How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[Lutroo]

Maybe our Universe isn't orderly.
Some rules exist and because of those rules certain things happen as a result. You know like the speed of light etc. But that doesn't mean someone created those rules, they just are.

If the universe was not orderly, then science would not exist. The scientific method relies on repeatable experiments. Without a ordered universe, this would not be possible.

Science proves truths through mathematical equations...

Natural science proves with predictions in experiments ("If I will do so, then this will happen") - not with mathematical equations. Mathematics helps only to find such quantifyable, measurable "prophecies". But mathematics itselve is not a natural science. Mathematics creates theories about structures without any form of reality. Just for fun for example mathematicians are doing something and find interesting structures. But suddenly we are able to find structures of mathematics in the reality. How is this possible?

And how does one even explain the existence of mathematics without a Creator? It is not something that we invented. We simply discovered it.

And you still haven’t discovered the fact that this line of ‘reasoning’ fails as an appeal to ignorance fallacy.

That's simply your opinion. The simple fact that order exist is evidence for a Creator. Not proof. But it is evidence. How else do you explain it? Oh. That's right. You believe it simply happened all by itself. Right. Lol

 

[zaangalewa]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

With "creation". Nothing was before god created everything - including existance.

 

[Mudda]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

With "creation". Nothing was before god created everything - including existance.

So who created god?

 

[Lutroo]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

With "creation". Nothing was before god created everything - including existance.

What most people fail to realize is that God, by definition, is above creation. He is not subject to the laws of the universe. He created it, after all. Why do atheists have a problem with an eternal God, but not an eternal universe?

 

[edthecynic]

Man cannot create or destroy matter or energy. Who says that God couldn't do it?

Nature, and Nature is supreme.

It would be interesting to hear about how you know this. Where's your evidence?

Because God is powerless to violate Nature Law.

Where's your evidence? Why do you think nature is all powerful? Allow me to use one of the favorite arguments of atheists. Who created nature? You seem to believe that nature is all powerful, yet deny that God has any power. You worship the created rather than the Creator. You are in for a rude awakening.

Energy cannot be created.

 

[zaangalewa]

The universe is extremely ordered.

Hogwash!
The universe is extremely DISORDERED!!!
Everything is crashing into something else.

Spiral Galaxies in Collision

What do you call "disorder" in this context?

 

[edthecynic]

What most people fail to realize is that God, by definition, is above creation. He is not subject to the laws of the universe. He created it, after all. Why do atheists have a problem with an eternal God, but not an eternal universe?

And that, by definition, is not a proof, it is just a pontification.

 

[zaangalewa]

Man cannot create or destroy matter or energy. Who says that God couldn't do it?

Nature, and Nature is supreme.

It would be interesting to hear about how you know this. Where's your evidence?

Because God is powerless to violate Nature Law.

Where's your evidence? Why do you think nature is all powerful? Allow me to use one of the favorite arguments of atheists. Who created nature? You seem to believe that nature is all powerful, yet deny that God has any power. You worship the created rather than the Creator. You are in for a rude awakening.

Energy cannot be created.

Since the universe (or multiverse) is created energy cannot be destroyed and energy cannot be created. Energy is always only able to be transformed. "Before" nothing was existing.

 

[rdean]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

ordered?
Where do these people come from?
I know, I know. It has to be damp.

 

[HenryBHough]

Who "ordered" a universe?

All I called out for was a pizza.

 

[Mudda]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

With "creation". Nothing was before god created everything - including existance.

What most people fail to realize is that God, by definition, is above creation. He is not subject to the laws of the universe. He created it, after all. Why do atheists have a problem with an eternal God, but not an eternal universe?

If god doesn't need a creator, then maybe the universe doesn't need a creator either. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Mudda]

You believe it simply happened all by itself. Right. Lol

You believe that god happened all by itself. Is that funny as well?

 

[Lutroo]

What most people fail to realize is that God, by definition, is above creation. He is not subject to the laws of the universe. He created it, after all. Why do atheists have a problem with an eternal God, but not an eternal universe?

And that, by definition, is not a proof, it is just a pontification.

Question for you. Do you believe what scientists say about energy having always existed?

 

[Lutroo]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

 

[Hollie]

How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

You can't.

So how do you explain the Creator without a Creator of the Creator?

With "creation". Nothing was before god created everything - including existance.

