How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[sealybobo]

Not really. In every point all around you could be an infinite number of universes if the sum of all positive and negative energies of this universes would be "0". Our universe has by the way no outside.

Hey, look who's back, enjoy your little holiday away from the board? You're welcome.
How do you know that there's nothing outside our universe? Your invisible friend tell you?

Did you get him banned?

 

[zaangalewa]

Good grief Mudda - why do you always like to speak with me? Why can you not let it be?

Not really. In every point all around you could be an infinite number of universes if the sum of all positive and negative energies of this universes would be "0". Our universe has by the way no outside.

Hey, look who's back, enjoy your little holiday away from the board? You're welcome.
How do you know that there's nothing outside our universe? Your invisible friend tell you?

It has no border. No border - no outside.

PS: And don't forget to go to a doctor and to ask him what you can do against your deinhibition of agressions. I don't like to see in you the next idiot who is doing what the idiot in Orlando did.

 

[sealybobo]

...I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything....

LOL You are free to misuse terms and feel like you are smart. Just don't expect anyone to respect your ignorance.

Dark Flow. In 2008, astronomers discovered something very strange and unexpected – galactic clusters were all streaming in the same direction at immense speed, over two million miles per hour. New observations in 2010 confirmed this phenomenon, known as Dark Flow. The movement defies all predictions about the distribution of mass throughout the universe after the Big Bang. One possible cause: massive structures outside the Hubble Volume exerting gravitational influence. This would mean that the structure of the infinite universe beyond our view is not uniform.

Infinite Bubbles. Talking about things outside the Hubble Volume might be a bit of a cheat, since it's still really the same universe, just a part of it we can't see. It would have all the same physical laws and constants. In another version of the story, the post-Big Bang expansion of the universe caused "bubbles" to form in the structure of space. Each bubble is an area that stopped stretching along with the rest of space and formed its own universe, with its own laws. In this scenario, space is infinite, and each bubble is also infinite (because you can store an infinite number of infinities inside a single infinity). Even if you could somehow breach the boundary of our bubble, the space in between the bubbles is still expanding, so you'd never get to the next bubble no matter how fast you went.

View attachment upload_2016-6-13_11-51-14.gif
Black Hole Spawning. A theory known as the fecund universes theory, suggests that every black hole in our universe causes the formation of a new universe.

Many Parallel Universes. There are tons of theories about parallel universes, but the most accepted one these days involves an evolution of the ideas of string theory to involve membranes that vibrate in other dimensions. One of the weirdest elements of the theory is the idea that all the gravity we experience in our universe is actually leaking into it from another universe in another dimension (which explains why gravity here seems so weak compared to the other fundamental forces).

 

[zaangalewa]

But don't worry because 5 universes are born every second in the infinite cosmos

Uh, dude, the "cosmos" is our Universe. I think you meant to say "5 galaxies are born every second" although I don't know where you pulled that number from.

Definition of COSMOS
the cosmos : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system

What do you call the universes outside of our universe?

Universes. A cosmos is the Universe. You can't have a universe inside a universe.

If there are other universes what would you call them? I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything.

In order for you to understand there could be more you first have to realize there might be more. This is what people didn't do back when they came up with the God hypothesis

God is not a hypothese but a prophetic revelation - and science is not able to be a religion without destroying science. And for the most people in the world is it completly unimportant wether they live in a universe or in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl. If someone believes to live in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl this makes not anyone to a good or bad Christian nor makes such a discussion the christian religion to a good or bad thing. But nevertheless modern science found lots of things what we believe. The universe has indeed a beginning for example. And nothing what is not in interaction with anything else is in this universe here existing. You could for example stay in the middle of the sun - if the sun interacts not with you, then she would not exist for you and you not for her. So universe, ordered universe and cosmos is the same. The ancient Greeks thought before the cosmos was created the chaos was created. This "ancient" chaos is not the modern chaos of selfreflexive nonlinear mathematical structures, we are speaking today about in this context. The "ancient" chaos was for example hot and cold the same time so no one was able to say wether it was hot or cold. The ancient Greeks said about their chaos that even the eye of the most blessed wisest seer was not able to take a look through this chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: One day started to draw through the chaos a glowing glimmer and a shining shimmer - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods.

