How do people survive on minimum wage?

[koshergrl]

I had to participate in a physical holds training for one of our more violent clients a few days before I popped.

It was flipping hilarious. I was immense, rolling around on the ground learning how to restrain a client who kicked, bit, head butted, spit and punched.

Well, I imagine it added a certain amount of extra incentive.

Those big bad boys were TERRIFIED of me when I was pregnant, it was too funny. I had one throw a remote control in my general direction once and it almost hit me, and he almost passed out.

 

[koshergrl]

Pull the cactus out of your ass. You've completely misconstrued everything I've said because you're so damn hellbent on being a partisan hack.

No, Sparkles, I've read everything you said exactly according to the meaning of the words. If you don't like how they sound when they're stripped down to their bare bones, that's on YOU for spouting horse manure dressed up to look like a birthday present, not me for pulling away the fancy wrappings so everyone can see the shit.

If you think you can in some explain how what you said didn't mean what I demonstrated that it did, in fact, mean, go right ahead and try. I shall watch your contortions with great interest and amusement.

The veins in your forehead are popping out.

For starters, when you say things like "you assholes" you make it sound like I'm a Democrat or that I voted for Obama. Neither one of those is true. Second, you clearly missed the fact that what I said was a play on words. You know, Obama's slogan about hope and change and all that nonsense.... So the Democrats are offering "hope" and the Republicans are telling people to abandon "hope." Jesus Christ, talk about having to strip words down to bare bones. You're getting yourself all worked up, and I'm sure your blood pressure is sky high right about now. Go smoke a cigarette and calm down, it'll be healthier for you.

No, I'm pretty sure she included you in the "you assholes" because you're an asshole.

You're always cagey about your political leanings, aside from your insistence that you're "moderate" and "not liberal".

You're just a garden variety liar.

 

[uscitizen]

People clearly cannot live on minimum wage so we should therefore outlaw it.

 

[JoeNormal]

No, we realize that economic recovery takes time. What we ALSO realize, which you don't get, is that government interference doesn't really mitigate that. All it accomplishes is to spread the pain out over the extended length of time it takes for the economy to recover. It's like the difference between ripping a band-aid off, and picking it off slowly. In the end, you're better off gritting your teeth and accepting the more intense short-term pain.

Am I supposed to somehow be ashamed that "my idea of capitalism is just letting everyone do what benefits them"? Because I'm actually quite proud of not advocating that people do things against their own best interests to serve my agenda. And no, capitalism is not what causes crashes.

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

. . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I was waiting for me to give a shit about your blank, unsubstantiated assertions of "this is just how it is", and it never happened.

You don't honestly think you're going to just confidently state, "Capitalism is too volatile to make it work" and I'm going to say, "Oh, okay, since you're so brilliant and wonderful, I'll just take your word for it", do you?

You said it, now prove it.

What part of the medical industry are you in anyway? Billing? Receptionist? Answering service? It can't be anything very technical if you can't see how a high tech supply line could be disrupted by just about anything.

Hells bells, the US props up puppets all over the world to keep critical goods flowing. And once in while it comes back to bite us in the ass.

 

[uscitizen]

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

. . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I was waiting for me to give a shit about your blank, unsubstantiated assertions of "this is just how it is", and it never happened.

You don't honestly think you're going to just confidently state, "Capitalism is too volatile to make it work" and I'm going to say, "Oh, okay, since you're so brilliant and wonderful, I'll just take your word for it", do you?

You said it, now prove it.

What part of the medical industry are you in anyway? Billing? Receptionist? Answering service? It can't be anything very technical if you can't see how a high tech supply line could be disrupted by just about anything.

Hells bells, the US props up puppets all over the world to keep critical goods flowing. And once in while it comes back to bite us in the ass.

And now we even have military materials coming from China.

 

[Cecilie1200]

God save us from the 'I had it harder than anyone and I still made it' brand of cons. That kind of cocksure attitude usually comes from a combination of ignorance and abrasiveness.

