How do you feel the standoff in Washington would best resolved?

[cpcreativity]

Figure out how to live with a tax increase and the dollar decreasing in value.

Well first off a tax increase of any rate that has been talked about would not effect the standard of living as much as people hype it up to. Secondly, I believe that our dollar's value would rise if we were even slightly surplussed.

Higher Taxes combined with $4.00 plus at the pump for starters... You're absolutely right -the middle class is doing just fine, and it's all hype. Sure thing.

Was referring to upper class taxation. With all due respect, read the rest of the posts and you will see this is a discussion about the effects of it. In the end we rested on the idea of a flat tax to take leverage away from politicians and my ideal of the rich paying a slightly higher percentage than the rest was a charitable, personal issue. My logic that if I were rich, then I would gladly pay more should not be forcibly passed onto everyone else. If I want to give more I can do so in the form of a donation on top of the suggested flat tax mentioned previously.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm probably not the only guy in the world that has worked collections. I DO know how to recover money when there is no nice option.

I am not going to follow the economic gymnastics that closely. I'll just go by whether or not they make good on my agreed SS payments.

Getting mad here is stupid. Talking tough here is stupid. You in the peanut gallery just enjoy thinking someone else is at risk either way. Seriously I don't care if you get what you pay/payed for or not any more than you give a rat's ass if I get mine. As far as I know and believe there are no "victims" in DC. They can be as stupid with YOUR money as they want and YOU allow. Like I said... I'll get mine.

The feeble old dog abuser trying to play tough guy again! Too funny!

What a clown.

 

[cpcreativity]

The recent posts targeting each other and insulting are despicable. In somewhat of a pipe-dream I honestly thought there might be some more positive conversation than I've seen. There is no reason to attack and ridicule a person of a different mindset regardless of how passionate you are about yours.

People are spewing generalizations and in most cases have very little factual or historical or any kind of evidence except bland economic concepts. Arguing back and forth about (for instance) whether higher taxes and government (stimulus, etc.) can create sustainable job growth or if it falls on lower taxes and the private sector should not be restating that the general concept.

For instance, an argument against lowering taxes and relying on the private sector could be in pointing out that Bush did in fact lower taxes (obviously) giving the private sector its lowest rate in a long while and paid for two wars on what could be called a credit card. For the first time in history, we went to war without raising taxes at home to help finance it. We counted on the private sector (free market) to grow the economy and instead got a fake increase followed by a detrimental crash.

In saying this, I have made a point siding with higher taxes purely to create a discussion about other factors effecting this or even disproving my statements as the reason for our financial collapse.

Just trying to stimulate more constructive conversation.

 

[HUGGY]

I'm probably not the only guy in the world that has worked collections. I DO know how to recover money when there is no nice option.

I am not going to follow the economic gymnastics that closely. I'll just go by whether or not they make good on my agreed SS payments.

Getting mad here is stupid. Talking tough here is stupid. You in the peanut gallery just enjoy thinking someone else is at risk either way. Seriously I don't care if you get what you pay/payed for or not any more than you give a rat's ass if I get mine. As far as I know and believe there are no "victims" in DC. They can be as stupid with YOUR money as they want and YOU allow. Like I said... I'll get mine.

The feeble old dog abuser trying to play tough guy again! Too funny!

What a clown.

Well ya never know till ya get tested... There may/will come a day when I can do nothing about it...but that day is not today.

You can always swing by and give your speculation a try. How would I know if you are not one of the drunks or junkies I run outta here on a regular basis? Do me a favor and tattoo your avie on your forhead for identification purposes if you think you might ever want to trade in your bs for a reality check.

 

[saveliberty]

The recent posts targeting each other and insulting are despicable. In somewhat of a pipe-dream I honestly thought there might be some more positive conversation than I've seen. There is no reason to attack and ridicule a person of a different mindset regardless of how passionate you are about yours.

People are spewing generalizations and in most cases have very little factual or historical or any kind of evidence except bland economic concepts. Arguing back and forth about (for instance) whether higher taxes and government (stimulus, etc.) can create sustainable job growth or if it falls on lower taxes and the private sector should not be restating that the general concept.

