How do people survive on minimum wage?

[JoeNormal]

OK. I'll try asking you. What should minimum wage be?

Mike

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

And when did the primary purpose of the minimum wage become "keeping people above squalor"? Why is that anyone's responsibility to worry about OTHER than the worker himself?

Could have sworn the minimum wage started to keep companies from colluding in underpricing labor and cheating workers. Now, apparently, it's to mandate an arbitrary standard of living, irregardless of the actual value of the labor being performed.

We've discussed this in this thread already. I don't want to rehash quite so soon.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Don't be ridiculous, I am only remarking that the working class regularly and defenselessly absorb loss in a big way but are too often denied a share in the growth they helped create. Take these two together and our work force is steadily headed downhill economically with debt the only stopgap measure available. Stop this bottom-to-middle wage slide and then talk of removing the bottom.

How does a dishwasher or janitor or cashier 'help to create'?

Now if I CHOOSE with my FREEDOM to boost the employees who have given supreme effort with a salary increase, bonus, or share of the profits... that is one thing... to state that even the lowest level of employee must or should increase in earnings because the top of the business is increasing theirs, is ridiculous

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

No, because his survival is HIS concern, not yours. That job should pay whatever you can get someone to do it correctly for, because YOUR concern, as a business owner, is getting the job done right for the least amount of money.

If employers start setting wages based on "compassion" for what their employees "need to live", rather than setting them based on what the job is actually worth to the employer, they're going to go out of business and the employees they "care" so much about are going to be unemployed.

 

[Too Tall]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

That person could very well get government assistance towards food, healthcare, housing, energy, etc.,

all paid for by the taxpayer.

In other words, the corporation gets cheap labor at an unlivable wage, and we the taxpayers pay a subsidy to that working person, towards livability (if that's a word).

It's one more way the corporations screw you.

Hell yea, and she could get a roommate who can get the same benefits and they now have more disposable income than many middle class income people who are paying the taxes.

 

[koshergrl]

---(They don't they just exist after 3 years they become zombies)----

Article> One of my clients recently reported getting a job at a fast-food restaurant. Since she's been unemployed and desperately looking for work for nearly a year, I was thrilled for her. She was very excited that she'll be making $7.50 an hour -– a whole quarter more than minimum wage.



After she left my office, I got out a calculator. I've never worked for minimum wage, so I didn't know exactly how much -- or how little -- money that is.



Assuming 80 hours per pay period, my client will be bringing home around $462 every two weeks. That's with no health insurance or retirement contributions.



If I brought home $924 a month, would I even be able to survive? I decided to find out.

read more How do people survive on minimum wage?- MSN Money

There's the first problem right there. People getting by on minwage jobs do not work 80 hours every 2 weeks. They work 80hrs every week. Minimum. I knew a guy, a Thai immigrant, who worked a day job, a night job, and a weekend job. So double that to over $1800/mo. Yeah, you can get by on that.
Second, the number of heads of households who work min wage jobs is miniscule. Holders of such jobs are typically married women returning to the workforce, teenagers, people living with others who are earning money.
Finally, very few people stay at min wage. As they develop skills and experience they increase their pay scales dramatically.
Of course if you increase the min wage you do away with jobs like that, and make it harder for people to get on the ladder. This is why black teen unemployment is over 40%.

And that is how it has always been.

People who got ahead during the industrial revolution worked 20 hour days.

When my mom was a single mother, she worked 3 jobs at minimum wage to make ends meet.

People seem to think we shouldn't have to work hard to get ahead. Sorry, more fool you....you aren't going to get ahead on minimum wage. You might be able to pay your rent. Probably it won't be enough to pay rent, cable, electricity, and your car payment.

So get rid of the cable, trade the car for a beater, and get another job.

 

[JoeNormal]

How does a dishwasher or janitor or cashier 'help to create'?

Now if I CHOOSE with my FREEDOM to boost the employees who have given supreme effort with a salary increase, bonus, or share of the profits... that is one thing... to state that even the lowest level of employee must or should increase in earnings because the top of the business is increasing theirs, is ridiculous

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

No, because his survival is HIS concern, not yours. That job should pay whatever you can get someone to do it correctly for, because YOUR concern, as a business owner, is getting the job done right for the least amount of money.

If employers start setting wages based on "compassion" for what their employees "need to live", rather than setting them based on what the job is actually worth to the employer, they're going to go out of business and the employees they "care" so much about are going to be unemployed.

If a company requires slave labor to stay in business then fuck 'em. They don't deserve to continue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

You're kidding, right?

