How do you explain a ordered universe without a Creator?

[edthecynic]

more distant galaxies are moving away from us faster than closer ones.

That is the only fact in your post, the rest is just unproven speculation, just as my Big Crunch is also unproven speculation, and just as valid or invalid.

 

[westwall]

Simple question, really. Why do so many people have a problem with it? Think about it. Order cannot come from chaos. At least not in this universe. Every bit of scientific knowledge we possess says it just can't happen. The universe is extremely ordered. It also contains vast amounts of information. Information has one source. Intelligence. Earthly intelligence is also the result of information. Can you say catch 22? This proves that information has a source that is outside this universe. What is this source? I believe that it is God. Can you come up with any other explanation?

Because random chance, carried out quadrillions of times, is every bit as valid a cause.

 

[Slyhunter]

But the op assumes that the Universe is ordered. I'm saying it's not. How do you know it's ordered?

It follows rules even if we don't fully understand those rules.

Examples; the search for Higgs-Boson. The nature of dark matter and dark energy. The search for a unified field theory.

If you don't understand the rules how do you know they exist?

That's the purpose of science; to find out the rules.

But you can't say they exist if you haven't found them out yet. Your making an assumption.
Thus it is a chaotic universe.

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

 

[Divine Wind]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

Translation: No, I can't name a single fucking thing in the entire Universe which doesn't follow the laws of the Natural Universe. For making me look like an ignorant moron, I'll assume you are full of crap.

You are free to believe in unicorns, but most people who are interested understand I've posted several links supporting my opinion and you only posted your opinion.

 

[Lutroo]

It follows rules even if we don't fully understand those rules.

Examples; the search for Higgs-Boson. The nature of dark matter and dark energy. The search for a unified field theory.

If you don't understand the rules how do you know they exist?

That's the purpose of science; to find out the rules.

But you can't say they exist if you haven't found them out yet. Your making an assumption.
Thus it is a chaotic universe.

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

 

[Slyhunter]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

Translation: No, I can't name a single fucking thing in the entire Universe which doesn't follow the laws of the Natural Universe. For making me look like an ignorant moron, I'll assume you are full of crap.

You are free to believe in unicorns, but most people who are interested understand I've posted several links supporting my opinion and you only posted your opinion.

I'm not saying that some rules don't work some times. I'm saying you are full of shit.
It's a chaotic Universe. You can't prove it's an ordered universe. You can't list the rules this Ordered Universe abides by. Thus you are making it up.

 

[Slyhunter]

If you don't understand the rules how do you know they exist?

That's the purpose of science; to find out the rules.

But you can't say they exist if you haven't found them out yet. Your making an assumption.
Thus it is a chaotic universe.

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

 

[Lutroo]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

Translation: No, I can't name a single fucking thing in the entire Universe which doesn't follow the laws of the Natural Universe. For making me look like an ignorant moron, I'll assume you are full of crap.

You are free to believe in unicorns, but most people who are interested understand I've posted several links supporting my opinion and you only posted your opinion.

I'm not saying that some rules don't work some times. I'm saying you are full of shit.
It's a chaotic Universe. You can't prove it's an ordered universe. You can't list the rules this Ordered Universe abides by. Thus you are making it up.

Never mind. I see your armor is impregnable. No use continuing this discussion. You'll never get it.

 

[Divine Wind]

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

Thanks for the link.

Laws and rules, in this instance, are the same. Purely semantics. The main point is whether we live in a chaotic universe or one that follows laws/rules. Obviously, as your link points out, we live in an ordered universe.

 

[Lutroo]

That's the purpose of science; to find out the rules.

But you can't say they exist if you haven't found them out yet. Your making an assumption.
Thus it is a chaotic universe.

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

I posted a partial list because there are quite a few more physical constants. I didn't want to overwhelm you. These are the very forces of nature that determine how our universe operates, all the way down to the Quantum level. How did you get so ignorant? Did you do drugs? Was your airway obstructed during the birthing process? Did your dad hit you in the head a lot? What?

 

[Lutroo]

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

Thanks for the link.

Laws and rules, in this instance, are the same. Purely semantics. The main point is whether we live in a chaotic universe or one that follows laws/rules. Obviously, as your link points out, we live in an ordered universe.

And atheists have no explanation as to why these laws exist. I guess they're happier not knowing. The truth would obviously cause them great distress. The fact that there is a Creator, and he wants them to repent for disobeying Him. Some people just can't handle that. So they will believe any lie, in order to sleep at night. On some level, they know the truth. That is why they resist acknowledging it with every fiber of their being.

 

[Divine Wind]

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

Thanks for the link.

Laws and rules, in this instance, are the same. Purely semantics. The main point is whether we live in a chaotic universe or one that follows laws/rules. Obviously, as your link points out, we live in an ordered universe.

And atheists have no explanation as to why these laws exist. I guess they're happier not knowing. The truth would obviously cause them great distress. The fact that there is a Creator, and he wants them to repent for disobeying Him. Some people just can't handle that. So they will believe any lie, in order to sleep at night. On some level, they know the truth. That is why they resist acknowledging it with every fiber of their being.

It appears there a high level of denial in their replies. While you and I can have our beliefs about where the laws/rules of the Natural Universe originate and why, there is no doubt they exist. We are all limited by those rules and no one, be they atheist or theist, can show something that does not adhere to those rules/laws.

 

[Lutroo]

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

Thanks for the link.

Laws and rules, in this instance, are the same. Purely semantics. The main point is whether we live in a chaotic universe or one that follows laws/rules. Obviously, as your link points out, we live in an ordered universe.

