How Does Teacher Tenure and Seniority Help Students?

[Disir]

Enrollment of Students With Disabilities in Charters
Critics of charter schools have argued that charters enroll students with disabilities less frequently than public schools, particularly when it comes to students with more severe disabilities, who may be more difficult or costly to educate.1, 2, 7 These criticisms are supported by anecdotal research suggesting that some charters had "counseled out" students with disabilities—that is, they had discouraged parents and caregivers of students with more severe special needs from enrolling in their school, suggesting that the school was not prepared to meet those needs.1, 2, 5 Adding to the controversy surrounding charters and students with special needs, comparisons of charters with noncharter public schools often highlight considerable segregation, with low-income students, English language learners, and students with special needs enrolled at lower percentages in charters.2

Students With Disabilities in Charter Schools LD Topics LD OnLine

There hasn't been a lot of over site in this area with vouchers.

I actually agree with charter schools on this, I think public schools should be able to tell parents no. One family shouldn't be able to hold a school hostage for 10% of their budget over ONE child. That's preposterous

I agree depending on the disability. But, if these turkeys are going to take the cash then they can educate those with disabilities.

Did you read the story I posted earlier. We offered the parents $250K to have their child cared for at home. They already had the facilities required so it was just a matter of hiring a caretaker , buying a specialized vehicle and a few other expenses. They said NO we want our child in school and we were forced by a court order to comply. It cost 5 times as much per year. The child passed after 2 years. That's $2.5M wasted , no ifs and or buts about it.

I saw it and I agree that it was unbelievable and stupid.

But, I was thinking if you have a kid that was dyslexic etc.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

 

[boilermaker55]

By your definition then......a teacher guides students towards productive and lucrative businesses that guide them into financial excellence.
Ummmmm!! Get it now!

CEO's take money from their stockholders.
Teaches make money.

Teachers, much like CEO's, earn a salary. They make no wealth of their own.

Wrong. A CEO guides the company in the proper direction to make it profitable. This creates jobs and money for the companies stockholders.
In fact he makes wealth for hundreds of people,if not thousands.

 

[Rikurzhen]

no they haven't , else we wouldn't be having this discussion

The demographics have changed. That's what is driving this discussion. Same too with mainstreaming kids. They're now included in aggregate measures.

Also, while were on the subject, you want to know the REAL reason private schools do better than public schools?

Ok here it is

As a public school, you have to accept EVERY child that lives within your district. Doesn't matter if that kid comes in kicking and screaming and declaring every day that he doesn't want to learn, he has a right to be there. Doesn't matter that they are too handicapped to take advantage of any learning situation, they have a right to be there. Doesn't even matter if they can communicate with the teachers or not, they have a right to be there.

I'd be surprised if anyone here doesn't know this. It's no secret that you're revealing.

So logically you can see that vouchers would start bringing the less able or willing students into private schools lowering their averages.

Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want.

This is the endgame of the revolution that liberals launched. The reduction of the public school system to the school of last resort.

You obviously do not know how federal funds work, you accept those vouchers, you accept any students the government tells you to. FACT

I seem to understand how the political process works where you don't. As more parents flee the public system, support for public school financing will decline and pressure to shift that funding to voucher programs will increase. As good students flee the incentive to flee for the good students remaining in the system increases, accelerating the erosion of support for public schools. The end state of this PROCESS is that funding will be tied to each child, not to school districts or individual schools. The only question here is how long will it take for this process to run its course.

you are insane if you think only good students will be taking these vouchers and going to private schools.

And once again, vouchers are WELFARE

Once again, that bright hot disk in the day sky is the moon. See, two can play at the game of argument by assertion. Voucher funding is welfare to the SAME extent that public school funding is welfare. If that's your argument, I don't disagree. If you wish to argue that vouchers are welfare but public school funding is not, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

The point is that private schools can be selective, remember that big "secret" you revealed to us all. Also look at the report above about the student composition of charter schools - selective.

As we get a system which ties school funding to the student, where they carry the funding with them, we'll see a quality gradation develop in the school ecosphere. Some schools will accept English Language Learners and others won't, some will accept disabled students and others won't. What will remain though is free association.

 

[boilermaker55]

And here we are again...with the same lame argument. Teaches direct, guide, help and train individuals to make create jobs and make wealth.
Damn!! You are easy!!

CEO's take money from their stockholders.
Teaches make money.

Teachers, much like CEO's, earn a salary. They make no wealth of their own.

