How do people survive on minimum wage?

[Cecilie1200]

Steph if minimum wage went to 8 dollars an hour on 2.2% of the work force, would employers be forced to raise their prices on goods and services? If so, why?

Just curious.


And the idea of "personal responsibiltiy" is so cool for poor people. When do the rich have to practice it?
You know, like the rich guys in the banking industry that tanked the economy. Where was their "personal responsibiltiy"?

Don't be such a dumbass, please. While MW workers are a tiny percentage of the workforce - and they are - the companies that employ them tend to employ quite a lot of them. And whether YOU consider them to be "forced" to pass the increased cost of labor on to customers or not, they WILL do so regardless.

Gee, perhaps if YOU leftist dipshits quit whining about "too big to fail" and "we need bailouts to save jobs!", that personal responsibility for bad business decisions would come back. But no, you want to pretend that it's US who want to shield the rich from the consequences of their actions. Nice try. We're not the ones who think it's the government's job to intervene in the natural flow of the economy every time someone thinks it might be unpleasant.

Companies who employ minimum wage workers also do not really expect their low end people to stay in those positions long term. They either are promoted and their pay increased proportionately based on their increasing value to the business or they are given opportunity to develop a work ethic and references and most likely some marketable skills to prepare themselves for better jobs as those become available. The person who is working in however humble conditions is generally going to be much more attractive to potential employers than is the person who has been unemployed for long periods.

You are correct. Employers with low-wage jobs either expect to eventually promote those workers to better jobs with the company, or they expect to have a high turnover as those employees gain experience and move on to other places. (Fast food, the perennial example of low-wage jobs, is also an example of a type of employer who expects a high turnover rate in its employees.)

 

[Cecilie1200]

Steph if minimum wage went to 8 dollars an hour on 2.2% of the work force, would employers be forced to raise their prices on goods and services? If so, why?

Just curious.


And the idea of "personal responsibiltiy" is so cool for poor people. When do the rich have to practice it?
You know, like the rich guys in the banking industry that tanked the economy. Where was their "personal responsibiltiy"?

Don't be such a dumbass, please. While MW workers are a tiny percentage of the workforce - and they are - the companies that employ them tend to employ quite a lot of them. And whether YOU consider them to be "forced" to pass the increased cost of labor on to customers or not, they WILL do so regardless.

Gee, perhaps if YOU leftist dipshits quit whining about "too big to fail" and "we need bailouts to save jobs!", that personal responsibility for bad business decisions would come back. But no, you want to pretend that it's US who want to shield the rich from the consequences of their actions. Nice try. We're not the ones who think it's the government's job to intervene in the natural flow of the economy every time someone thinks it might be unpleasant.

You guys are apparently too stupid to realize that once an economy crashes, it can be YEARS if ever before it comes back. And since your idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do whatever benefits only them over the extreme short term, it becomes virtually certain that the crash WILL come.

No, we realize that economic recovery takes time. What we ALSO realize, which you don't get, is that government interference doesn't really mitigate that. All it accomplishes is to spread the pain out over the extended length of time it takes for the economy to recover. It's like the difference between ripping a band-aid off, and picking it off slowly. In the end, you're better off gritting your teeth and accepting the more intense short-term pain.

Am I supposed to somehow be ashamed that "my idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do what benefits them"? Because I'm actually quite proud of not advocating that people do things against their own best interests to serve my agenda. And no, capitalism is not what causes crashes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No I don't. Wages have not increased at pace with the cost of living in this country. Low wages are systemic.

You fail.

Wrong.

Do you understand the difference between "wages haven't increased" and "people haven't increased their incomes"? No, of course you don't, because you think all income is something that someone just gives you, randomly and on a whim, unconnected to anything you do.

It is probably quite true that I could get a job at a fast food restaurant today, and in a year, the starting pay for that job would be exactly the same, because "wages haven't increased". But I would not be making the same amount, because I would have increased my income, either by getting a raise, moving up to a better job (shift leader, possibly), or taking my year of experience and moving to another restaurant that pays better, perhaps one where the customers routinely leave tips.

If you want to insist that "things have changed" and low wages are no longer temporary, THAT is what you are going to have to argue with, not "wages haven't increased".