And atheists have no explanation as to why these laws exist. I guess they're happier not knowing. The truth would obviously cause them great distress. The fact that there is a Creator, and he wants them to repent for disobeying Him. Some people just can't handle that. So they will believe any lie, in order to sleep at night. On some level, they know the truth. That is why they resist acknowledging it with every fiber of their being.

It appears there a high level of denial in their replies. While you and I can have our beliefs about where the laws/rules of the Natural Universe originate and why, there is no doubt they exist. We are all limited by those rules and no one, be they atheist or theist, can show something that does not adhere to those rules/laws.

And there are those who believe that they are above the law. No matter where those laws originate from. I sometimes wonder how many people would believe in the theory of evolution, if the only other alternative was not "God did it?"

 

[Slyhunter]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

Translation: No, I can't name a single fucking thing in the entire Universe which doesn't follow the laws of the Natural Universe. For making me look like an ignorant moron, I'll assume you are full of crap.

You are free to believe in unicorns, but most people who are interested understand I've posted several links supporting my opinion and you only posted your opinion.

I'm not saying that some rules don't work some times. I'm saying you are full of shit.
It's a chaotic Universe. You can't prove it's an ordered universe. You can't list the rules this Ordered Universe abides by. Thus you are making it up.

Never mind. I see your armor is impregnable. No use continuing this discussion. You'll never get it.

in other words your incapable of being able to prove it's an ordered universe and the premise of this thread is false.

 

[Slyhunter]

But you can't say they exist if you haven't found them out yet. Your making an assumption.
Thus it is a chaotic universe.

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

I posted a partial list because there are quite a few more physical constants. I didn't want to overwhelm you. These are the very forces of nature that determine how our universe operates, all the way down to the Quantum level. How did you get so ignorant? Did you do drugs? Was your airway obstructed during the birthing process? Did your dad hit you in the head a lot? What?

Proof that this universe is chaotic.

 

[Lutroo]

Everything in the Universe follows rules. Feel free to name a single thing that does not. No hurry, I'm patient.

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

I posted a partial list because there are quite a few more physical constants. I didn't want to overwhelm you. These are the very forces of nature that determine how our universe operates, all the way down to the Quantum level. How did you get so ignorant? Did you do drugs? Was your airway obstructed during the birthing process? Did your dad hit you in the head a lot? What?

Proof that this universe is chaotic.

No. It's proof that you cannot defend your position with anything that resembles hard evidence. You haven't even tried. You offered nothing more than personal attacks. How pathetic. Sucks to be you, doesn't it?

 

[Slyhunter]

If you knew that you would be able to list what those rules are here. But since you can't I'll assume you're full of crap.

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

I posted a partial list because there are quite a few more physical constants. I didn't want to overwhelm you. These are the very forces of nature that determine how our universe operates, all the way down to the Quantum level. How did you get so ignorant? Did you do drugs? Was your airway obstructed during the birthing process? Did your dad hit you in the head a lot? What?

Proof that this universe is chaotic.

No. It's proof that you cannot defend your position with anything that resembles hard evidence. You haven't even tried. You offered nothing more than personal attacks. How pathetic. Sucks to be you, doesn't it?

You need proof to prove a positive before I need proof to prove a negative.
You have failed to prove it's an ordered universe. Thus it is a chaotic one. One where someone can be dropped on their head, or an obstructed airway during birthing, ie chaotic.

 

[Lutroo]

For your edification, here is a partial list of the LAWS that the universe obeys. Notice that I said laws. Not rules, as you so incorrectly put it.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/funcon.html

partial. If it was ordered you would have a complete list. Otherwise it is chaotic. If it's partially chaotic it is chaotic.

I posted a partial list because there are quite a few more physical constants. I didn't want to overwhelm you. These are the very forces of nature that determine how our universe operates, all the way down to the Quantum level. How did you get so ignorant? Did you do drugs? Was your airway obstructed during the birthing process? Did your dad hit you in the head a lot? What?

Proof that this universe is chaotic.

No. It's proof that you cannot defend your position with anything that resembles hard evidence. You haven't even tried. You offered nothing more than personal attacks. How pathetic. Sucks to be you, doesn't it?

You need proof to prove a positive before I need proof to prove a negative.
You have failed to prove it's an ordered universe. Thus it is a chaotic one. One where someone can be dropped on their head, or an obstructed airway during birthing, ie chaotic.

It has been proven. Everything that happens in our universe is the result of matter and energy obeying the universal physical constants. You may see something that looks chaotic, but it is actually a series of smaller events obeying the laws of physics. It is a given that the universe is a ordered place. Otherwise we could not use the scientific method to discover how our universe works. You might want to grab a basic science primer and read it. Educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me, and every other thinking person on this forum.

 

[edthecynic]

And atheists have no explanation as to why these laws exist. I guess they're happier not knowing. The truth would obviously cause them great distress.

Actually that knife cuts both ways, the Atheist would argue that they are the natural order that not even your God can violate. And if you claim your God is above all natural laws they would simply say, "prove it."
P.S.- To an Atheist, declaring it to be so is NOT a proof.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Let's see, now. On one hand, we have a collection of writings that are 2,000 to 3,000 years old written by people who who would be considered barely literate and certainly ignorant, by our standards, which is the sole source of our information about god that we have. On the other hand, we have the sum accumulated knowledge of man, gathered over thousands of years, and growing every day which has explained mysteries of the universe that we did not have a clue about, even as recently as 25 years ago.

Hmmmmmm.....