For instance, an argument against lowering taxes and relying on the private sector could be in pointing out that Bush did in fact lower taxes (obviously) giving the private sector its lowest rate in a long while and paid for two wars on what could be called a credit card. For the first time in history, we went to war without raising taxes at home to help finance it. We counted on the private sector (free market) to grow the economy and instead got a fake increase followed by a detrimental crash.

In saying this, I have made a point siding with higher taxes purely to create a discussion about other factors effecting this or even disproving my statements as the reason for our financial collapse.

Just trying to stimulate more constructive conversation.

Cody, you were one of the things I wanted to check up on this afternoon. Glad you are still here! I went with my daughter and granddaughter to get some genetic testing results. Fortunately, we were given good news. Still have a cleft palate to correct, but we can handle that.

I was listening to a Congressman named Coburn on CSPAN last week. He described huge amounts of unneeded spending that occurs in Congress. Some of it was pork barrel, some were duplicate programs that could have been handled by fewer adminstrators. He also said Congress is really bad at oversight and creating benchmarks these programs need to reach in order to continue funding. These would be the very first ideas and areas I would look to for change and cuts.

After that, it is across the board pain. Everyone needs to share the burden WE created. Once the government shows us they are good stewards of our money, we need to raise taxes on the middle class and rich to aggressively reduce our debt.

Hope you continue to post here. This has been one of our better discussions on the topic in a while.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm probably not the only guy in the world that has worked collections. I DO know how to recover money when there is no nice option.

I am not going to follow the economic gymnastics that closely. I'll just go by whether or not they make good on my agreed SS payments.

Getting mad here is stupid. Talking tough here is stupid. You in the peanut gallery just enjoy thinking someone else is at risk either way. Seriously I don't care if you get what you pay/payed for or not any more than you give a rat's ass if I get mine. As far as I know and believe there are no "victims" in DC. They can be as stupid with YOUR money as they want and YOU allow. Like I said... I'll get mine.

The feeble old dog abuser trying to play tough guy again! Too funny!

What a clown.

Well ya never know till ya get tested... There may/will come a day when I can do nothing about it...but that day is not today.

You can always swing by and give your speculation a try. How would I know if you are not one of the drunks or junkies I run outta here on a regular basis? Do me a favor and tattoo your avie on your forhead for identification purposes if you think you might ever want to trade in your bs for a reality check.

Hey old man, does that hilarious nonsense make you feel better about your impotence and insignificance? Maybe not as good as abusing those poor dogs, huh?

Be careful you don't let your little fantasies lead you into trouble old man, because trying to play tough guy on a message board won't make you any less of a weak, vulnerable old fool in the real world. You'd be safer on your little raft than walking around with your delusions, champ. Better off for those poor dogs too.

You truly are a clown.

 

[Unkotare]

I hope you didn't get your new shorts dirty, 'huggy'

 

[HUGGY]

The feeble old dog abuser trying to play tough guy again! Too funny!

What a clown.

Well ya never know till ya get tested... There may/will come a day when I can do nothing about it...but that day is not today.

You can always swing by and give your speculation a try. How would I know if you are not one of the drunks or junkies I run outta here on a regular basis? Do me a favor and tattoo your avie on your forhead for identification purposes if you think you might ever want to trade in your bs for a reality check.

Hey old man, does that hilarious nonsense make you feel better about your impotence and insignificance? Maybe not as good as abusing those poor dogs, huh?

Be careful you don't let your little fantasies lead you into trouble old man, because trying to play tough guy on a message board won't make you any less of a weak, vulnerable old fool in the real world. You'd be safer on your little raft than walking around with your delusions, champ. Better off for those poor dogs too.

You truly are a clown.

Am I supposed to be impressed with some fag on the internet that has been squeeling like a little girl from day one? Why do you invest so much time playing the board bitch ass punk pussy when you could easily find out what you are made of? These drunks , junkies , drug dealers and gang bangers are at least TRYING to prove themselves. Like they say.."you can't win if you don't play". Your big mouth doesn't buy you a ticket bitch.

 

[Unkotare]

Well ya never know till ya get tested... There may/will come a day when I can do nothing about it...but that day is not today.

