How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[Lutroo]

Ever wonder why all the planets and the Sun spin the same way?

Doesn't Venus spin the opposite direction?
Why yes, yes it does.

Also predictable and explained by reason aka science:

Rotation of Venus - Universe Today
So why is the rotation of Venus backwards? Astronomers think that Venus was impacted by another large planet early in its history, billions of years ago. The combined momentum between the two objects averaged out to the current rotational speed and direction.

Consider the relationship of the Earth and Moon, the closest thing to a binary planet we have here.

An unproven theory.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

How do you explain a God, a creator, who hasn't been created himself?

Who created God?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Ever wonder why all the planets and the Sun spin the same way?

Doesn't Venus spin the opposite direction?
Why yes, yes it does.

Also predictable and explained by reason aka science:

Rotation of Venus - Universe Today
So why is the rotation of Venus backwards? Astronomers think that Venus was impacted by another large planet early in its history, billions of years ago. The combined momentum between the two objects averaged out to the current rotational speed and direction.

Consider the relationship of the Earth and Moon, the closest thing to a binary planet we have here.

An unproven theory.

God is an unproven theory.

 

[edthecynic]

Ever wonder why all the planets and the Sun spin the same way?

Doesn't Venus spin the opposite direction?
Why yes, yes it does.

Also predictable and explained by reason aka science:

Rotation of Venus - Universe Today
So why is the rotation of Venus backwards? Astronomers think that Venus was impacted by another large planet early in its history, billions of years ago. The combined momentum between the two objects averaged out to the current rotational speed and direction.

Consider the relationship of the Earth and Moon, the closest thing to a binary planet we have here.

I see, you are always right even when you are wrong.

 

[Boss]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Great point.

Order cannot come from chaos...
I know, right?

These deniers amaze me sometimes. They actually have faith in something even more unbelievable than a Creator. Physics not only has to defy all rules of random probability, it has to do this repeatedly and precisely or none of this exists. Dozens upon dozens of cosmological constants, planetary and environmental constants, nuclear and magnetic constants, the complete inner-workings of nature itself is all controlled by precision mathematics, constants, set variables that we know. And they believe, with all their heart and soul, that this all "poofed into existence" randomly out of nothingness.

Most incredibly of all, they believe that Physics created Itself! They have no other explanations aside from quantum theories about some extra-cosmic universe machine spitting out trillions of universes, of which, an ordered one is possible. It's pretty remarkable the extent some people will go to in order to disbelieve in God.

 

[Lutroo]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

How do you explain a God, a creator, who hasn't been created himself?

Who created God?

I'm sure that's been explained to you, more than once. You simply refuse to accept it. Am I wrong?

 

[Lutroo]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Great point.

Order cannot come from chaos...
I know, right?

These deniers amaze me sometimes. They actually have faith in something even more unbelievable than a Creator. Physics not only has to defy all rules of random probability, it has to do this repeatedly and precisely or none of this exists. Dozens upon dozens of cosmological constants, planetary and environmental constants, nuclear and magnetic constants, the complete inner-workings of nature itself is all controlled by precision mathematics, constants, set variables that we know. And they believe, with all their heart and soul, that this all "poofed into existence" randomly out of nothingness.

Most incredibly of all, they believe that Physics created Itself! They have no other explanations aside from quantum theories about some extra-cosmic universe machine spitting out trillions of universes, of which, an ordered one is possible. It's pretty remarkable the extent some people will go to in order to disbelieve in God.

Not only that. Even the simplest cell is complex beyond belief. All of the thousands of parts of a cell have to be in place at the same time for a cell to work. If even one of those parts are missing, the cell dies. Also, DNA cannot exist without proteins, yet it requires DNA to create those proteins. I've heard this impossibility explained by having RNA perform both functions, until DNA came along, but that is unproven theory. Actually, it doesn't even qualify as a theory.

 

[zaangalewa]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

Translation: No, I can't name a single fucking thing in the entire Universe which doesn't follow the laws of the Natural Universe. For making me look like an ignorant moron, I'll assume you are full of crap.

You are free to believe in unicorns, but most people who are interested understand I've posted several links supporting my opinion and you only posted your opinion.

I'm not saying that some rules don't work some times. I'm saying you are full of shit.

Good grief.

It's a chaotic Universe. You can't prove it's an ordered universe.

The Great Bear lets ask you: "What do you think why an high orderly easy structure like 'z<-z^2+c' is 'chaos'?"

You can't list the rules this Ordered Universe abides by. Thus you are making it up.

 

[CremeBrulee]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

How do you explain a God, a creator, who hasn't been created himself?

Who created God?

Turtles. All the way down.

 

[zaangalewa]

Let's see, now. On one hand, we have a collection of writings that are 2,000 to 3,000 years old written by people who who would be considered barely literate and certainly ignorant, by our standards, which is the sole source of our information about god that we have. On the other hand, we have the sum accumulated knowledge of man, gathered over thousands of years, and growing every day which has explained mysteries of the universe that we did not have a clue about, even as recently as 25 years ago.

