How do you "just know?"

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

So you do "just know" that you don't know . See you already completely understand how that dude "just knows" what he knows.....

Sorry I couldn't resist

It doesn't make sense - nice try though sir.

You believe everything didn't come from nothing but don't believe in religion....how do you know this? How do you just know?

Think about it....you already know the answer to your question if you just open up a bit and reflect.

 

[G.T.]

So you do "just know" that you don't know . See you already completely understand how that dude "just knows" what he knows.....

Sorry I couldn't resist

It doesn't make sense - nice try though sir.

You believe everything didn't come from nothing but don't believe in religion....how do you know this? How do you just know?

Think about it....you already know the answer to your question if you just open up a bit and reflect.

I don't "just know," which is why your question doesn't work.

I "know" because of reasons x y and z, which are not what this thread is about. One of those "xyz" are that in my entire observable life "something" has never been produced from "nothing."

The discussion is not about that, though and I'd appreciate not going down a seperate road within my thread.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It doesn't make sense - nice try though sir.

You believe everything didn't come from nothing but don't believe in religion....how do you know this? How do you just know?

Think about it....you already know the answer to your question if you just open up a bit and reflect.

I don't "just know," which is why your question doesn't work.

I "know" because of reasons x y and z, which are not what this thread is about. One of those "xyz" are that in my entire observable life "something" has never been produced from "nothing."

The discussion is not about that, though and I'd appreciate not going down a seperate road within my thread.

oh so you were just trying to question how people have faith in things they can't observe....old hat 100 threads already dude.

 

[Newby]

Some of us are not sucked into the mass illusion and must be shown.
So far no show on the convincing of me there is anything beyond this life.

I was in College, and we all went to a Cemetary that was "supposedly" Haunted. It's called Pinewoods Cemetary, formerly Forest Park Cemetary.

There was about 14 of us.

We were all hanging out in the open, and decided to move the party to the Mauseleum(sp?) area.

As a group, we were walking across a big field, cut grass.

A friend and I were saying how Ghosts and stuff are bullshit, etc.

Then every single person in the entire group was witness to a pair of legs, glowing, running in front of us all and into the tree line. Actually glowing, like in the cheesey ghost movies. One drunk kid tried chasing them and got broke. They were roughly ten feet in front of us.

The group was giggley after that, as opposed to scared.

Years went by - the confidence in my actually ever having been there and seen that diminishing each day.

Then my sister (who I didn't realize was also there) brings it up recently out of no where.

This is one of three supernatural experiences in my life - and despite seeing the hard evidence I *still* have trouble believing in ghosts.

I just look at the complexity and complete organization of the solar system, the planet, the different ecological systems, etc... all the way down to the microscopic cell and DNA. After humans labeling all of this as 'systems', organized functioning units that all work together to keep life going, how can you not wonder at there being a creator or intellgent designer of some kind? The odds are far more in favor of that than coincidence in my opinion.

 

[G.T.]

Some of us are not sucked into the mass illusion and must be shown.
So far no show on the convincing of me there is anything beyond this life.

I was in College, and we all went to a Cemetary that was "supposedly" Haunted. It's called Pinewoods Cemetary, formerly Forest Park Cemetary.

There was about 14 of us.

We were all hanging out in the open, and decided to move the party to the Mauseleum(sp?) area.

As a group, we were walking across a big field, cut grass.

A friend and I were saying how Ghosts and stuff are bullshit, etc.

Then every single person in the entire group was witness to a pair of legs, glowing, running in front of us all and into the tree line. Actually glowing, like in the cheesey ghost movies. One drunk kid tried chasing them and got broke. They were roughly ten feet in front of us.

The group was giggley after that, as opposed to scared.

Years went by - the confidence in my actually ever having been there and seen that diminishing each day.

Then my sister (who I didn't realize was also there) brings it up recently out of no where.

This is one of three supernatural experiences in my life - and despite seeing the hard evidence I *still* have trouble believing in ghosts.

I just look at the complexity and complete organization of the solar system, the planet, the different ecological systems, etc... all the way down to the microscopic cell and DNA. After humans labeling all of this as 'systems', organized functioning units that all work together to keep life going, how can you not wonder at there being a creator or intellgent designer of some kind? The odds are far more in favor of that than coincidence in my opinion.

That's one way to look at it, but that way doesn't favor a Religion.

It also doesn't answer for imperfections....but that's neither here n'or there in terms of the discussion of "how to have faith."

I'm trying to arrive at a conclusion that someone with a similar "need proof" road block has overcome. Or not.

 

[G.T.]

You believe everything didn't come from nothing but don't believe in religion....how do you know this? How do you just know?

Think about it....you already know the answer to your question if you just open up a bit and reflect.

I don't "just know," which is why your question doesn't work.

I "know" because of reasons x y and z, which are not what this thread is about. One of those "xyz" are that in my entire observable life "something" has never been produced from "nothing."

The discussion is not about that, though and I'd appreciate not going down a seperate road within my thread.

oh so you were just trying to question how people have faith in things they can't observe....old hat 100 threads already dude.

no need for said comment.


a & b convo with that attitude. C your way outta heeya.

