How do I know you're not serious about the gun debate?

[JoeB131]

5. America Constitution is the biggest problem for those like you and Japan does not offer the same freedoms and protection, so they can deny their citizens where those like you have to get the House, Senate, The President and a Super Majority of the States to change the Constitution which will never happen.

Actually, we don't need to rewrite the Militia Amendment. All we need to do is enact laws that hold the gun industry responsible.

The first thing I'd do is repeal that law that holds gun sellers immune to the crimes committed by their products. Betcha they start screening who they sell to after that!

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

So as you attempt to compare the two societies they are Apples and Oranges and no Japanese nor Norwegian societies would work here seeing America is the third largest populated country in the world with Fifty States and is a damn melting pot!

I know you will disagree but when you have a melting pot society like America has, well you will have problems...

Here's the main difference.

America lets average citizens own guns.

Japan has banned private gun ownership since the Meiji Restoration (when they got sick of people raising private armies).

The Japanese are more like us that we care to admit. The should be, they've spent the last 100+ years trying to be us.

To try to blame melting pots or video games for the problem is just silly.

We have a problem because we've decided that gun ownership is a "right" like voting or freedom of speech, which means that we've put a very high hurdle into taking that "right" away.

And we get exactly the result we got on Feb. 14. Someone who everyone agrees now should not have been able to get a gun was able to get several, and killed a lot of people.

Again Japan is a Island Nation and is a lot smaller in population than us and no the Japanese culture is not like the American culture...

They may try to be like us in some ways but tradition is strong in their society where it is lacking in America.

Also America is a mixture of cultures and not just Japanese.

Also your argument is the private citizen does not need firearms to live in this country, well I can tell you the rural population need them.

Why?

Simple, I live in Texas where wild boar ruin land and coyotes and wild dogs can kill your livestock.

Now you will tell me to call the local police or animal control but in some places it is a hour away before they can get there.

So what do I do?

Well according to you I should not have my shotguns ( pump action and single shot ) and should my land and animals be destroyed.

Then living in some rural parts of Texas you have to deal with Cartels and Mexican Gangs that want to use your land.

Now you would again say call the local authorities, and again you might have to wait an hour and by then those Cartel Members or Gangs have killed you.

Now I know in your urban simple minded way you do not care about rural America ( which is why Trump got elected ) but guns are a tool for protection and no matter how much you disagree they will be part of life.

So as you try to shame gun owners for owning a tool to protect themselves from many things in life, well thank God you are not in power to change things because you would get innocent people killed more than what have been killed so far.

 

[KGB]

Here's the problem with that. The gun lobby wants crazy people to have guns. It wouldn't be hard to create a system where law-abiding citizens can own guns after they undergo a thorough background check. Germany has gun ownership, about one gun for every five citizens. What they don't have is gun ownership as a "right", where it becomes incumbant upon the government to show why you shouldn't have a gun, not on you to show why you can be trusted with one.

I would love to see a direct quote from Wayne LaPierre to substantiate that claim. It is a right whether you want to admit to it or not.

Except that between the writing of the constitution, and Heller in 2010, the interpretation that the Second was about Militias, and the government had a right to regulate weapons, was the accepted interpretation. Even the NRA thought so until the crazies took it over in the 1970's.

DC vs Heller established the interpretation, it didn’t recreate it. In it, it states the right was pre-existing, meaning enumerated. So again, you are wrong.

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

5. America Constitution is the biggest problem for those like you and Japan does not offer the same freedoms and protection, so they can deny their citizens where those like you have to get the House, Senate, The President and a Super Majority of the States to change the Constitution which will never happen.

Actually, we don't need to rewrite the Militia Amendment. All we need to do is enact laws that hold the gun industry responsible.

The first thing I'd do is repeal that law that holds gun sellers immune to the crimes committed by their products. Betcha they start screening who they sell to after that!

You can not hold a gun manfacture guilty for what someone does with their product.