This is an interesting accusation. Care to tell me how you came to that conclusion?

Reading your posts.

Why is it an eternal source of shock to leftists that people assign meaning to the words that emit from their headholes, and learn something about what sort of people they are and how they think by analyzing those meanings?

It's called "communication", Mensa Boy, and it's sort of the point of all that verbal squawking you do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's been almost 30 years since I made minimum wage so I have only a vague idea. I suspect it would take about $10/hr to keep a human in anything above squalor.

And when did the primary purpose of the minimum wage become "keeping people above squalor"? Why is that anyone's responsibility to worry about OTHER than the worker himself?

Could have sworn the minimum wage started to keep companies from colluding in underpricing labor and cheating workers. Now, apparently, it's to mandate an arbitrary standard of living, irregardless of the actual value of the labor being performed.

We've discussed this in this thread already. I don't want to rehash quite so soon.

Rehash? I'm still waiting for you to provide a real answer for the FIRST time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Companies will do whatever they can to lower costs and increase profits. Automation is popular yet somehow, you still need those pesky human beings to do a lot of what needs to be done. I think if it takes a human being to do a certain job, that job should pay enough to allow him to survive.

No, because his survival is HIS concern, not yours. That job should pay whatever you can get someone to do it correctly for, because YOUR concern, as a business owner, is getting the job done right for the least amount of money.

If employers start setting wages based on "compassion" for what their employees "need to live", rather than setting them based on what the job is actually worth to the employer, they're going to go out of business and the employees they "care" so much about are going to be unemployed.

If a company requires slave labor to stay in business then fuck 'em. They don't deserve to continue.

If you think pushing a broom for less than $10 an hour is "slave labor", fuck YOU. You don't deserve to continue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're kidding, right?

I am, right at this moment, paying nothing whatsoever for my Internet usage. I'm sitting in a Starbucks, using THEIR Internet connection.

How do you afford Starbucks on welfare?

First of all, dimwit, I'm not on welfare.

Second of all, I'm citing an example of the many ways one can access Internet without having to pay for it at home. Any number of places offer it.

Third, I don't have to "afford" Starbucks. They don't have a cover charge, dimwit. And many places are perfectly happy to have me hang around without buying anything, because I make them look busier and more popular, which makes them more attractive than an empty store would. The shopping mall to which this Starbucks is attached is an even greater proponent of the "we want you to come hang out" concept than the individual businesses in it are.

It is actually allowed for you to turn your brain on and think and reason while you're reading posts. I promise that no one's going to penalize you for it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Wrong.

Do you understand the difference between "wages haven't increased" and "people haven't increased their incomes"? No, of course you don't, because you think all income is something that someone just gives you, randomly and on a whim, unconnected to anything you do.

It is probably quite true that I could get a job at a fast food restaurant today, and in a year, the starting pay for that job would be exactly the same, because "wages haven't increased". But I would not be making the same amount, because I would have increased my income, either by getting a raise, moving up to a better job (shift leader, possibly), or taking my year of experience and moving to another restaurant that pays better, perhaps one where the customers routinely leave tips.

If you want to insist that "things have changed" and low wages are no longer temporary, THAT is what you are going to have to argue with, not "wages haven't increased".

This is an interesting accusation. Care to tell me how you came to that conclusion?

Reading your posts.

Why is it an eternal source of shock to leftists that people assign meaning to the words that emit from their headholes, and learn something about what sort of people they are and how they think by analyzing those meanings?

It's called "communication", Mensa Boy, and it's sort of the point of all that verbal squawking you do.

Well, if I have communicated that to you, surely you can point to my words that gave you that impression.

Do you know what I do for a living? Do you have any idea how I receive my income?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I promise you, there are people willing to work hard for almost nothing, because they will do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead.

And there are always people willing to suck dick for a job because they are willing to do ANYTHING it takes to get ahead. Doesn't mean that the rest of society should tolerate that kind of behavior.

Who asked you to "tolerate" anything? Why do leftists always think it's their job to approve or disapprove of how other people choose to live? I swear to God, unless a person wants to kill their unborn child, you idiots assume you're entitled to a vote on everything else. And THEN you bitch and moan about how CONSERVATIVES want to control lives. It's like Bizarro World, delving into the liberal mind.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I had to participate in a physical holds training for one of our more violent clients a few days before I popped.