Hmmmmmm.....

You should read the Book of Romans. It's author was a very educated man. Hardly an ignorant savage, as you suggest. People were just as smart two thousand years ago as they are today. Nice try though.

Perhaps, but I suspect that he would not have been able to pass a 9th grade biology final exam.

Why? Even the people a hundred years ago had much more ideas about biology than the most people have today. For example: We use "selection" since a very long time of history meanwhile. It's not really new or astonishing what Darwin said about biological evolution. Today the most people say words like "race", "genes" or "evolution" in completelly wrong contextes. Most people today had first to "unlearn", what they see wrong. And this needs much more power than to learn new. I guess Paulus would learn very fast the new facts and would understand the real problems in a better way than lots of people are doing so today.

 

[zaangalewa]

What is happening is that, with the discoveries of modern science (specifically quantum physics), we are confronted by realities for which we have no vocabulary. The relative world we evolved in and created language in has no parallels from which to draw. We cannot, for example, hear that the universe started at 0 some time in the past without automatically asking what preceded. Further, we cannot accept the concept that nothing preceded. We are caught in linguistics.

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

How do you explain a God, a creator, who hasn't been created himself?

Who created God?

I'm sure that's been explained to you, more than once. You simply refuse to accept it. Am I wrong?

Yes, you're wrong.

Mostly you're wrong because this isn't an "explanatory service", it's a debate.

You don't just explain things to me and then say "oh, well I told you, now you know". For that, you might want to try other people. Won't wash with me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

How do you explain a God, a creator, who hasn't been created himself?

Who created God?

Turtles. All the way down.

The teenage ninja variety I hope

 

[forkup]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Great point.

Order cannot come from chaos...
I know, right?

These deniers amaze me sometimes. They actually have faith in something even more unbelievable than a Creator. Physics not only has to defy all rules of random probability, it has to do this repeatedly and precisely or none of this exists. Dozens upon dozens of cosmological constants, planetary and environmental constants, nuclear and magnetic constants, the complete inner-workings of nature itself is all controlled by precision mathematics, constants, set variables that we know. And they believe, with all their heart and soul, that this all "poofed into existence" randomly out of nothingness.

Most incredibly of all, they believe that Physics created Itself! They have no other explanations aside from quantum theories about some extra-cosmic universe machine spitting out trillions of universes, of which, an ordered one is possible. It's pretty remarkable the extent some people will go to in order to disbelieve in God.

Not only that. Even the simplest cell is complex beyond belief. All of the thousands of parts of a cell have to be in place at the same time for a cell to work. If even one of those parts are missing, the cell dies. Also, DNA cannot exist without proteins, yet it requires DNA to create those proteins. I've heard this impossibility explained by having RNA perform both functions, until DNA came along, but that is unproven theory. Actually, it doesn't even qualify as a theory.

1. There is no reason to think that the life around today is comparable in complexity to the earliest life. All of the simplest life would almost certainly be extinct by now, outcompeted by more complex forms.
   
   
2. Self-replicators can be incredibly simple, as simple as a strand of six DNA nucleotides (Sievers and von Kiedrowski 1994). This is simple enough to form via prebiotic chemistry. Self-replication sets the stage for evolution to begin, whether or not you call the molecules "life."
   
   
3. Nobody claims the first life arose by chance. To jump from the fact that the origin is unknown to the conclusion that it could not have happened naturally is the argument from incredulity.

 

[Sbiker]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Great point.

Order cannot come from chaos...
I know, right?

These deniers amaze me sometimes. They actually have faith in something even more unbelievable than a Creator. Physics not only has to defy all rules of random probability, it has to do this repeatedly and precisely or none of this exists. Dozens upon dozens of cosmological constants, planetary and environmental constants, nuclear and magnetic constants, the complete inner-workings of nature itself is all controlled by precision mathematics, constants, set variables that we know. And they believe, with all their heart and soul, that this all "poofed into existence" randomly out of nothingness.

Most incredibly of all, they believe that Physics created Itself! They have no other explanations aside from quantum theories about some extra-cosmic universe machine spitting out trillions of universes, of which, an ordered one is possible. It's pretty remarkable the extent some people will go to in order to disbelieve in God.

Not only that. Even the simplest cell is complex beyond belief. All of the thousands of parts of a cell have to be in place at the same time for a cell to work. If even one of those parts are missing, the cell dies. Also, DNA cannot exist without proteins, yet it requires DNA to create those proteins. I've heard this impossibility explained by having RNA perform both functions, until DNA came along, but that is unproven theory. Actually, it doesn't even qualify as a theory.

1. There is no reason to think that the life around today is comparable in complexity to the earliest life. All of the simplest life would almost certainly be extinct by now, outcompeted by more complex forms.
   
   
2. Self-replicators can be incredibly simple, as simple as a strand of six DNA nucleotides (Sievers and von Kiedrowski 1994). This is simple enough to form via prebiotic chemistry. Self-replication sets the stage for evolution to begin, whether or not you call the molecules "life."
   