 

[LOki]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

"Just knowing" is a lie that insecure people tell themselves (and everybody better believe it, or else) to avoid saying "I don't know," or "I am uncertain."

 

[G.T.]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

"Just knowing" is a lie that insecure people tell themselves (and everybody better believe it, or else) to avoid saying "I don't know," or "I am uncertain."

ehh, could be but it's a bit of a stretch to claim to know what other people "truly" do or don't believe en masse.

Uncertainty is antithesis of Faith, too. Would be bad if 100% of Followers fell into the uncertainty category. Interesting.

 

[Newby]

I was in College, and we all went to a Cemetary that was "supposedly" Haunted. It's called Pinewoods Cemetary, formerly Forest Park Cemetary.

There was about 14 of us.

We were all hanging out in the open, and decided to move the party to the Mauseleum(sp?) area.

As a group, we were walking across a big field, cut grass.

A friend and I were saying how Ghosts and stuff are bullshit, etc.

Then every single person in the entire group was witness to a pair of legs, glowing, running in front of us all and into the tree line. Actually glowing, like in the cheesey ghost movies. One drunk kid tried chasing them and got broke. They were roughly ten feet in front of us.

The group was giggley after that, as opposed to scared.

Years went by - the confidence in my actually ever having been there and seen that diminishing each day.

Then my sister (who I didn't realize was also there) brings it up recently out of no where.

This is one of three supernatural experiences in my life - and despite seeing the hard evidence I *still* have trouble believing in ghosts.

I just look at the complexity and complete organization of the solar system, the planet, the different ecological systems, etc... all the way down to the microscopic cell and DNA. After humans labeling all of this as 'systems', organized functioning units that all work together to keep life going, how can you not wonder at there being a creator or intellgent designer of some kind? The odds are far more in favor of that than coincidence in my opinion.

That's one way to look at it, but that way doesn't favor a Religion.

It also doesn't answer for imperfections....but that's neither here n'or there in terms of the discussion of "how to have faith."

I'm trying to arrive at a conclusion that someone with a similar "need proof" road block has overcome. Or not.

No, it doesn't favor a specific religion, or even any guarantee that there is any life after this. But, I think it's strong evidence that at least one of them may be right. So, I guess it's up to you to decide which, if any, fits what you're comfortable with.

 

[uscitizen]

Simple... There are only 2 choices. You either believe or you do not believe.

I don't think I have any choice. If I say that I believe, I am faking it, and I didn't "choose" *not* to believe either. I just cannot.

Neither can I just believe because everyone else does.

You cannot make yourself believe, neither can others thru peer pressure.

 

[G.T.]

I just look at the complexity and complete organization of the solar system, the planet, the different ecological systems, etc... all the way down to the microscopic cell and DNA. After humans labeling all of this as 'systems', organized functioning units that all work together to keep life going, how can you not wonder at there being a creator or intellgent designer of some kind? The odds are far more in favor of that than coincidence in my opinion.

That's one way to look at it, but that way doesn't favor a Religion.

It also doesn't answer for imperfections....but that's neither here n'or there in terms of the discussion of "how to have faith."

I'm trying to arrive at a conclusion that someone with a similar "need proof" road block has overcome. Or not.

No, it doesn't favor a specific religion, or even any guarantee that there is any life after this. But, I think it's strong evidence that at least one of them may be right. So, I guess it's up to you to decide which, if any, fits what you're comfortable with.

I'm not comfortable with that, to be honest. It's too wishy washy and I wouldn't have any sort of confidence that the decision was correct, i.e. "faith" if you will.

 

[syrenn]

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

I'm positive at some point I believed in Santa, etc. but I also was a toddler and irrational about probably most things.

Rationalization - is probably what changed my perception of what's "real."

Then you have your answer of why you don't feel comfortable with the "just know" syndrome explanation.

You grew up and no longer believed in, for lack of better words, magic and fantasy.

You realized that god was no different then blind faith in santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy...being "real"

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

You are told all your life that there is oxygen in the air and that we need it to live. You can't see, taste,smell or feel it, yet you know it is there, why? Faith. Same thing with religion. The Bible tells you what you need in reference to life here and ever after. Tells you what you need to do. Same thing here, FAITH. You can believe or not your choice. For me, it is clear. Hope this helps.

I believe in God, but your analogy fails. One can measure what we call oxygen in the atmosphere.

 

[G.T.]

When you were young, didnt you "just know" santa was real, and the easter bunny and tooth fairy were "real".... You believed ...you believed blindly because it was what your parents told you...

What changed your perception of "real" ...


Religion/god...is about the same thing.

I'm positive at some point I believed in Santa, etc. but I also was a toddler and irrational about probably most things.

Rationalization - is probably what changed my perception of what's "real."

Then you have your answer of why you don't feel comfortable with the "just know" syndrome explanation.

You grew up and no longer believed in, for lack of better words, magic and fantasy.