It was flipping hilarious. I was immense, rolling around on the ground learning how to restrain a client who kicked, bit, head butted, spit and punched.

Well, I imagine it added a certain amount of extra incentive.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The one thing that screams loud and clear from this thread is that the liberal message to the poor is "Abandon Hope!"

Actually, the liberal message has been "Embrace hope you can believe in." It's been the conservative message to abandon hope.

The only "hope" you assholes seem to think anyone can believe in is "I hope the government gets me more money". For anyone with a shred of dignity or self-respect, that's not hope.

And yeah, the message of "get an education, work hard, better yourself" is definitely "abandon hope". I guess that, in the same vein, you would consider "stop wasting money on lottery tickets and put it in the bank instead" to be "abandon hope", too.

 

[JoeNormal]

Dodge:

I think you cannot answer the fucking question, and I'm leaning toward believing that you mightn't be bright enough to survive without a nanny

I've been a successful engineer for 20+ years. As I said before, minimum wage hasn't been on my radar for about 30 years. But unlike you freedom-loving 'real Americans', I can see beyond myself.

Why don't you tell me why you're not 6 months away from becoming a Walmart greeter.

Oh, God save us from the do-gooders who are proudly "seeing beyond themselves" and determined to "help" others, never mind that one can always tell those others by the hunted, harried expressions on their faces.

God save us from the 'I had it harder than anyone and I still made it' brand of cons. That kind of cocksure attitude usually comes from a combination of ignorance and abrasiveness.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The one thing that screams loud and clear from this thread is that the liberal message to the poor is "Abandon Hope!"

Actually, the liberal message has been "Embrace hope you can believe in." It's been the conservative message to abandon hope.

The only "hope" you assholes seem to think anyone can believe in is "I hope the government gets me more money". For anyone with a shred of dignity or self-respect, that's not hope.

And yeah, the message of "get an education, work hard, better yourself" is definitely "abandon hope". I guess that, in the same vein, you would consider "stop wasting money on lottery tickets and put it in the bank instead" to be "abandon hope", too.

Pull the cactus out of your ass. You've completely misconstrued everything I've said because you're so damn hellbent on being a partisan hack.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is an interesting accusation. Care to tell me how you came to that conclusion?

Reading your posts.

Why is it an eternal source of shock to leftists that people assign meaning to the words that emit from their headholes, and learn something about what sort of people they are and how they think by analyzing those meanings?

It's called "communication", Mensa Boy, and it's sort of the point of all that verbal squawking you do.

Well, if I have communicated that to you, surely you can point to my words that gave you that impression.

Do you know what I do for a living? Do you have any idea how I receive my income?

I don't give a shit on either count. Every word that emanates from you indicates a manifest disbelief that people's financial situation is in any way related to their own efforts, whatever you may or may not think about yourself personally. In fact, I've found that it's quite common for leftists to adopt the attitude of "Well, I can get ahead and take care of myself, because I'm great, but I need to worry about all those other losers out there who aren't as grand as I am".

Furthermore, I am not interested in continuing this diversionary conversation past this point (I can't answer any of your points, so I'll just talk about ME instead!). I am simply going to take the fact that you ignored everything else I said to focus on yourself as a sign that you know you're full of shit and don't want to admit it, and will ignore any other attempts at self-absorption on your part.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I've been a successful engineer for 20+ years. As I said before, minimum wage hasn't been on my radar for about 30 years. But unlike you freedom-loving 'real Americans', I can see beyond myself.

Why don't you tell me why you're not 6 months away from becoming a Walmart greeter.

Oh, God save us from the do-gooders who are proudly "seeing beyond themselves" and determined to "help" others, never mind that one can always tell those others by the hunted, harried expressions on their faces.

God save us from the 'I had it harder than anyone and I still made it' brand of cons. That kind of cocksure attitude usually comes from a combination of ignorance and abrasiveness.

First of all, please point me to where I said, "I had it harder than anyone else", or in fact have even referenced my own personal life experience.

Second of all, why is it you think you need to be "saved" from people offering you an example of how success can be achieved? Could it be because you know that examples of hard work and personal responsibility are death to your "vision of the anointed"?