   
3. Nobody claims the first life arose by chance. To jump from the fact that the origin is unknown to the conclusion that it could not have happened naturally is the argument from incredulity.

Who was created the software, I'm writing now? It evoluted from simple "hello world", through many versions, became more usuable and more comfortable for users... Does it mean, only natural selection drives its evolution, and I don't exist?

There are a few of sense in a question, did the Creator made the universe, or it arisen spontaneous... But, unfortunately, this question just a mask for giant, fundamental theories, which could seriuously affect humankind... Which answer on this question is more progressive now, what do you think?

 

[Mudda]

What is happening is that, with the discoveries of modern science (specifically quantum physics), we are confronted by realities for which we have no vocabulary. The relative world we evolved in and created language in has no parallels from which to draw. We cannot, for example, hear that the universe started at 0 some time in the past without automatically asking what preceded. Further, we cannot accept the concept that nothing preceded. We are caught in linguistics.

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

So now I have to give a fuck about Jews to not be a nazi?
I don't give a fuck about you either.

 

[zaangalewa]

Maybe our Universe isn't orderly.
Some rules exist and because of those rules certain things happen as a result. You know like the speed of light etc. But that doesn't mean someone created those rules, they just are.

If the universe was not orderly, then science would not exist. The scientific method relies on repeatable experiments. Without a ordered universe, this would not be possible.

Science proves truths through mathematical equations...

Natural science proves with predictions in experiments ("If I will do so, then this will happen") - not with mathematical equations. Mathematics helps only to find such quantifyable, measurbale prophecies. But mathematics itselve is not a science.

Math is used as a tool to postulate truths..

Teeth are for example used as a tool to open bottles. Some are opening bottles with a machine gun. But what explains this? As far as I can see an evolution of mathematics step by step over billions of years seems not to exist. A circle was a circle in the very first moment of the existance of our universe.

 

[zaangalewa]

What is happening is that, with the discoveries of modern science (specifically quantum physics), we are confronted by realities for which we have no vocabulary. The relative world we evolved in and created language in has no parallels from which to draw. We cannot, for example, hear that the universe started at 0 some time in the past without automatically asking what preceded. Further, we cannot accept the concept that nothing preceded. We are caught in linguistics.

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

So now I have to give a fuck about Jews to not be a nazi?
I don't give a fuck about you either.

I doubt about. Nazis never let other people live in peace. If you are wrong then you will explode like Little Boy and Fat Man on no other reason than your own wrongness.

 

[Sbiker]

What is happening is that, with the discoveries of modern science (specifically quantum physics), we are confronted by realities for which we have no vocabulary. The relative world we evolved in and created language in has no parallels from which to draw. We cannot, for example, hear that the universe started at 0 some time in the past without automatically asking what preceded. Further, we cannot accept the concept that nothing preceded. We are caught in linguistics.

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

So now I have to give a fuck about Jews to not be a nazi?
I don't give a fuck about you either.

I doubt about. Nazis never let other people live in peace. If you are wrong then you will explode like Little Boy and Fat Man on no other reason than your own wrongness.

In this case, what's difference between nazis and democrats? Lasts are never let to North Corea live in peace too...

 

[Mudda]

What is happening is that, with the discoveries of modern science (specifically quantum physics), we are confronted by realities for which we have no vocabulary. The relative world we evolved in and created language in has no parallels from which to draw. We cannot, for example, hear that the universe started at 0 some time in the past without automatically asking what preceded. Further, we cannot accept the concept that nothing preceded. We are caught in linguistics.

It's pretty simple. In the beginning was the Word.

"In the beginning was the word" - Anton Zeilinger, 01/21/2015.

"Im Anfang war das Wort. Und wer hätte geahnt, dass diese Aussage in den modernen Überlegungen der Physik jetzt eine ganz andere Bedeutung bekommen könnte. Es gibt immer mehr Leute in der Quantenphysik, die der Meinung sind, das Grundkonzept über das wir sprechen, ist die Information. Die Information als Möglichkeit des Gewinns von Wissen. Wenn das das fundamentale Konzept unserer Weltbeschreibung ist, dann ist das nicht weit weg von ‚Im Anfang war das Wort‘“.

source: Diözese Linz

... Nobody gives a fuck about the jews, we're talking about the bible. 6 days means 6 fucking days.

Whatever could be the opposit of "Nobody gives a fuck about the Jews." without to attack any Jew: that's exactly my choice, Nazi, US-¿Anti?-American one. God made the world in six days. Nothing to discuss about with Nazis.

So now I have to give a fuck about Jews to not be a nazi?
I don't give a fuck about you either.

I doubt about. Nazis never let other people live in peace. If you are wrong then you will explode like Little Boy and Fat Man on no other reason than your own wrongness.

You're so obsessed with nazis that the mere mention of Jews sends you into a Hitler frenzy. I don't care what Jews do, doesn't mean I want them all dead. That would be you.