First of all, please point me to where I said, "I had it harder than anyone else", or in fact have even referenced my own personal life experience.

Second of all, why is it you think you need to be "saved" from people offering you an example of how success can be achieved? Could it be because you know that examples of hard work and personal responsibility are death to your "vision of the anointed"?

Personally, I'd rather hear from someone saying, "I'm nothing special, but I managed to get ahead in life, and you can do it too" than from someone saying, "My life is good, but that's only because I'm so special. You, on the other hand, are hopelessly fucked by life and incapable of achieving anything, so aren't you glad that I came along to be benevolent to you?" Talk about a cocksure attitude based in ignorance and abrasiveness.

Do you even read what you write? Your whole sequence of diatribes suggest that you made it (whatever 'it' is) through sheer force of will. If there wasn't a job to be had, you'd pester the boss until one was created for you.

I do read what I write, which is how I know that I have not once referenced my own personal life experiences in this thread. You made assumptions based on "my whole diatribe", but never once have you heard me say ANYTHING that wasn't based on general common sense and logic economic data, rather than personal anecdotes. Your assumptions are not my problem. If you can prove that I've done otherwise, do so.

 

[flacaltenn]

I didn't say I was a idiot I do not need a GED seeing as I went through school....I said at my age I do not want to go in debt to get more education unless I need to. I have experience is many different fields and have the education to match them. I was saying that in truth each person has their ow Individual challenges. Also I was making the point that a piece of paper is no replacement for experience.

Oh I'm not demeaning experience, trade-work, and self-learned skills. I'd love a couple busload of mechanists and tinkerers to show up in Silicon Valley tomorrow. But when factories come BACK to America (they will) -- you're gonna need to know how to talk nicely to machines and do statistics and maybe know a bit about biology at the same time.

Life is changin'.. 16 year olds are writing apps for cell phones. Where do you think a HS grad is gonna be in 10 years?

Look at farmers.. They are now MBAs with other degrees in Ag Science and such.. They HAVE to be to run TODAY'S farm at a profit...

School degrees are no longer worth the paper they are printed on. Use to be you worked hard to earn your degree now they have dumbed down so much in the pursuit of fairness that you have business majors who can barely add and engineers who cant read a blueprint. No the future isnt in our schools it is the young who work and learn...All college graduates today should start in entry positions and MAYBE they will learn their Job.

Well then maybe we argree that the dumbing down needs to stop.. 24th in Math, 17th in science in the world? How long we gonna tolerate this? We're arguing about burger flippers and LA county is considering CUTTING science requirements? Do you know how to say "Yes Sir" in Mandarin?? We better learn.

Too much education theory has totally screwed up math and science. Time to get some REAL math/science teachers and curriculum. "New Math" and "Modern Math" and all those variants were experiments on our kids.

 

[flacaltenn]

That is all bullshit you know....Very few low income workers do what you said. Some welfare queens and kings do though.

And that is primarily why they are still low income workers.


.

low income wrokers are there because they refuse to STRIVE to better themselves...and become complacent.

It's a rare moment that I disagree with "the T", but there is increasingly FEWER transistion jobs BETWEEN low wage and middle class. The UNDERemployment is gonna go sky high. Because we can't all crowd into service jobs. We've got to continue to make world tradeable commodities and inventions.

USED to be that the venerable factory worker led the economy.. Not any more. The lead has to come from a highly skilled job force.. In order to "get the jobs back" for all levels.

 

[bripat9643]

People clearly cannot live on minimum wage so we should therefore outlaw it.

People can't live on chocolate cake, so should we outlaw that?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, if I have communicated that to you, surely you can point to my words that gave you that impression.

Do you know what I do for a living? Do you have any idea how I receive my income?

