?

I grew up a Baptist and watched my Baptist mom and my Baptist dad go to church only rarely, but smoke and drink beer every day, which was a sin in the Baptist religion. I thought drinking was a sin in every religion. I was briefly interested in the religion and started going to church on my own on Sundays, walking until I was old enough to drive.

But in college, I took up drinking to be social and for the enjoyment of the alcohol. I felt I could no longer go to church because I didn't care to be a hypocrit like my parents, dragging myself out of bed after a night of drinking to go to church and say amen, when the preacher excoriated drinkers.

If had known that there were Christian churches who were tolerant of drinking, I would have likely stayed in. In Round Rock, Texas, there is a church which is non-denomination, but seems similary to the Lutheran church, which takes a moderationist position. When my wife and I visited, they served mimosas and Bloody Marys to the guests.

Seems like a great way to attract new members who may not be so moderate on Saturday night. It would seem that steering that young man to a church that takes the same approace to homosexuality as it does heterosexuality, i.e. no sexual debauchery, but sex in a monogamous relationship not frowned on, rather than telling he is welcome but he must stop all sexual activity, or worse find an unsuspecting woman and try to "become straight" would bring more sinners to Jesus.

 

[buttercup]

Aleister approves

Heheh.

So true that a lot of people don't even realize they're espousing a satanist idea when they say things like "Do whatever you want."

In fact, ironically, often the very people who talk a lot about 'liberty' actually have no clue what true liberty is. But that's all I'm gonna say about that.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Would it be sinful for a woman to engage in sex outside marriage with a gay man who wants to change in order to help him with that goal?

Either a well-meaning amateur or a professional surrogate?

 

[Seymour Flops]

It's not about rejecting sinners. It's anout bringing people to the Cross. Jesus Himself said as much TWICE!!!! It's that if a person rejects God's love and His gift of Eternal Life, then that person will never know Heaven.

So your church would welcome all sinners?

I grew up Baptist and they claimed that they did, but I didn't get that impression. They talked about themselves being "sinners" but the only sins they admitted to were things like being tired and getting snitty with their wives, or momentarily feeling sorry for themselves instead of reminding themselves that suffering is part of God's plan, or skipping church for a Golf tournament seven years ago.

Other sins they would strongly condemn people for.

 

[Meriweather]

Seems like a great way to attract new members who may not be so moderate on Saturday night. It would seem that steering that young man to a church that takes the same approace to homosexuality as it does heterosexuality, i.e. no sexual debauchery, but sex in a monogamous relationship not frowned on, rather than telling he is welcome but he must stop all sexual activity, or worse find an unsuspecting woman and try to "become straight" would bring more sinners to Jesus.

I was raised in the Catholic church, and it was all things in moderation. It was a large family on a tight budget, so wine only on the big holidays.

We were taught the Commandments were not there to provide God with "Gotcha" moments. In fact, they were there for our benefit alone. There are both physical and emotional issues present even when homosexuality is widely accepted. I was once taught that with all sin it is like having a Beware of Quicksand" sign posted. Homosexuality has one of those signs, and it is not the job of the church to take down the sign. It is the responsibility of the Church to point to the ideal.

What we are seeing in society today is an attitude of, "But I don't care for the ideal, and I am willing to settle for second best." Not that for a moment I think they should be unwelcome--or less welcome--in church. They, too, have their cross to bear. Still, the Church must still point to the ideal, it is the reason it exists.

Personally, I think mankind has--once again--elected to make their genitals their guiding force. It has now gotten to the point that children are now being encouraged to focus on getting rid of, or changing, their genitals like genitalia is meant to be the focus and deciding factor of living one's life. It is no long who they want to be, what they want to accomplish-it's, "But... what do my genitals want?"

The Church may be the last place that stands for something greater than pleasing our genitals.