Wrong. A CEO guides the company in the proper direction to make it profitable. This creates jobs and money for the companies stockholders.
In fact he makes wealth for hundreds of people,if not thousands.

The corporation makes wealth. The CEO earns a salary, usually in the form of a stock, in lieu of a wage.

Try again.

I dont need to try again. CEOs most certainly generate wealth by making good decisions. How many CEOs do you know?

 

[saveliberty]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So now the parent isn't even providing a home? Just where is the line with you for parental responsibility?

 

[Jackson]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

No way. Here's the better idea. You send your kids to public schools and sacrifice your kids so that other, troubled, kids can benefit from having your kids in school with them. All liberals should do that. Normal people want to protect their kids, not sacrifice them to uphold liberal values.

The whole point of voucher schools is to escape from bad students.

Nah, not going to happen. You won't get to privatize the schooling and socialize the risk.

All or nothing, podjo.

 

[Rikurzhen]

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

No way. Here's the better idea. You send your kids to public schools and sacrifice your kids so that other, troubled, kids can benefit from having your kids in school with them. All liberals should do that. Normal people want to protect their kids, not sacrifice them to uphold liberal values.

The whole point of voucher schools is to escape from bad students.

Nah, not going to happen. You won't get to privatize the schooling and socialize the risk.

All or nothing, podjo.

I don't want to socialize the risk, I want to put it all on you and other liberals because you desired this type of society so it's you who should have to sacrifice your own kids.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

 

[boilermaker55]

Sacrifice! Really? Joke!!!

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

No way. Here's the better idea. You send your kids to public schools and sacrifice your kids so that other, troubled, kids can benefit from having your kids in school with them. All liberals should do that. Normal people want to protect their kids, not sacrifice them to uphold liberal values.

The whole point of voucher schools is to escape from bad students.

Nah, not going to happen. You won't get to privatize the schooling and socialize the risk.

All or nothing, podjo.

I don't want to socialize the risk, I want to put it all on you and other liberals because you desired this type of society so it's you who should have to sacrifice your own kids.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Not at all. Schools will still remain selective and reject kids who they don't want." Very true. So make vouchers contingent that a school has to accept them all or accept none.

No way. Here's the better idea. You send your kids to public schools and sacrifice your kids so that other, troubled, kids can benefit from having your kids in school with them. All liberals should do that. Normal people want to protect their kids, not sacrifice them to uphold liberal values.

The whole point of voucher schools is to escape from bad students.

Nah, not going to happen. You won't get to privatize the schooling and socialize the risk.

All or nothing, podjo.

I don't want to socialize the risk, I want to put it all on you and other liberals because you desired this type of society so it's you who should have to sacrifice your own kids.

What the small minority of far right freaks want is immaterial, don't you know?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And here we are again...with the same lame argument. Teaches direct, guide, help and train individuals to make create jobs and make wealth.
Damn!! You are easy!!

How many high school teachers can take credit for for the truly successful?
I quit high school and retired at 46.

CEO's take money from their stockholders.
Teaches make money.

Teachers, much like CEO's, earn a salary. They make no wealth of their own.

Wrong. A CEO guides the company in the proper direction to make it profitable. This creates jobs and money for the companies stockholders.
In fact he makes wealth for hundreds of people,if not thousands.

The corporation makes wealth. The CEO earns a salary, usually in the form of a stock, in lieu of a wage.

Try again.

I dont need to try again. CEOs most certainly generate wealth by making good decisions. How many CEOs do you know?

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So now the parent isn't even providing a home? Just where is the line with you for parental responsibility?

Ya, they are called homeless kids.
Across the country, states are reporting more homeless school students. According to new data by the Department of Education, more than 1.1 million students in the United States in grades K–12 were homeless in the 2011–12 school year—a record high. Of the 50 states, the 10 in this gallery have the fastest-growing homeless student populations, and chances are they aren't the places you'd expect.

Experts say that the numbers may even be higher than what you’ll see here, because irregular class attendance and changing addresses mean homeless kids are difficult to track. The National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth says that two trends are responsible for these big numbers: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in severe poverty in the U.S.

Many schools already have homeless education coordinators, and more districts are hiring them. These educators help students access what many of us consider life basics—a pair of shoes, a shower, and even a prepaid phone for safety. There are more than 15,000 of these liaisons in schools in the United States. Under the 1987 McKinney-Vento Act all schools are required to provide homeless services, but many don’t have the money to fill the position and haven’t secured a federal grant to help.
Poverty in the U.S. The 10 Worst States for Student Homelessness TakePart

I'm going to pretend that you didn't even go there with that parental responsibility remark.