You can always swing by and give your speculation a try. How would I know if you are not one of the drunks or junkies I run outta here on a regular basis? Do me a favor and tattoo your avie on your forhead for identification purposes if you think you might ever want to trade in your bs for a reality check.

Hey old man, does that hilarious nonsense make you feel better about your impotence and insignificance? Maybe not as good as abusing those poor dogs, huh?

Be careful you don't let your little fantasies lead you into trouble old man, because trying to play tough guy on a message board won't make you any less of a weak, vulnerable old fool in the real world. You'd be safer on your little raft than walking around with your delusions, champ. Better off for those poor dogs too.

You truly are a clown.

Am I supposed to be impressed with some fag on the internet that has been squeeling like a little girl from day one? Why do you invest so much time playing the board bitch ass punk pussy when you could easily find out what you are made of? These drunks , junkies , drug dealers and gang bangers are at least TRYING to prove themselves. Like they say.."you can't win if you don't play". Your big mouth doesn't buy you a ticket bitch.

RrrraaaAAAaaahhhh! How tough are you old man? Can you rip your AARP card in half all by yourself? Is your Lifealert braclet made of titanium? Does your walker have cool flames painted on the sides? Damn, what a badass!!!!!

 

[Unkotare]

It's so amusing when the old poseur gets it in his rapidly deteriorating head to play the tough guy! I just hope he doesn't forget himself and get hurt in the real world some day. (Or do I? Nah, I don't)

 

[saveliberty]

Can you two get a room, boxing ring or something?

 

[Oldstyle]

The fact is...they spent all the money we sent them as tax revenue. So they stole money from the Social Security general fund to keep on spending on even more government programs...giving us worthless IOU's in return. How do you think they're going to pay that money back when they don't have enough to fund the day to day costs of the government? Come on Huggy...wake the fuck up!!! Your government stole from you and you were too stupid to even know it happened!

Ya ...OK ...whatever. I think you two are full of shit but I won't whip this dead horse. I'm probably not the only guy in the world that has worked collections. I DO know how to recover money when there is no nice option.

I am not going to follow the economic gymnastics that closely. I'll just go by whether or not they make good on my agreed SS payments.

Getting mad here is stupid. Talking tough here is stupid. You in the peanut gallery just enjoy thinking someone else is at risk either way. Seriously I don't care if you get what you pay/payed for or not any more than you give a rat's ass if I get mine. As far as I know and believe there are no "victims" in DC. They can be as stupid with YOUR money as they want and YOU allow. Like I said... I'll get mine.

Oh, so now you're going to "knee cap" the Federal Government, Huggy? You can't possibly be this stupid.

 

[Unkotare]

Can you two get a room, boxing ring or something?

I think 'huggy' already has a room, but boxing doesn't start until after Bingo and Shuffle-board.

 

[Unkotare]

The fact is...they spent all the money we sent them as tax revenue. So they stole money from the Social Security general fund to keep on spending on even more government programs...giving us worthless IOU's in return. How do you think they're going to pay that money back when they don't have enough to fund the day to day costs of the government? Come on Huggy...wake the fuck up!!! Your government stole from you and you were too stupid to even know it happened!

Ya ...OK ...whatever. I think you two are full of shit but I won't whip this dead horse. I'm probably not the only guy in the world that has worked collections. I DO know how to recover money when there is no nice option.

I am not going to follow the economic gymnastics that closely. I'll just go by whether or not they make good on my agreed SS payments.

Getting mad here is stupid. Talking tough here is stupid. You in the peanut gallery just enjoy thinking someone else is at risk either way. Seriously I don't care if you get what you pay/payed for or not any more than you give a rat's ass if I get mine. As far as I know and believe there are no "victims" in DC. They can be as stupid with YOUR money as they want and YOU allow. Like I said... I'll get mine.

Oh, so now you're going to "knee cap" the Federal Government, Huggy? You can't possibly be this stupid.

He's a geriatric badass!!!

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm picturing Huggy out in front of the White House shaking his fist and screaming: "Hey...You'se guys took my money and I want it back! Don't make me come over this fence gawd dang it! I got my baseball bat! You'se guys listening in there?"

Then I'm picturing a big van pulling up and men in white coats jumping out holding a straight jacket and a net.