Those like you should put the blame on the individual and parents ( if it is the kid that did the shooting ) because they are at fault for what happen, but hey how can you blame the criminal for what they do, right?

Criminals do not obey laws and if they did, well then no one would murder people would they?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

So you do not want to debate but instead dictate...

The fact is you are one of those that want to tell society what they should think and listening to the opinions of others is not allow unless it support your opinion.

I am pretty sure you are one of those that believe the No-Fly list is a great idea to deny someone their constitutional right while never realizing that same list once had Ted Kennedy on it and is hard as hell to get removed from, and is easy to get on.

So tell me what law do you believe criminals will obey and how much of Big Brother do you need to feel safe daily?

Yawn, guy, I don't have to worry about the government shooting me as i go about my daily business. I'm white.

(Of course, people of color shouldn't have to deal with that bullshit, either, but that's another discussion.)

I do worry some nut is going to shoot up my workplace or shopping mall or a movie I happen to be seeing because that kind of stuff happens all too often in this country.

The No Fly list was a great idea! 17 years since 9/11, we haven't had another hijacking since then, have we? It doesn't happen because the airline industry stopped fighting security measures. They actually realized one disaster was worse for them than the profits they'd lose making sure it didn't happen.

The gun industry, on the other hand, thrives on tragedy. The more gun crime you have, the more that 3% of people compensating for tiny peckers want more guns. They have no interest in reducing it.

Again it is easy to get on that list and hard as hell to get off unless you are a Senator...

Also it is not your constitutional right to fly and you can be deny, but under the Constitution you have the right to bear arms and the USSC has upheld the right.

So using a faulty list to ban people from a right the Constitution grants them is a non-starter for me and to say " well they have not hijacked planes since " well that is because flying is a privilege and not a right protected by the Constitution!

 

[Mac1958]

If you use any of the following terms or language ...

1. Calling a semi-automatic pistol or rifle 'weapon of mass destruction'.

2. You claim right to self-defense and children's lives are mutually exclusive.

3. You try re-writing the text of the 2nd Amendment to your own personal interpretation.

4. You confuse hunting with self-defense.

5. You believe that not having the right to have personal nuclear weapons, artillery, or land mines for self-defense logically extends to personal firearms.

6. Refer to semi-automatic weapons as 'military-grade' or 'machine-guns'.

7. Ever use the term 'assault rifle' to refer to an over the counter firearm.


That kind of emotive language will immediately signal to whomever you're trying to convince on the other side that your agenda is confiscation and you're perfectly willing to ride the coattails of any tragedy you can find to accomplish that.

I wonder about this on pretty much every topic. The answer? This is the way we communicate now.

Hyperbole, straw man arguments, personal insults, name-calling, distortion, deflection and outright lies.

On pretty much any topic. This is how we do it.

I wonder why so little is getting done. Gosh!
.

You, Sir, are worse than Hitler.

And for the record, it's clear that we're not serious about really dealing with our gun issue, because still no one is talking about a popular culture that is in decay and CLEARLY contributing to the violence. Movies, video games, music, teevee, the internet and (probably most important) a willingness to turn a blind eye to it all and pretend there's nothing there.

I would probably be more comfortable with some kind of increased gun regulation than you; but it's obvious that the press sees a lot of political advantage here and is running with the meme that will most effectively advance its political agenda.
.

Tried to bring up the cultural issue and media in this thread.
Breaking News - Arrest in Orono, Mn. Social media threat against school.
The silence is very telling.
People really can't handle the "why" they claim to want answers to. The media is manipulating the discussion to one issue, that it's just guns.
Edit to add, there are at least 20 threads running on the shooting and guns.

Absolutely. The press senses significant political advantage here, and they're not going to let this go.

As a result, the Right is on the defensive and stuck trying to defend its relationship the NRA, which is EXACTLY that the press wants.

We are CHOOSING to ignore the huge role the culture is playing here, because there is no political advantage in it.
.

 

[petro]

And here we go again.
Right to the guns.