I don't give a shit on either count. Every word that emanates from you indicates a manifest disbelief that people's financial situation is in any way related to their own efforts, whatever you may or may not think about yourself personally. In fact, I've found that it's quite common for leftists to adopt the attitude of "Well, I can get ahead and take care of myself, because I'm great, but I need to worry about all those other losers out there who aren't as grand as I am".

Furthermore, I am not interested in continuing this diversionary conversation past this point (I can't answer any of your points, so I'll just talk about ME instead!). I am simply going to take the fact that you ignored everything else I said to focus on yourself as a sign that you know you're full of shit and don't want to admit it, and will ignore any other attempts at self-absorption on your part.

If you don't want to discuss ME, don't make stupid, unsubstantiated accusations about ME......as I will then ignore all of your other bullshit in order to set your dumb ass straight about ME.

In other words, "I'm so desperate to ignore the meat of your post, I'm going to focus on a mere half-sentence throwaway line about me and hope you won't notice."

If you don't want to discuss the topic, just say so. Don't try to change the subject to your magnificently uninteresting self.

So let's see if you finally nutted up enough to answer the point, or if you just filled space with a bunch of bullshit in the assumption that you had diverted long enough for everyone to forget what the original points you were avoiding were, shall we?

Your take on human nature...especially American human nature is wrong. People are not freeloaders by nature and prefer to be gainfully employed over being "taken care of".

Allow me to borrow a page from your book and demand that you show me where I EVER said, "People are freeloaders by nature", or anything vaguely approaching that. To the contrary, I've been adamant in insisting that people can improve their lot in life and should be encouraged to do so, rather than being told their situation is hopeless and all that's left to them is to turn to the government . . . YOUR take on things.

I have asked every one of the most arrogant and "self reliant" conservatives here the following questions and have yet to get EVEN AN ATTEMPT AT AN ANSWER:

HOW MANY ABLE BODIED ADULT AMERICANS ARE UNWILLING TO WORK A JOB THAT IS OPEN TO THEM AND, INSTEAD, OPT TO LIVE OFF OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS?

ALSO, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF US TAX REVENUES ARE SPENT SUPPORTING THESE ENTITLEMENT SEEKING, LAZY, FUCK-UPS?

You want to try?

My, my, my. Being called on your bullshit makes you testy, doesn't it?

Well, I guess that answers my questions: no, you did NOT nut up; yes, you DID fill space with bullshit in the assumption that the points you ran away from had been forgotten.

Unfortunately for you, this isn't an Inquisition, and you're not Torquemada, so you don't get to interrogate me and demand answers. When you can respond to my points, rather than talking about yourself, you will have earned the right to responses yourself. Until then, your posts still scream of fear and surrender.

I'll even be kind and restate the question you refused to acknowledge before daring to fire questions at me, so that you have yet another chance to . . . well, dodge and run and hide, because we both know you're too craven to answer it.

Do you understand the difference between "wages haven't increased" and "people haven't increased their incomes"?

I'll even include the example I provided, so that you can re-ignore THAT, too.

It is probably quite true that I could get a job at a fast food restaurant today, and in a year, the starting pay for that job would be exactly the same, because "wages haven't increased". But I would not be making the same amount, because I would have increased my income, either by getting a raise, moving up to a better job (shift leader, possibly), or taking my year of experience and moving to another restaurant that pays better, perhaps one where the customers routinely leave tips.

So go on. Surprise and enlighten me.

 

[flacaltenn]

People clearly cannot live on minimum wage so we should therefore outlaw it.

People can't live on chocolate cake, so should we outlaw that?

BriPat -- go eat your dessert.. I think it should be determined by the states. Let's see who's right after a few years of experimentation. After all -- makes no sense arguing over what a catfish eating cat can live on if we don't know WHERE said cat exists.. $7.50 in Alabama needs to be $14.50 or more in Cali or NYC -- if you're gonna "live on it".

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The real question should be....