You realized that god was no different then blind faith in santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy...being "real"

I suppose you could draw that conclusion - except for the fact that being here in General (meaning the Universe) keeps me from COMPLETELY writing off a deity of some sort.

I already know why I'm uncomfortable with the "just know" explanation, lol, which is why I'm asking the Religious "how," aha.

Appreciate your thoughts, as always.




To anyone thinking I may be being contrarian - n'aw, I'm really trying to work this out.

 

[xotoxi]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

You discuss religion with your cable guy?

Look up what is a people person.

A'ight. I got you.

 

[LOki]

Not a trick question - I'm being sincere. Me and the guy who hooked up my Verizon Fios were talking about this.

I was telling him that I'm just agnostic - I don't believe everything came from nothing but at the same time I'm not at all Religious.

He began to get into the Forgiveness thing.

I was like - well, I do my best (and even when noone's looking) to be a good person.....but if I continue down that path and can never get over the mental block of not having "faith," then I guess I'm doomed eh?

But the mental block won't ever go away. I know this because I know myself. I'd have to see some sort of miracle, and be able to somehow attribute that miracle to a Religion or whatever. I don't see this happening. How do you "just know?"

For me, "you don't."

I'm sure it's different for others.

"Just knowing" is a lie that insecure people tell themselves (and everybody better believe it, or else) to avoid saying "I don't know," or "I am uncertain."

ehh, could be but it's a bit of a stretch to claim to know what other people "truly" do or don't believe en masse.

It's a good thing that I'm not making that claim then.

Uncertainty is antithesis of Faith, too.

No kidding. You don't even have to ask them--they come to your door and tell you.

Would be bad if 100% of Followers fell into the uncertainty category. Interesting.

I'm not sure that a dose of honest self-awareness would be such a bad thing. Maybe then they'd understand how the rest of us manage to live with one less invisible friend than they have.

 

[syrenn]

I'm positive at some point I believed in Santa, etc. but I also was a toddler and irrational about probably most things.

Rationalization - is probably what changed my perception of what's "real."

Then you have your answer of why you don't feel comfortable with the "just know" syndrome explanation.

You grew up and no longer believed in, for lack of better words, magic and fantasy.

You realized that god was no different then blind faith in santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy...being "real"

I suppose you could draw that conclusion - except for the fact that being here in General (meaning the Universe) keeps me from COMPLETELY writing off a deity of some sort.

I already know why I'm uncomfortable with the "just know" explanation, lol, which is why I'm asking the Religious "how," aha.

Appreciate your thoughts, as always.




To anyone thinking I may be being contrarian - n'aw, I'm really trying to work this out.

I think your new one is making you rethink your life and ideas..........

Look deeply into those eyes....and you will just know.

 

[G.T.]

"Just knowing" is a lie that insecure people tell themselves (and everybody better believe it, or else) to avoid saying "I don't know," or "I am uncertain."

ehh, could be but it's a bit of a stretch to claim to know what other people "truly" do or don't believe en masse.

It's a good thing that I'm not making that claim then.

Uncertainty is antithesis of Faith, too.

No kidding. You don't even have to ask them--they come to your door and tell you.

Would be bad if 100% of Followers fell into the uncertainty category. Interesting.

I'm not sure that a dose of honest self-awareness would be such a bad thing. Maybe then they'd understand how the rest of us manage to live with one less invisible friend than they have.

Perhaps this is all true, but I'm not here to poke anyone's ribs. I want points of view minus glib.

 

[G.T.]

Then you have your answer of why you don't feel comfortable with the "just know" syndrome explanation.

You grew up and no longer believed in, for lack of better words, magic and fantasy.

You realized that god was no different then blind faith in santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy...being "real"

I suppose you could draw that conclusion - except for the fact that being here in General (meaning the Universe) keeps me from COMPLETELY writing off a deity of some sort.

I already know why I'm uncomfortable with the "just know" explanation, lol, which is why I'm asking the Religious "how," aha.

Appreciate your thoughts, as always.




To anyone thinking I may be being contrarian - n'aw, I'm really trying to work this out.

I think your new one is making you rethink your life and ideas..........

Look deeply into those eyes....and you will just know.

N'aw, this inner debate has BEEN within me, for eons.

Her beauty cannot sway me towards a Religion - I cannot rationally ascribe "Religion" as the reason she exists, and is beautiful.

 

[syrenn]

I suppose you could draw that conclusion - except for the fact that being here in General (meaning the Universe) keeps me from COMPLETELY writing off a deity of some sort.

I already know why I'm uncomfortable with the "just know" explanation, lol, which is why I'm asking the Religious "how," aha.

Appreciate your thoughts, as always.




To anyone thinking I may be being contrarian - n'aw, I'm really trying to work this out.

I think your new one is making you rethink your life and ideas..........

Look deeply into those eyes....and you will just know.

N'aw, this inner debate has BEEN within me, for eons.

Her beauty cannot sway me towards a Religion - I cannot rationally ascribe "Religion" as the reason she exists, and is beautiful.

I did not say anything about religion now did i?