 

[zaangalewa]

...I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything....

LOL You are free to misuse terms and feel like you are smart. Just don't expect anyone to respect your ignorance.

Dark Flow. In 2008, astronomers discovered something very strange and unexpected – galactic clusters were all streaming in the same direction at immense speed, over two million miles per hour. New observations in 2010 confirmed this phenomenon, known as Dark Flow. The movement defies all predictions about the distribution of mass throughout the universe after the Big Bang. One possible cause: massive structures outside the Hubble Volume exerting gravitational influence. This would mean that the structure of the infinite universe beyond our view is not uniform.

Perhaps we should send Columbus with three ships to find out what's going on there behind the horizon?

Infinite Bubbles.

Talking about things outside the Hubble Volume might be a bit of a cheat, since it's still really the same universe, just a part of it we can't see. It would have all the same physical laws and constants. In another version of the story, the post-Big Bang expansion of the universe caused "bubbles" to form in the structure of space. Each bubble is an area that stopped stretching along with the rest of space and formed its own universe, with its own laws. In this scenario, space is infinite, and each bubble is also infinite (because you can store an infinite number of infinities inside a single infinity). Even if you could somehow breach the boundary of our bubble, the space in between the bubbles is still expanding, so you'd never get to the next bubble no matter how fast you went.

Except you are faster than a bubble. Thoughts are damned fast for example. Are we able to construct a spaceship with thought-energy?

View attachment 77961

Black Hole Spawning.

A theory known as the fecund universes theory, suggests that every black hole in our universe causes the formation of a new universe.

Makes not any sense this theory. Never a black hole left our universe - it's exactly in the opposit: The Hawking-radiation "vaporizes" black holes and retransforms their energy. Nothing is able to create or to destroy energy in this universe. Also not a black hole.

Many Parallel Universes.

There are tons of theories about parallel universes, but the most accepted one these days involves an evolution of the ideas of string theory to involve membranes that vibrate in other dimensions. One of the weirdest elements of the theory is the idea that all the gravity we experience in our universe is actually leaking into it from another universe in another dimension (which explains why gravity here seems so weak compared to the other fundamental forces).

And what kind of experiment is someone able to do with this ideas? How to falsify this "theories" - or should we call it "plausible mathematical constructions"? The string theory seems to be fascinating for some people - but never said anyone anything with this theory, what could produce an experiment where someone was able to falsify this theory. Scientific theories about nature which are not able to be wrong are worthless.

 

[BreezeWood]

So there has to be some reason we are spiritually hard wired the way we are.

By it's very nature... pardon the pun... Spiritual Nature is not physical or doesn't have physical existence in objective physical reality.

just a note boss, you might someday try and understand that Spirituality and physiology are not related ... it would help the Spiritual cause, home boy.

You've created something from nothing. God. Does that make you God?

You've is the possibility, for a god ... just don't mess with the Almighty.

.

 

[sealybobo]

But don't worry because 5 universes are born every second in the infinite cosmos

Uh, dude, the "cosmos" is our Universe. I think you meant to say "5 galaxies are born every second" although I don't know where you pulled that number from.

Definition of COSMOS
the cosmos : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system

What do you call the universes outside of our universe?

Universes. A cosmos is the Universe. You can't have a universe inside a universe.

If there are other universes what would you call them? I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything.

In order for you to understand there could be more you first have to realize there might be more. This is what people didn't do back when they came up with the God hypothesis

God is not a hypothese but a prophetic revelation - and science is not able to be a religion without destroying science. And for the most people in the world is it completly unimportant wether they live in a universe or in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl. If someone believes to live in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl this makes not anyone to a good or bad Christian nor makes such a discussion the christian religion to a good or bad thing. But nevertheless modern science found lots of things what we believe. The universe has indeed a beginning for example. And nothing what is not in interaction with anything else is in this universe here existing. You could for example stay in the middle of the sun - if the sun interacts not with you, then she would not exist for you and you not for her. So universe, ordered universe and cosmos is the same. The ancient Greeks thought before the cosmos was created the chaos was created. This "ancient" chaos is not the modern chaos of selfreflexive nonlinear mathematical structures, we are speaking today about in this context. The "ancient" chaos was for example hot and cold the same time so no one was able to say wether it was hot or cold. The ancient Greeks said about their chaos that even the eye of the most blessed wisest seer was not able to take a look through this chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: One day started to draw through the chaos a glowing glimmer and a shining shimmer - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods.