Bye bye, Huggy...

 

[cpcreativity]

Cody, you were one of the things I wanted to check up on this afternoon. Glad you are still here! I went with my daughter and granddaughter to get some genetic testing results. Fortunately, we were given good news. Still have a cleft palate to correct, but we can handle that.

I was listening to a Congressman named Coburn on CSPAN last week. He described huge amounts of unneeded spending that occurs in Congress. Some of it was pork barrel, some were duplicate programs that could have been handled by fewer adminstrators. He also said Congress is really bad at oversight and creating benchmarks these programs need to reach in order to continue funding. These would be the very first ideas and areas I would look to for change and cuts.

After that, it is across the board pain. Everyone needs to share the burden WE created. Once the government shows us they are good stewards of our money, we need to raise taxes on the middle class and rich to aggressively reduce our debt.

Hope you continue to post here. This has been one of our better discussions on the topic in a while.

That is wonderful news saveliberty. I am not sure what the alternatives were, but judging by your post, I don't need to know and I am happy to hear that everything is well.

To start, the idea that programs (from federal all the way down to local police forces) have to spend a certain amount of what they were allotted by the current budget or they LOSE a percentage of what was deemed "excess funding." With this rule, they will always spend the maximum they can and this creates a wasteful attitude. This should be changed to something resembling roll-over minutes on a cellphone plan. If they are spending well under what they have been allotted however, I would suggest negotiations as to how better structure their funding.

Secondly, as for the concept of wasteful spending apart from the ridiculous "use it or lose it" attitude, it is true that there is budget abuse across the board. The idea, for instance, that we should send more funding over to defense programs WITHOUT THEM EVEN REQUESTING ANY is ridiculous. This is something from the Obama campaign that resonated with me. Whether or not Obama's ticket was any different doesn't matter, the point is that the defense commission and program decision-makers did not request more funding and should not receive anymore because of this. In fact, I see this as evidence of at least a slight excess of spending on our defense budget. This is just one example of what I could see being a widespread issue (I agree with saveliberty).

As for the raising taxes concept. I agree. It may be naive and liberal sounding to say, but I believe in sacrificing my own to tribute back into the government, even with its flaws and mistakes that we all know have gotten pretty bad sometimes, that has kept our standard of living well above most, if not all else, in the world. However, the point that our government needs to prove its modern-day worth monetarily and its modern-day trustworthiness is a valid one and I agree completely.

Another idea that I found being first introduced to me in a form from Warren Buffet (as mentioned earlier on this thread), is a minimum tax rate for all Americans. This combined with eliminating deductions and loopholes would be a very effective way to ensure fair treatment of all and still fund enough of the government so we don't collapse. Warren's suggestion of a minimum of 30% is a bit extreme and would rather see a minimum set of 25% or so, but I do believe capital gains could be raised a percent or two or at least solidified at a minimum of 15%.


Again, I can't stress enough that I would love to hear potential downsides and coherent, well-thought out, educated, fact-based arguments supporting the contrary.


P.S. I hope I quoted saveliberty correctly (if not, my apologies and the above quote was that of saveliberty).

 

[cpcreativity]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

 

[HUGGY]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

You can ditch the nonsense by posting your serious threads in the "Clean Debate Zone".

 

[Oldstyle]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

 

[Lakhota]

Unkotare, HUGGY, and Oldstyle, please stop the useless badgering and dung slinging. I do not want it on the thread I started to create positive and forward thinking conversation, thank you.

I'm just teasing Huggy, CP...he tends to get a bit "bellicose" on the site.

Here's my only problem with your willingness to go along with tax increases to address the deficit...I agree with you that most Americans would be willing to pony up more in taxes if they saw that money actually going towards deficit reduction but to be quite honest with you that's NOT what being proposed by this Administration. What we're being asked to do is take more money out of the private sector and give it to the public sector to be wasted on more governmental waste while the deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.

The truth is...Washington is almost incapable of cutting government programs but until they start doing so...any additional taxes that you collect will go towards a bigger and more wasteful Federal government and I'm NOT willing to give up my hard earned money for THAT.

Can you provide us with some "credible" backup and links for your claims?