Pathetic

 

[Flash]

[Q
Here's the problem with that. The gun lobby wants crazy people to have guns.

Statements like this is when I know you are a confused Moon Bat.

If anybody wants crazy people to have guns then you have to conclude it was the Democrats when they voted down the Grassely Cruz bill that would have strengthened the mental health reporting data base of NICS.
.

 

[MisterBeale]

Once again, I've triggered opposite sides of the same coin, on the same thread.

Thanks guys, as always, for illustrating my sig.

You mean everyone hates you because you are a pompous ass?

Yes. Yes, they do. But it really doesn't mean you've won any arguments.

It just means you are good at trolling.

"Strange times are those in which we live, forsooth,
When old and young are taught in falsehood’s school,
And the one man that dares to tell the truth
Is called at once a lunatic and fool."

~ People's independent candidate for President in 1872,
George Francis Train

 

[MisterBeale]

So you do not want to debate but instead dictate...

The fact is you are one of those that want to tell society what they should think and listening to the opinions of others is not allow unless it support your opinion.

I am pretty sure you are one of those that believe the No-Fly list is a great idea to deny someone their constitutional right while never realizing that same list once had Ted Kennedy on it and is hard as hell to get removed from, and is easy to get on.

So tell me what law do you believe criminals will obey and how much of Big Brother do you need to feel safe daily?

Yawn, guy, I don't have to worry about the government shooting me as i go about my daily business. I'm white.

(Of course, people of color shouldn't have to deal with that bullshit, either, but that's another discussion.)

I do worry some nut is going to shoot up my workplace or shopping mall or a movie I happen to be seeing because that kind of stuff happens all too often in this country.

The No Fly list was a great idea! 17 years since 9/11, we haven't had another hijacking since then, have we? It doesn't happen because the airline industry stopped fighting security measures. They actually realized one disaster was worse for them than the profits they'd lose making sure it didn't happen.

The gun industry, on the other hand, thrives on tragedy. The more gun crime you have, the more that 3% of people compensating for tiny peckers want more guns. They have no interest in reducing it.

"I do worry some nut is going to shoot up my workplace or shopping mall or a movie I happen to be seeing because that kind of stuff happens all too often in this country."

Statistically? No, it doesn't. You have more chance of drowning in your bathtub or getting killed in a car accident. Stop watching so much TV and quit worrying.

 

[hazlnut]

3. You try re-writing the text of the 2nd Amendment to your own personal interpretation.

Oh, the irony... the mouth foaming cries of "shall not infringe"

Here's how Scalia saw it:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.



Care to comment?


What I see is a whole lot of people who don't believe the constitution, specifically Article III. We already have a very effective means of protecting civil rights including the 2nd Amendment. It's called the Judiciary branch.

And then there's this perverse hypocrisy that goes on with both sides of the political spectrum, calling any decision they don't agree with Judicial Activism. When the same judge a week later hands down something they're okay with, they say nothing. How convenient! Mike Huckabee calling SCOTUS "unelected attorneys" after the gay marriage ruling, but he won't say shit when they uphold religious freedom.... FUCKING HYPOCRITE.

Either you believe in America, our checks and balances, the outcome of a rigorous and thoughtful review of a law, or you don't. And if you don't believe in the ability of the courts to protect your rights, then maybe this is not the country for you. Because the system we have is pretty ingenious.


The 2nd Amendment is not in danger... never has been. Heller proved that.

Now shut-up and let the smart people figure out how to make things safer.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

If you use any of the following terms or language ...

1. Calling a semi-automatic pistol or rifle 'weapon of mass destruction'.

2. You claim right to self-defense and children's lives are mutually exclusive.

3. You try re-writing the text of the 2nd Amendment to your own personal interpretation.

4. You confuse hunting with self-defense.

5. You believe that not having the right to have personal nuclear weapons, artillery, or land mines for self-defense logically extends to personal firearms.