God is a hypothesis.

a supposition (an uncertain belief) or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

So I can clearly see God is a hypothesis. What the hell is a prophetic revelation?

 

[sealybobo]

...I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything....

LOL You are free to misuse terms and feel like you are smart. Just don't expect anyone to respect your ignorance.

Dark Flow. In 2008, astronomers discovered something very strange and unexpected – galactic clusters were all streaming in the same direction at immense speed, over two million miles per hour. New observations in 2010 confirmed this phenomenon, known as Dark Flow. The movement defies all predictions about the distribution of mass throughout the universe after the Big Bang. One possible cause: massive structures outside the Hubble Volume exerting gravitational influence. This would mean that the structure of the infinite universe beyond our view is not uniform.

Perhaps we should send Columbus with three ships to find out what's going on there behind the horizon?

Infinite Bubbles.

Talking about things outside the Hubble Volume might be a bit of a cheat, since it's still really the same universe, just a part of it we can't see. It would have all the same physical laws and constants. In another version of the story, the post-Big Bang expansion of the universe caused "bubbles" to form in the structure of space. Each bubble is an area that stopped stretching along with the rest of space and formed its own universe, with its own laws. In this scenario, space is infinite, and each bubble is also infinite (because you can store an infinite number of infinities inside a single infinity). Even if you could somehow breach the boundary of our bubble, the space in between the bubbles is still expanding, so you'd never get to the next bubble no matter how fast you went.

Except you are faster than a bubble. Thoughts are damned fast for example. Are we able to construct a spaceship with thought-energy?

View attachment 77961

Black Hole Spawning.

A theory known as the fecund universes theory, suggests that every black hole in our universe causes the formation of a new universe.

Makes not any sense this theory. Never a black hole left our universe - it's exactly in the opposit: The Hawking-radiation "vaporizes" black holes and retransforms their energy. Nothing is able to create or to destroy energy in this universe. Also not a black hole.

Many Parallel Universes.

There are tons of theories about parallel universes, but the most accepted one these days involves an evolution of the ideas of string theory to involve membranes that vibrate in other dimensions. One of the weirdest elements of the theory is the idea that all the gravity we experience in our universe is actually leaking into it from another universe in another dimension (which explains why gravity here seems so weak compared to the other fundamental forces).

And what kind of experiment is someone able to do with this ideas? How to falsify this "theories" - or should we call it "plausible mathematical constructions"? The string theory seems to be fascinating for some people - but never said anyone anything with this theory, what could produce an experiment where someone was able to falsify this theory. Scientific theories about nature which are not able to be wrong are worthless.

They aren't worthless. They provide other possible explanations where in the past all anyone could ever think was "must be god". Of course these are just speculations from some of the brightest minds on the planet. No one is saying black holes create universes.

But it did sound like you were saying they don't. Really? You know that?

 

[sealybobo]

So there has to be some reason we are spiritually hard wired the way we are.

By it's very nature... pardon the pun... Spiritual Nature is not physical or doesn't have physical existence in objective physical reality.

just a note boss, you might someday try and understand that Spirituality and physiology are not related ... it would help the Spiritual cause, home boy.

You've created something from nothing. God. Does that make you God?

You've is the possibility, for a god ... just don't mess with the Almighty.

.

Spiritual and physical are related and connected. When you love someone and you get a boner for example.

 

[sealybobo]

But don't worry because 5 universes are born every second in the infinite cosmos

Uh, dude, the "cosmos" is our Universe. I think you meant to say "5 galaxies are born every second" although I don't know where you pulled that number from.