What most people fail to realize is that God, by definition, is above creation. He is not subject to the laws of the universe. He created it, after all. Why do atheists have a problem with an eternal God, but not an eternal universe?

Since when are gawds, "by definition" above creation? That is nothing more than a pointless sidestep. Which of the gawds have identified themselves as being "by definition ", above creation? It seems to me that your version of gawds are, "by definition", above creation simply because that is the attribute assigned to them by their human inventors. Unless, of course, the gawds have spoken to you and told you otherwise.

In terms of the plethora of gawds invented by humans, it is only the more recent inventions that have been given the eternal and uncreated™ label.

If you review your god'ology reference material, will find that earlier gawds were often superhuman-humans. When Zeus boinked a woman named Leto, they spawned two gawds rather important to the Greeks: Apollo and Artemis.

 

[Hollie]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

Nothing that science understands about the "Big Bang" implies a need for your gawds or anyone else's gawds.

What explanation can you provide to suggest that your gawds had a magic "waving of hand" moment to "poof" existence?

 

[Lutroo]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

Nothing that science understands about the "Big Bang" implies a need for your gawds or anyone else's gawds.

What explanation can you provide to suggest that your gawds had a magic "waving of hand" moment to "poof" existence?

Need I remind you that I am the one who asked for an explanation? No one has provided one. Why is that? It's because no one knows. That is a simple fact. Atheists believe in a naturalistic origin for the universe. This belief is based on faith, just as my belief in God is based on faith. Who are you to say that I am wrong?

 

[Hollie]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

Nothing that science understands about the "Big Bang" implies a need for your gawds or anyone else's gawds.

What explanation can you provide to suggest that your gawds had a magic "waving of hand" moment to "poof" existence?

Need I remind you that I am the one who asked for an explanation? No one has provided one. Why is that? It's because no one knows. That is a simple fact. Atheists believe in a naturalistic origin for the universe. This belief is based on faith, just as my belief in God is based on faith. Who are you to say that I am wrong?

Need I remind you that special pleading to a "God of the gaps" fallacy is pointless and time wasting?

It may come as a shock to you but there is no requirement for atheism to accept a natural cause for the existence of the universe. There is no requirement for faith to accept a naturally occurring universe.

There is, however, a typical need for religious dogma that defines those who insist one or more partisan gawds magically poofed all of existence.

 

[Lutroo]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

Nothing that science understands about the "Big Bang" implies a need for your gawds or anyone else's gawds.

What explanation can you provide to suggest that your gawds had a magic "waving of hand" moment to "poof" existence?

Need I remind you that I am the one who asked for an explanation? No one has provided one. Why is that? It's because no one knows. That is a simple fact. Atheists believe in a naturalistic origin for the universe. This belief is based on faith, just as my belief in God is based on faith. Who are you to say that I am wrong?

Need I remind you that special pleading to a "God of the gaps" fallacy is pointless and time wasting?

It may come as a shock to you but there is no requirement for atheism to accept a natural cause for the existence of the universe. There is no requirement for faith to accept a naturally occurring universe.

There is, however, a typical need for religious dogma that defines those who insist one or more partisan gawds magically poofed all of existence.

And yet no one has provided an answer to my question. This isn't about who is correct. I'm simply asking for an explanation for the existence of the universe other than a Creator. Do you have one?

 

[Hollie]

I have yet to see an explanation for how the universe could exist without a Creator. Just saying.

Nothing that science understands about the "Big Bang" implies a need for your gawds or anyone else's gawds.

What explanation can you provide to suggest that your gawds had a magic "waving of hand" moment to "poof" existence?

Need I remind you that I am the one who asked for an explanation? No one has provided one. Why is that? It's because no one knows. That is a simple fact. Atheists believe in a naturalistic origin for the universe. This belief is based on faith, just as my belief in God is based on faith. Who are you to say that I am wrong?

Need I remind you that special pleading to a "God of the gaps" fallacy is pointless and time wasting?

It may come as a shock to you but there is no requirement for atheism to accept a natural cause for the existence of the universe. There is no requirement for faith to accept a naturally occurring universe.

There is, however, a typical need for religious dogma that defines those who insist one or more partisan gawds magically poofed all of existence.

And yet no one has provided an answer to my question. This isn't about who is correct. I'm simply asking for an explanation for the existence of the universe other than a Creator. Do you have one?

Sure. It's what science calls the Big Bang.