6. Refer to semi-automatic weapons as 'military-grade' or 'machine-guns'.

7. Ever use the term 'assault rifle' to refer to an over the counter firearm.


That kind of emotive language will immediately signal to whomever you're trying to convince on the other side that your agenda is confiscation and you're perfectly willing to ride the coattails of any tragedy you can find to accomplish that.

Using the word clip instead of magazine. Big red flag jumps out.

 

[yiostheoy]

If you use any of the following terms or language ...

1. Calling a semi-automatic pistol or rifle 'weapon of mass destruction'.

2. You claim right to self-defense and children's lives are mutually exclusive.

3. You try re-writing the text of the 2nd Amendment to your own personal interpretation.

4. You confuse hunting with self-defense.

5. You believe that not having the right to have personal nuclear weapons, artillery, or land mines for self-defense logically extends to personal firearms.

6. Refer to semi-automatic weapons as 'military-grade' or 'machine-guns'.

7. Ever use the term 'assault rifle' to refer to an over the counter firearm.


That kind of emotive language will immediately signal to whomever you're trying to convince on the other side that your agenda is confiscation and you're perfectly willing to ride the coattails of any tragedy you can find to accomplish that.

You're not a bad Israeli after all fncceo !!

Interestingly, there are only 3 truly free Nations on this Earth --

1 - Switzerland

2 - USA

3 - Israel.

They all employ some form of militia system for their citizens.

None of the other 192 does.

 

[toobfreak]

Not worth the time wasted on idiots like you.

I know, you'd just dig yourself in deeper with dumb analogies.

You're an idiot who has never even talked to the NRA and doesn't know the first thing about them. WHY DON'T YOU CALL UP THEIR NUMBER AND TELL THEM YOU THINK THEY ARE A HATE GROUP PROMOTING SCHOOL DEATHS? Then report back to us. 1-800-672-3888

I'm sure whatever tool they have answering the phone would just hang up on me when I did. I'm not interested in talking to the National Rampage Association.

Just as I thought you would do if challenged--- blink. Attack something you never have had any actually personal contact or experience with all the while silencing them from even offering you their side of the issue in their own defense to eliminate any chance you might find out you are mistaken. YOU'RE JUST ANOTHER TYPICAL- HATE-FILLED PHONY BULLSHIT DOUBLE-TALKING LIBERAL COWARD. All talk, no action, like a school shooter, you only go after the defenseless. Isn't it so easy to go after those silenced from having a voice against your charges? It is so easy to blame a few pounds of steel, rather than the real problem: THE PEOPLE and INSTITUTIONS which both attract these killers over and over and over without change or solution or the very people actually doing the killing.

Since all these shootings started getting crazy in the 1990s, what has the DEA or schools across America really done to address it? If someone trips on a crack in my sidewalk on my property, I get sued, yet these schools leave themselves open to slaughter with no means to stop or defend themselves and no one thinks to sue THEM?

Guns cannot be banished from the country, at best they can be made harder for the youngest of use to go out and buy, and that might help a little all the while hurting far more, but that won't have any effect on such mental and dangerous people who will still seek out means to carry out their anger. They'll find a gun some other way or something else to carry out their rage until the real problem is finally adressed.

 

[BlackSand]

It didn’t take long for this conversation to take a sewer dive.

That's when a decent sense of humor needs to start splitting duties between the tool box and first aid kit ...

.

 

[JoeB131]

So as you attempt to compare the two societies they are Apples and Oranges and no Japanese nor Norwegian societies would work here seeing America is the third largest populated country in the world with Fifty States and is a damn melting pot!

I know you will disagree but when you have a melting pot society like America has, well you will have problems...

Here's the main difference.

America lets average citizens own guns.

Japan has banned private gun ownership since the Meiji Restoration (when they got sick of people raising private armies).

The Japanese are more like us that we care to admit. The should be, they've spent the last 100+ years trying to be us.

To try to blame melting pots or video games for the problem is just silly.