Definition of COSMOS
the cosmos : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system

What do you call the universes outside of our universe?

Universes. A cosmos is the Universe. You can't have a universe inside a universe.

If there are other universes what would you call them? I call everything the cosmos because you confuse our universe with everything.

In order for you to understand there could be more you first have to realize there might be more. This is what people didn't do back when they came up with the God hypothesis

God is not a hypothese but a prophetic revelation - and science is not able to be a religion without destroying science. And for the most people in the world is it completly unimportant wether they live in a universe or in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl. If someone believes to live in a krxtsrstmpfgtrrrl this makes not anyone to a good or bad Christian nor makes such a discussion the christian religion to a good or bad thing. But nevertheless modern science found lots of things what we believe. The universe has indeed a beginning for example. And nothing what is not in interaction with anything else is in this universe here existing. You could for example stay in the middle of the sun - if the sun interacts not with you, then she would not exist for you and you not for her. So universe, ordered universe and cosmos is the same. The ancient Greeks thought before the cosmos was created the chaos was created. This "ancient" chaos is not the modern chaos of selfreflexive nonlinear mathematical structures, we are speaking today about in this context. The "ancient" chaos was for example hot and cold the same time so no one was able to say wether it was hot or cold. The ancient Greeks said about their chaos that even the eye of the most blessed wisest seer was not able to take a look through this chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: One day started to draw through the chaos a glowing glimmer and a shining shimmer - this came from Eros - the god of heavenly love - the first of all gods.

Prophecy fulfillment is a popular argument that bibliolaters rely on in trying to prove the divine inspiration of the Bible. They claim that the Bible is filled with recorded events that prophets foretold years and even centuries before they happened. They argue that there is no way to explain how these predictions could have been so accurately made except to conclude that the Holy Spirit enabled the prophets who uttered them to see into the future. In prophecy fulfillment, then, they see evidence of God's direct involvement in the writing of the Bible.

A very simple flaw in the prophecy-fulfillment argument is that foreseeing the future doesn't necessarily prove divine guidance. Psychics have existed in every generation, and some of them have demonstrated amazing abilities to predict future events. Their "powers," although mystifying to those who witness them, are not usually considered divine in origin. If, then, Old Testament prophets did on occasions foresee the future (a questionable premise at best), perhaps they were merely the Nostradamuses and Edgar Cayces of their day. Why would it necessarily follow that they were divinely inspired? Even the Bible recognizes the possibility that uninspired prophets can sometimes accurately predict the future:

 

[Divine Wind]

Bet you never watched the Cosmos. And if you did, you didn't understand what you were watching. But feel free to continue calling me ignorant. I think it is funny because your little brain can't wrap your mind around what I'm telling you. You remind me of people who thought the universe all revolved around us because we were clearly in a fixed position and everything else was revolving around us. Must have all been made for us.

But continue to tell me how smart you are and then tell me how you believe in invisible gods that talk to you in the next breath.

You're wrong again. In fact, I watched both the Sagan version and the deGrasseTyson version. Feel free to insult away. I'm content to let others decide which of us is the bigger fucking moron.

 

[sealybobo]

Bet you never watched the Cosmos. And if you did, you didn't understand what you were watching. But feel free to continue calling me ignorant. I think it is funny because your little brain can't wrap your mind around what I'm telling you. You remind me of people who thought the universe all revolved around us because we were clearly in a fixed position and everything else was revolving around us. Must have all been made for us.

But continue to tell me how smart you are and then tell me how you believe in invisible gods that talk to you in the next breath.

You're wrong again. In fact, I watched both the Sagan version and the deGrasseTyson version. Feel free to insult away. I'm content to let others decide which of us is the bigger fucking moron.

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to. But I'm glad to have you join the conversation. Are you a christian? Do you believe in God? Do you think god is a fact?

Didn't our little argument start because I referred to the Cosmos when I was referring to the infinite universe beyond our seeable universe? Why did that bother you so bad? What is your problem? Are you angry we don't believe in your god? Please catch me up. I need to know what level of retard I'm dealing with.