I am, right at this moment, paying nothing whatsoever for my Internet usage. I'm sitting in a Starbucks, using THEIR Internet connection. If I didn't have a laptop, I would be sitting in a public library, using their computer and Internet connection; or possibly a community center, of which my city boasts several.

I will never understand why people believe THEY are the only ones who have figured out that life is hard for poor people. The difference is that while they respond to that knowledge by wringing their hands and crying for the hopelessness of the poor, others see it as an opportunity to do something.

 

[Inthemiddle]

You're kidding, right?

I am, right at this moment, paying nothing whatsoever for my Internet usage. I'm sitting in a Starbucks, using THEIR Internet connection.

How do you afford Starbucks on welfare?

 

[koshergrl]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

No, because his survival is HIS concern, not yours. That job should pay whatever you can get someone to do it correctly for, because YOUR concern, as a business owner, is getting the job done right for the least amount of money.

If employers start setting wages based on "compassion" for what their employees "need to live", rather than setting them based on what the job is actually worth to the employer, they're going to go out of business and the employees they "care" so much about are going to be unemployed.

If a company requires slave labor to stay in business then fuck 'em. They don't deserve to continue.

That's right, punish them by refusing to work!

That'll set them straight!

I promise you, there are people willing to work hard for almost nothing, because they will do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead.

And it takes hard work and a lot of BS.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think this question has implications in the world of finance today. It's been de-regulated to the point where the banks and Wall Street can do some criminally stupid things. The problem is, if they fail, they would take the world economy with them. So we have little choice but to bail them out. Where we have failed is that the guys who were responsible should have been dragged from their homes and offices and shot in the head.

A society that is constantly stuck in a dog-eat-dog mode where few prosper greatly and many fail is not a very stable one. Is that really what we want to aspire to?

Dodge:

I think you cannot answer the fucking question, and I'm leaning toward believing that you mightn't be bright enough to survive without a nanny

I've been a successful engineer for 20+ years. As I said before, minimum wage hasn't been on my radar for about 30 years. But unlike you freedom-loving 'real Americans', I can see beyond myself.

Why don't you tell me why you're not 6 months away from becoming a Walmart greeter.

Oh, God save us from the do-gooders who are proudly "seeing beyond themselves" and determined to "help" others, never mind that one can always tell those others by the hunted, harried expressions on their faces.

 

[koshergrl]

Really? Why do you think that? I think people who sit around and post here ought to get a milliondollars a year. I think I ought to be declared King of the U.S and have people bow down to me when I walk.
It's stupid.
People get paid what they are worth. Employers compete for employees as much as employees compete for jobs. Why does anyone want to short circuit that arrangement?

How do you afford internet on welfare?

You're kidding, right?

I am, right at this moment, paying nothing whatsoever for my Internet usage. I'm sitting in a Starbucks, using THEIR Internet connection. If I didn't have a laptop, I would be sitting in a public library, using their computer and Internet connection; or possibly a community center, of which my city boasts several.

I will never understand why people believe THEY are the only ones who have figured out that life is hard for poor people. The difference is that while they respond to that knowledge by wringing their hands and crying for the hopelessness of the poor, others see it as an opportunity to do something.

Yup.

I spoke with a woman who is 6 months pregnant today...complaining that she invited a bunch of family to come stay with her, and she fed them using her foodstamps, and then they left, and now her foodstamps are out, and she wanted more foodstamps.

She doesn't work.

What would you do?

I know what I would do. I'd get my pregnant ass down to McDonald's and beg them for a job, and refuse to leave until I got one. I would walk to the workforce, get online, and fill out applications for every job within a 100-mile radius..if I DIDN'T have a car, and across the flipping country if I did, and see what shakes loose.

As a matter of fact, I did exactly that when I was 5 months pregnant...I had a baby at home, I was pregnant, my significant other was an unreliable and abusive douchebag...so I trotted my ass down to the employment department and took the first job that presented itself...

Direct care for diminished capacity sex offenders. Full time, starting the next day. I worked up to the day the baby was born, and went back three days after.

I was program manager in a year.

You do what you have to. You don't sneer at employers because you're too good to work for them.

You sneer at them LATER, when you don't need them any more.

 

[koshergrl]

And I hid my pregnancy for two months after I got hired, btw. Everybody just thought I was fat, lol.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I promise you, there are people willing to work hard for almost nothing, because they will do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead.

And there are always people willing to suck dick for a job because they are willing to do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead. Doesn't mean that the rest of society should tolerate that kind of behavior.