Should we be forcing companies to pay a higher wage than the under achievers are worth?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Pull the cactus out of your ass. You've completely misconstrued everything I've said because you're so damn hellbent on being a partisan hack.

No, Sparkles, I've read everything you said exactly according to the meaning of the words. If you don't like how they sound when they're stripped down to their bare bones, that's on YOU for spouting horse manure dressed up to look like a birthday present, not me for pulling away the fancy wrappings so everyone can see the shit.

If you think you can in some explain how what you said didn't mean what I demonstrated that it did, in fact, mean, go right ahead and try. I shall watch your contortions with great interest and amusement.

The veins in your forehead are popping out.

For starters, when you say things like "you assholes" you make it sound like I'm a Democrat or that I voted for Obama. Neither one of those is true. Second, you clearly missed the fact that what I said was a play on words. You know, Obama's slogan about hope and change and all that nonsense.... So the Democrats are offering "hope" and the Republicans are telling people to abandon "hope." Jesus Christ, talk about having to strip words down to bare bones. You're getting yourself all worked up, and I'm sure your blood pressure is sky high right about now. Go smoke a cigarette and calm down, it'll be healthier for you.

No matter how many times I watch you lefties desperately trying to pretend people respect you by projecting non-existent anger onto their posts, it never ceases to amuse me. Almost as much as the kneejerk "I'm not a Democrat; no, REALLY!" response. Yeah, it says a lot for liberals that everyone's ashamed to be labeled one. I especially find it interesting that someone who posted attacking conservatives and consistently does so in other threads is anxious to convince people that he's not a liberal.

Perhaps someone should have told you that clever plays on words are supposed to be . . . you know, clever. There's no "play on words" involved inanely parroting the claims of Obama and others that they and their policies are the "hope" of poor people. Oh, yeah, YOU aren't a Democrat or Obama supporter, nuh uh. Not you.

Keep flattering yourself that you're capable of getting people worked up. It's one of the few times you're entertaining rather than tediously dull.

 

[bripat9643]

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it or not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

ROFL! Pure capitalism is the only reason it exists in the first place. Do you think government created the medical industry? "Perturbations" occur in the "house of cards" all the time, but the market always finds a way to provide consumers with what they demand. government always fails to provide people with what they demand. Those are two iron rules of economics.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let's take your medical care system as an example. The diagnostic tools in that industry are produced from a combination of exotic materials from all over the world, electronic and mechanical parts from all over the world, technologies developed all over the world and highly skilled assemblers that have taken years to train. Introduce some strong perturbation in this house of cards and all he'll breaks loose. Same for pharmaceuticals. Like it not there needs to be something holding all this together. Pure capitalism is too volatile to make it work.

. . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I was waiting for me to give a shit about your blank, unsubstantiated assertions of "this is just how it is", and it never happened.

You don't honestly think you're going to just confidently state, "Capitalism is too volatile to make it work" and I'm going to say, "Oh, okay, since you're so brilliant and wonderful, I'll just take your word for it", do you?

You said it, now prove it.

What part of the medical industry are you in anyway? Billing? Receptionist? Answering service? It can't be anything very technical if you can't see how a high tech supply line could be disrupted by just about anything.

Hells bells, the US props up puppets all over the world to keep critical goods flowing. And once in while it comes back to bite us in the ass.

Whenever you're done trying to make this personal and/or loftily claim, "You'd know how right I am if you were in that field, just take my word for it" and produce a REAL response, I'll still be here waiting . . . unless I die of old age first. At this rate, it might actually take you forty years to sack up and answer.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Your dopey question does not address anything that I said. You think you can score points by asking a question like that, complete with an example drawn from the depths of your rectum, and declare a win because I don't see any point in responding?

Let me state it clearly for you. I believe that Americans are the most industrious and productive people in the world. I believe that this fact has been exploited by a fucked up collaboration between Washington DC and Corporate America that began during the Reagan administration. I believe that people would rather work and be paid a fair wage than sit on their ass and receive subsistence welfare.