 

[sealybobo]

Bet you never watched the Cosmos. And if you did, you didn't understand what you were watching. But feel free to continue calling me ignorant. I think it is funny because your little brain can't wrap your mind around what I'm telling you. You remind me of people who thought the universe all revolved around us because we were clearly in a fixed position and everything else was revolving around us. Must have all been made for us.

But continue to tell me how smart you are and then tell me how you believe in invisible gods that talk to you in the next breath.

You're wrong again. In fact, I watched both the Sagan version and the deGrasseTyson version. Feel free to insult away. I'm content to let others decide which of us is the bigger fucking moron.

I feel like I'm having an argument with someone I don't even know anything about. Have we had a conversation in the past?

 

[Divine Wind]

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to.....

Obviously you care....a lot. Otherwise you wouldn't be tossing such a fit.

 

[sealybobo]

But don't worry because 5 universes are born every second in the infinite cosmos

Uh, dude, the "cosmos" is our Universe. I think you meant to say "5 galaxies are born every second" although I don't know where you pulled that number from.

Definition of COSMOS
the cosmos : the universe especially when it is understood as an ordered system

And actually, you are correct. The cosmos usually refers to what we see. I'm sorry. From now on I'll call what I'm talking about the unobservable universe.

The "outside the universe" question gets tricky right off the bat, because first you have to define the universe. One common answer is called the observable universe, and it's defined by the speed of light. Since we can only see things when the light they emit or reflect reaches us, we can never see farther than the farthest distance light can travel in the time the universe has existed. That means the observable universe keeps getting bigger, but it is finite – the amount is sometimes referred to as the Hubble Volume, after the telescope that has given us our most distant views of the universe. We'll never be able to see beyond that boundary, so for all intents and purposes, it's the only universe we'll ever interact with.


Beyond the Hubble Volume. We know with some certainty that there's "more universe" out there beyond that boundary, though. Astronomers think space might be infinite, with "stuff"http://io9.gizmodo.com/5799335/five-weird-theories-of-what-lies-outside-the-universe

 

[Boss]

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to.....

Obviously you care....a lot. Otherwise you wouldn't be tossing such a fit.

This guy spends hours upon hours here, every week for the past several years... arguing the same exact things over and over again. He never fails to find the "God" threads and interject his stupidity gleaned from Neil deGrasse Tyson, whom he apparently idolizes as some kind of prophet.

When he is not copy-n-pasting propaganda found at his favorite atheist blogs, he is bouncing around like a bunny rabbit on the question of God... He doesn't exist... he may exist... he exists, but is a certain way... he doesn't know for sure if he exists... back to, he doesn't think he exists. He has previously admitted he believes in "Karma" ...a purely spiritual idea. He repeatedly talks about "eternal" and "infinite" as if these are measurable scientific empirical quantities and not spiritual philosophies that transcend the physical.

Lately, one of his more annoying memes is to regurgitate these wild speculative "theories" that have absolutely no scientific evidence to support them... (they are basically just predictions made by quantum physics) But he posts these things as if they are proven facts of Science... I guess because Tyson told him so?

 

[sealybobo]

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to.....

Obviously you care....a lot. Otherwise you wouldn't be tossing such a fit.

I care just as much as religious people who think the god hypothesis is good for us, I'm just the opposite. I think it is bad for us. Sure there's a lot of good that comes from Religion. If there wasn't then it would have gone away a long time ago.

Today they were talking about what the Middle East needs to do in order to become part of the civilized world. The guy was saying they need to separate their government and their religion. We see in Orlando what happens when crazy religious people are convinced that gays are the problem with our society. Crazy mother fuckers get so crazy that they take out 50 and put 50 more in the hospital. Or 9-11 where they killed 3000 people and were convinced they would go to heaven for their actions.

America isn't anywhere near as bad as that. But don't forget in Florida it is still legal to fire someone for being lgbt. So we aren't that much better.

Did You Know It's Legal In Most States To Discriminate Against LGBT People?

But it's also legal in most states to discriminate against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender — LGBT — people in the areas of employment, housing and public accommodation.

So in many states, a person could marry someone of the same gender and then get fired for being gay.