Personally, I'd rather hear from someone saying, "I'm nothing special, but I managed to get ahead in life, and you can do it too" than from someone saying, "My life is good, but that's only because I'm so special. You, on the other hand, are hopelessly fucked by life and incapable of achieving anything, so aren't you glad that I came along to be benevolent to you?" Talk about a cocksure attitude based in ignorance and abrasiveness.

 

[JoeNormal]

Don't be such a dumbass, please. While MW workers are a tiny percentage of the workforce - and they are - the companies that employ them tend to employ quite a lot of them. And whether YOU consider them to be "forced" to pass the increased cost of labor on to customers or not, they WILL do so regardless.

Gee, perhaps if YOU leftist dipshits quit whining about "too big to fail" and "we need bailouts to save jobs!", that personal responsibility for bad business decisions would come back. But no, you want to pretend that it's US who want to shield the rich from the consequences of their actions. Nice try. We're not the ones who think it's the government's job to intervene in the natural flow of the economy every time someone thinks it might be unpleasant.

You guys are apparently too stupid to realize that once an economy crashes, it can be YEARS if ever before it comes back. And since your idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do whatever benefits only them over the extreme short term, it becomes virtually certain that the crash WILL come.

No, we realize that economic recovery takes time. What we ALSO realize, which you don't get, is that government interference doesn't really mitigate that. All it accomplishes is to spread the pain out over the extended length of time it takes for the economy to recover. It's like the difference between ripping a band-aid off, and picking it off slowly. In the end, you're better off gritting your teeth and accepting the more intense short-term pain.

Am I supposed to somehow be ashamed that "my idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do what benefits them"? Because I'm actually quite proud of not advocating that people do things against their own best interests to serve my agenda. And no, capitalism is not what causes crashes.

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it or not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, the liberal message has been "Embrace hope you can believe in." It's been the conservative message to abandon hope.

The only "hope" you assholes seem to think anyone can believe in is "I hope the government gets me more money". For anyone with a shred of dignity or self-respect, that's not hope.

And yeah, the message of "get an education, work hard, better yourself" is definitely "abandon hope". I guess that, in the same vein, you would consider "stop wasting money on lottery tickets and put it in the bank instead" to be "abandon hope", too.

Pull the cactus out of your ass. You've completely misconstrued everything I've said because you're so damn hellbent on being a partisan hack.

No, Sparkles, I've read everything you said exactly according to the meaning of the words. If you don't like how they sound when they're stripped down to their bare bones, that's on YOU for spouting horse manure dressed up to look like a birthday present, not me for pulling away the fancy wrappings so everyone can see the shit.

If you think you can in some explain how what you said didn't mean what I demonstrated that it did, in fact, mean, go right ahead and try. I shall watch your contortions with great interest and amusement.

 

[JoeNormal]

Oh, God save us from the do-gooders who are proudly "seeing beyond themselves" and determined to "help" others, never mind that one can always tell those others by the hunted, harried expressions on their faces.

God save us from the 'I had it harder than anyone and I still made it' brand of cons. That kind of cocksure attitude usually comes from a combination of ignorance and abrasiveness.

First of all, please point me to where I said, "I had it harder than anyone else", or in fact have even referenced my own personal life experience.

Second of all, why is it you think you need to be "saved" from people offering you an example of how success can be achieved? Could it be because you know that examples of hard work and personal responsibility are death to your "vision of the anointed"?

Personally, I'd rather hear from someone saying, "I'm nothing special, but I managed to get ahead in life, and you can do it too" than from someone saying, "My life is good, but that's only because I'm so special. You, on the other hand, are hopelessly fucked by life and incapable of achieving anything, so aren't you glad that I came along to be benevolent to you?" Talk about a cocksure attitude based in ignorance and abrasiveness.

Do you even read what you write? Your whole sequence of diatribes suggest that you made it (whatever 'it' is) through sheer force of will. If there wasn't a job to be had, you'd pester the boss until one was created for you.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Reading your posts.

Why is it an eternal source of shock to leftists that people assign meaning to the words that emit from their headholes, and learn something about what sort of people they are and how they think by analyzing those meanings?