Unlike you, I do not believe that a work ethic is all that stands between a poor person and a wealthy person. Being a mildly wealthy person, that would make me an arrogant asshole. Which is what I think you are. Even though I think I couldl buy you a few times over.

Want to answer my questions now?

 

[percysunshine]

The real question should be....

Should we be forcing companies to pay a higher wage than the under achievers are worth?

How many under achievers are there, and what is the demand for them?

 

[JoeNormal]

. . . . Oh, I'm sorry. I was waiting for me to give a shit about your blank, unsubstantiated assertions of "this is just how it is", and it never happened.

You don't honestly think you're going to just confidently state, "Capitalism is too volatile to make it work" and I'm going to say, "Oh, okay, since you're so brilliant and wonderful, I'll just take your word for it", do you?

You said it, now prove it.

What part of the medical industry are you in anyway? Billing? Receptionist? Answering service? It can't be anything very technical if you can't see how a high tech supply line could be disrupted by just about anything.

Hells bells, the US props up puppets all over the world to keep critical goods flowing. And once in while it comes back to bite us in the ass.

Whenever you're done trying to make this personal and/or loftily claim, "You'd know how right I am if you were in that field, just take my word for it" and produce a REAL response, I'll still be here waiting . . . unless I die of old age first. At this rate, it might actually take you forty years to sack up and answer.

I've wasted long detailed threads on other forums trying to take conservatives through the baby steps required to trace a path from A to B. Maybe if you show some sign of learning ability beyond your peers, I'll take the time.

 

[Inthemiddle]

No matter how many times I watch you lefties desperately trying to pretend people respect you by projecting non-existent anger onto their posts, it never ceases to amuse me. Almost as much as the kneejerk "I'm not a Democrat; no, REALLY!" response. Yeah, it says a lot for liberals that everyone's ashamed to be labeled one. I especially find it interesting that someone who posted attacking conservatives and consistently does so in other threads is anxious to convince people that he's not a liberal

I don't attack conservatives, I attack bad arguments. This board just happens to be filled with a great many weak minded "conservatives" who constantly present bad arguments. I'm just as likely to attack a liberal's bad arguments. There are other boards that are similarly filled with wing nut liberals, and I've attacked their bad arguments just the same. The problem with using bad arguments to maintain a given position is that it undermines whatever validity the position may hold. Like the wing nuts on this board to rail against Obama for the stupidest of reasons. I'm not an Obama supporter, but fighting him with bad arguments is more dangerous than those who might present good arguments to support him. If you weren't such a partisan hack you'd notice that I've said plenty against Obama, against his stimulus, against the health care law, against his newly announced immigration policy. But I won't sit here and agree with people who take those positions with stupid reasoning.

 

[Annie]

Minimum wage isn't designed to be lived on... it's at best a bare minimum, entry level wage.

I think min. wage is and was a terrible idea. However, the reality today is that there are many adults, some with multiple degrees taking these jobs to add to stop gap jobs that pay above the minimum, but still fall far short of their previous earnings. This is part of the reason that teens and twenty something college students are not finding pt or summer employment.

If you're an employer, do you hire the 40 or 50 some year old, with a good work history or the 16 year old kid? First question in mind is why is this person looking at THIS job? If the applicant says, "You may be concerned that as soon as I find full-time employment I'll leave? I won't, it will take time to recover from this episode and right now there's little chance of something coming up that quick. I'll be here on time and work." That's about all it takes, if lucky enough to find a manager that will give an interview for a minimum wage job to someone with multiple degrees, that's the hard part, they tend to dismiss them.

As far as 'insurance being available or not' according to the article. I work at Walgreen's, only about 16 hours during the school year, but close to 40 in summer. Last summer in July, I 'qualified' for insurance, which is very good. BUT it would cost over $200 a month, $1000 individual deductible, then $20 co-pay. I can't afford that, so...