"With limited or no federal protections, an LGBT person can get legally married in most states, but then be evicted from an apartment and denied a home loan."

Religious groups opposed to gay marriage argue that the public accommodation element would unfairly require business owners to serve same-sex couples, even if they have a moral or religious objection.

Until this stops, I am against religions. Even then I won't like them because I don't like a lie no matter how good it makes people feel.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to.....

Obviously you care....a lot. Otherwise you wouldn't be tossing such a fit.

This guy spends hours upon hours here, every week for the past several years... arguing the same exact things over and over again. He never fails to find the "God" threads and interject his stupidity gleaned from Neil deGrasse Tyson, whom he apparently idolizes as some kind of prophet.

When he is not copy-n-pasting propaganda found at his favorite atheist blogs, he is bouncing around like a bunny rabbit on the question of God... He doesn't exist... he may exist... he exists, but is a certain way... he doesn't know for sure if he exists... back to, he doesn't think he exists. He has previously admitted he believes in "Karma" ...a purely spiritual idea. He repeatedly talks about "eternal" and "infinite" as if these are measurable scientific empirical quantities and not spiritual philosophies that transcend the physical.

Lately, one of his more annoying memes is to regurgitate these wild speculative "theories" that have absolutely no scientific evidence to support them... (they are basically just predictions made by quantum physics) But he posts these things as if they are proven facts of Science... I guess because Tyson told him so?

Pot meet kettle. And I'd be willing to bet you spend more time on here than me asshole. Tyson is smarter than you.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't care what others decide. Do you?

In fact, who the fuck are you? What do you believe? I don't even know who the hell I'm talking to.....

Obviously you care....a lot. Otherwise you wouldn't be tossing such a fit.

This guy spends hours upon hours here, every week for the past several years... arguing the same exact things over and over again. He never fails to find the "God" threads and interject his stupidity gleaned from Neil deGrasse Tyson, whom he apparently idolizes as some kind of prophet.

When he is not copy-n-pasting propaganda found at his favorite atheist blogs, he is bouncing around like a bunny rabbit on the question of God... He doesn't exist... he may exist... he exists, but is a certain way... he doesn't know for sure if he exists... back to, he doesn't think he exists. He has previously admitted he believes in "Karma" ...a purely spiritual idea. He repeatedly talks about "eternal" and "infinite" as if these are measurable scientific empirical quantities and not spiritual philosophies that transcend the physical.

Lately, one of his more annoying memes is to regurgitate these wild speculative "theories" that have absolutely no scientific evidence to support them... (they are basically just predictions made by quantum physics) But he posts these things as if they are proven facts of Science... I guess because Tyson told him so?

You are just too stupid to understand what an agnostic atheist is. As much as I've told you, you just don't get it.

If you don't believe Jesus was God then you are atheist about that. But as far as this generic god you've been trying desperately to prove exists? Who knows. No one is taking your word for it and your arguments aren't convincing. Maybe Divine Wind will be your first cult member.

 

[sealybobo]

So you stick to science in regards to the order of the universe but it gets put away when you talk about your God

I think a lot of that depends upon what a person means by "God". To me it's a word to describe the power behind the creation of the Universe which burst into existence from a singularity about 13.77B years ago and when all the natural, unchanging laws of the Natural Universe originated.

If someone says the Universe is only 6000 years old, was created in 7 days and that Cain had sex with Eve (no other women around, amirite?) then that does conflict with what our knowledge of Creation tells us.

Don't you think it's confusing to us for you to refer to god as simply "the power behind the creation of the Universe", and nothing more, when you know very well what people think you mean when you use the word God? Does it care about sin? How do you know this? How do you even know what created the big bang is a god?

When you say god we think you are referring to the thing that talked to Moses or impregnated Mary or performs miracles or created a heaven and hell for us and cares about us and made us in his image. Are you?

So all you are saying is that "god" is the thing that created the universe? I'm thinking that falls in the god of the gaps argument. We may never know what that thing is so I guess until we do, feel free to call it god.

When we discover what that power is scientifically, will you still call it god?