It's called "communication", Mensa Boy, and it's sort of the point of all that verbal squawking you do.

Well, if I have communicated that to you, surely you can point to my words that gave you that impression.

Do you know what I do for a living? Do you have any idea how I receive my income?

I don't give a shit on either count. Every word that emanates from you indicates a manifest disbelief that people's financial situation is in any way related to their own efforts, whatever you may or may not think about yourself personally. In fact, I've found that it's quite common for leftists to adopt the attitude of "Well, I can get ahead and take care of myself, because I'm great, but I need to worry about all those other losers out there who aren't as grand as I am".

Furthermore, I am not interested in continuing this diversionary conversation past this point (I can't answer any of your points, so I'll just talk about ME instead!). I am simply going to take the fact that you ignored everything else I said to focus on yourself as a sign that you know you're full of shit and don't want to admit it, and will ignore any other attempts at self-absorption on your part.

If you don't want to discuss ME, don't make stupid, unsubstantiated accusations about ME......as I will then ignore all of your other bullshit in order to set your dumb ass straight about ME.

Your take on human nature...especially American human nature is wrong. People are not freeloaders by nature and prefer to be gainfully employed over being "taken care of".

I have asked every one of the most arrogant and "self reliant" conservatives here the following questions and have yet to get EVEN AN ATTEMPT AT AN ANSWER:

HOW MANY ABLE BODIED ADULT AMERICANS ARE UNWILLING TO WORK A JOB THAT IS OPEN TO THEM AND, INSTEAD, OPT TO LIVE OFF OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS?

ALSO, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF US TAX REVENUES ARE SPENT SUPPORTING THESE ENTITLEMENT SEEKING, LAZY, FUCK-UPS?

You want to try?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You guys are apparently too stupid to realize that once an economy crashes, it can be YEARS if ever before it comes back. And since your idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do whatever benefits only them over the extreme short term, it becomes virtually certain that the crash WILL come.

No, we realize that economic recovery takes time. What we ALSO realize, which you don't get, is that government interference doesn't really mitigate that. All it accomplishes is to spread the pain out over the extended length of time it takes for the economy to recover. It's like the difference between ripping a band-aid off, and picking it off slowly. In the end, you're better off gritting your teeth and accepting the more intense short-term pain.

Am I supposed to somehow be ashamed that "my idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do what benefits them"? Because I'm actually quite proud of not advocating that people do things against their own best interests to serve my agenda. And no, capitalism is not what causes crashes.

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

. . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I was waiting for me to give a shit about your blank, unsubstantiated assertions of "this is just how it is", and it never happened.

You don't honestly think you're going to just confidently state, "Capitalism is too volatile to make it work" and I'm going to say, "Oh, okay, since you're so brilliant and wonderful, I'll just take your word for it", do you?

You said it, now prove it.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The only "hope" you assholes seem to think anyone can believe in is "I hope the government gets me more money". For anyone with a shred of dignity or self-respect, that's not hope.

And yeah, the message of "get an education, work hard, better yourself" is definitely "abandon hope". I guess that, in the same vein, you would consider "stop wasting money on lottery tickets and put it in the bank instead" to be "abandon hope", too.

Pull the cactus out of your ass. You've completely misconstrued everything I've said because you're so damn hellbent on being a partisan hack.

No, Sparkles, I've read everything you said exactly according to the meaning of the words. If you don't like how they sound when they're stripped down to their bare bones, that's on YOU for spouting horse manure dressed up to look like a birthday present, not me for pulling away the fancy wrappings so everyone can see the shit.

If you think you can in some explain how what you said didn't mean what I demonstrated that it did, in fact, mean, go right ahead and try. I shall watch your contortions with great interest and amusement.

The veins in your forehead are popping out.

For starters, when you say things like "you assholes" you make it sound like I'm a Democrat or that I voted for Obama. Neither one of those is true. Second, you clearly missed the fact that what I said was a play on words. You know, Obama's slogan about hope and change and all that nonsense.... So the Democrats are offering "hope" and the Republicans are telling people to abandon "hope." Jesus Christ, talk about having to strip words down to bare bones. You're getting yourself all worked up, and I'm sure your blood pressure is sky high right about now. Go smoke a cigarette and calm down, it'll be healthier for you.