 

[koshergrl]

I had to participate in a physical holds training for one of our more violent clients a few days before I popped.

It was flipping hilarious. I was immense, rolling around on the ground learning how to restrain a client who kicked, bit, head butted, spit and punched.

 

[koshergrl]

I promise you, there are people willing to work hard for almost nothing, because they will do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead.

And there are always people willing to suck dick for a job because they are willing to do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead. Doesn't mean that the rest of society should tolerate that kind of behavior.

Well maybe you would suck dick. More power to you, that's probably what it takes to convince anyone to hire you.

That's where I draw the line, though.

 

[Inthemiddle]

So KG's solutions for life are as follows:

1) Deceive employer to get a job
2) Trespass on private property if someone doesn't give you a job
3) Abandon newborn baby or leave it with unreliable/abusive douche bag
4) Be willing to suck dick if someone else will
5) Endanger life of unborn child by partaking in risky physical activities


Yeah, that's the ticket. *rolls eyes*

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wages have not increased at pace with the cost of living in this country. Low wages are systemic.

You fail.

Oh crap. Okay, now that you announce that I "fail", I guess you've "won". You've talked me into it. I now agree with you so much that I'll contribute to the cause. From here on in, I'll support a new movement, but it needs to have a name:

"LOW WAGE WORKERS - FUCK IT, WHY BOTHER?"

DON'T put in any extra effort at work, trying to get a promotion to improve your place in life. Only rich kids get promoted. Fuck it, why bother?

DON'T burn time taking any classes or training that would improve your skills. Only rich kids with connections get good jobs, you should know that. Fuck it, why bother?

DON'T work more than one job to increase your income and maybe put a few bucks aside to pay off bills or for additional schooling or training. You don't have a chance anyway. Fuck it, why bother?

DON'T think that it takes hard work, sacrifice and discipline to build a good life. You have no chance. You are a victim. Someone else is taking advantage of you. Fuck it, why bother?

DON'T, under ANY circumstances, pay ANY attention to those who are putting in the extra effort - the single working moms, the college students working multiple jobs and carrying a full class load, the husbands coming home from a hard day at work to study for their course. That's all bullshit, lies perpetrated by the rich to hurt you. Fuck it, why bother?


Thanks LoneLaugher, I have seen the light since your announcement that I "failed". A low wage is, indeed, permanent and cannot be changed. Boy, those folks are FUCKED.

.

That is all bullshit you know....Very few low income workers do what you said. Some welfare queens and kings do though.

Sarcasm's a bit hard for you, huh? No one was saying low-income workers do this. The poster's point is that LONE LAUGHER and his compatriots are basically suggesting that they should. The one thing that screams loud and clear from this thread is that the liberal message to the poor is "Abandon Hope!"

 

[Inthemiddle]

The one thing that screams loud and clear from this thread is that the liberal message to the poor is "Abandon Hope!"

Actually, the liberal message has been "Embrace hope you can believe in." It's been the conservative message to abandon hope.

 

[bripat9643]

You guys are apparently too stupid to realize that once an economy crashes, it can be YEARS if ever before it comes back.

Only when Democrats are in charge, and they try to fix it.

And since your idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do whatever benefits only them over the extreme short term, it becomes virtually certain that the crash WILL come.

Government has caused every economic downturn we've ever had.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Man! There are so many impressive conservatives here! I can hardly stand it. Every one of them has pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps! What American heroes!

And what does it make YOU, when you clearly view it as so unusual and suspicious that people achieve in life by working their way up the ladder from the bottom rung?

 

[zeke]

Steph if minimum wage went to 8 dollars an hour on 2.2% of the work force, would employers be forced to raise their prices on goods and services? If so, why?

Just curious.


And the idea of "personal responsibiltiy" is so cool for poor people. When do the rich have to practice it?
You know, like the rich guys in the banking industry that tanked the economy. Where was their "personal responsibiltiy"?
Don't be such a dumbass, please. While MW workers are a tiny percentage of the workforce - and they are - the companies that employ them tend to employ quite a lot of them. And whether YOU consider them to be "forced" to pass the increased cost of labor on to customers or not, they WILL do so regardless.

Mighty strange answer there Steph. So what business employs lots of minimum wage workers I ask.
I say it's the fast food industry. Steph, are you concerned that your hamburger might cost you more if the minimum wage workers was paid more? I understand. You eat lots of hamburgers?

2.3% of the work force, concentrated in the fast food industry making minimum wage. If they got 8 dollars an hour, it would help them and shouldn't make a Big Mac any more of a waste of money than it is now.