We have a problem because we've decided that gun ownership is a "right" like voting or freedom of speech, which means that we've put a very high hurdle into taking that "right" away.

And we get exactly the result we got on Feb. 14. Someone who everyone agrees now should not have been able to get a gun was able to get several, and killed a lot of people.

Again Japan is a Island Nation and is a lot smaller in population than us and no the Japanese culture is not like the American culture...

They may try to be like us in some ways but tradition is strong in their society where it is lacking in America.

Also America is a mixture of cultures and not just Japanese.

Also your argument is the private citizen does not need firearms to live in this country, well I can tell you the rural population need them.

Why?

Simple, I live in Texas where wild boar ruin land and coyotes and wild dogs can kill your livestock.

Now you will tell me to call the local police or animal control but in some places it is a hour away before they can get there.

So what do I do?

Well according to you I should not have my shotguns ( pump action and single shot ) and should my land and animals be destroyed.

Then living in some rural parts of Texas you have to deal with Cartels and Mexican Gangs that want to use your land.

Now you would again say call the local authorities, and again you might have to wait an hour and by then those Cartel Members or Gangs have killed you.

Now I know in your urban simple minded way you do not care about rural America ( which is why Trump got elected ) but guns are a tool for protection and no matter how much you disagree they will be part of life.

So as you try to shame gun owners for owning a tool to protect themselves from many things in life, well thank God you are not in power to change things because you would get innocent people killed more than what have been killed so far.

You are right, I don't care about the inbreds who live in the rural areas.

But eventually, the 78% of us who own guns are going to get fed up with the shit from the 22 who own them....

 

[JoeB131]

Just as I thought you would do if challenged--- blink. Attack something you never have had any actually personal contact or experience with all the while silencing them from even offering you their side of the issue in their own defense to eliminate any chance you might find out you are mistaken. YOU'RE JUST ANOTHER TYPICAL- HATE-FILLED PHONY BULLSHIT DOUBLE-TALKING LIBERAL COWARD. All talk, no action, like a school shooter, you only go after the defenseless. Isn't it so easy to go after those silenced from having a voice against your charges? It is so easy to blame a few pounds of steel, rather than the real problem: THE PEOPLE and INSTITUTIONS which both attract these killers over and over and over without change or solution or the very people actually doing the killing.

Guy, you are babbling. While it might be satisfying to yell at whoever is answering the phones at the National Rampage Association, it's not useful.

Passing sensible laws, that's useful.

Since all these shootings started getting crazy in the 1990s, what has the DEA or schools across America really done to address it? If someone trips on a crack in my sidewalk on my property, I get sued, yet these schools leave themselves open to slaughter with no means to stop or defend themselves and no one thinks to sue THEM?

I think we need to sue the guys who sell machine guns to people like Nick Cruz. But Congress specifically exempted them after a jury found the people who sold guns to the DC Snipers liable.

Guns cannot be banished from the country, at best they can be made harder for the youngest of use to go out and buy, and that might help a little all the while hurting far more, but that won't have any effect on such mental and dangerous people who will still seek out means to carry out their anger. They'll find a gun some other way or something else to carry out their rage until the real problem is finally adressed.

Sure, Guns can be banished. The Japanese did it. The British did it. The Australians did it.

 

[JoeB131]

Interestingly, there are only 3 truly free Nations on this Earth --

1 - Switzerland

2 - USA

3 - Israel.

They all employ some form of militia system for their citizens.

None of the other 192 does.

If you think that the Zionist Entity, a country with a horendous policy of abusing the civil rights of its indigenous population, is free, you are seriously fucked up in the head. And I truly mean that.

For the US, we lock up 2 million people and our police routinely shoot people in the street. We are hardly a free country.

 

[fncceo]

You're not a bad Israeli after all fncceo !!

A credit to my race? One of the 'good' Jews?

Sweet of you to say.

 

[fncceo]

Using the word clip instead of magazine. Big red flag jumps out.