 

[saveliberty]

(Come on Disir, did you really read that in the post? (refering to the Beowulf remark)

Where are the lines of what a parent should be responsible for with their child? What are reasonable exceptions?

 

[saveliberty]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So now the parent isn't even providing a home? Just where is the line with you for parental responsibility?

Ya, they are called homeless kids.
Across the country, states are reporting more homeless school students. According to new data by the Department of Education, more than 1.1 million students in the United States in grades K–12 were homeless in the 2011–12 school year—a record high. Of the 50 states, the 10 in this gallery have the fastest-growing homeless student populations, and chances are they aren't the places you'd expect.

Experts say that the numbers may even be higher than what you’ll see here, because irregular class attendance and changing addresses mean homeless kids are difficult to track. The National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth says that two trends are responsible for these big numbers: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in severe poverty in the U.S.

Many schools already have homeless education coordinators, and more districts are hiring them. These educators help students access what many of us consider life basics—a pair of shoes, a shower, and even a prepaid phone for safety. There are more than 15,000 of these liaisons in schools in the United States. Under the 1987 McKinney-Vento Act all schools are required to provide homeless services, but many don’t have the money to fill the position and haven’t secured a federal grant to help.
Poverty in the U.S. The 10 Worst States for Student Homelessness TakePart

I'm going to pretend that you didn't even go there with that parental responsibility remark.

So providing a home isn't a parental responsibility?

 

[Jackson]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

Kids do more in school than sit and listen. They are actually learning to read, do math and learning to write, that is if they are not sitting there listening to Mr. Tooth for a couple of hours. Maybe Mom can teach Johnny to brush his teeth when she is free. We are kind of busy at school.

 

[Disir]

Come on Disir, did you really read that in the post?

Where are the lines of what a parent should be responsible for with their child? What are reasonable exceptions?

Ya. Look, there is a group of people called Parents as Teachers that promoted a few of those programs.
Health covers sex ed and nutrition and absolutely should be there.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Prevent is a strong word in this context, aid or make allowances might be better terms.

For instance breakfast, eat it at home and maybe even have a parent make it. Take the child to the grocery store and let them see it costs money and how to find healthy choices. Use your WIC, if necessary. This versus send your kid to school with no meal and let the school feed them.

Some of these kids take the food and pocket it so that they have something to eat later. We still have homeless kids in schools.

I strongly disagree with removing those programs.

So now the parent isn't even providing a home? Just where is the line with you for parental responsibility?

Ya, they are called homeless kids.
Across the country, states are reporting more homeless school students. According to new data by the Department of Education, more than 1.1 million students in the United States in grades K–12 were homeless in the 2011–12 school year—a record high. Of the 50 states, the 10 in this gallery have the fastest-growing homeless student populations, and chances are they aren't the places you'd expect.

Experts say that the numbers may even be higher than what you’ll see here, because irregular class attendance and changing addresses mean homeless kids are difficult to track. The National Association for the Education of Homeless Children and Youth says that two trends are responsible for these big numbers: a growing shortage of affordable rental housing and a simultaneous increase in severe poverty in the U.S.

Many schools already have homeless education coordinators, and more districts are hiring them. These educators help students access what many of us consider life basics—a pair of shoes, a shower, and even a prepaid phone for safety. There are more than 15,000 of these liaisons in schools in the United States. Under the 1987 McKinney-Vento Act all schools are required to provide homeless services, but many don’t have the money to fill the position and haven’t secured a federal grant to help.
Poverty in the U.S. The 10 Worst States for Student Homelessness TakePart

I'm going to pretend that you didn't even go there with that parental responsibility remark.

So providing a home isn't a parental responsibility?

Of course it is. What do you want to do? How many that are responsible for the recent crash are in prison?

Ya, about that responsibility.

 

[Disir]

...and what direction has the state and federal governments taken? Undermine parents with sex education, nutrition programs and other entitlements which distance the parent from responsible behaviors.

Wait. Are you saying that the programs themselves prevent the parent from being responsible?

Yes. Class time for Mr. Tooth (2 hours) on how to brush your teeth! Healthy Bear on eating right; Safe Touch, Bad Touch, sex; Fireman Freddie; Police Officer - crossing the street; Puppets - The Arts; Dance - The Ballet (Arts); Opera - Arts ... This takes time away from Reading, Math and Language Arts... But don't forget the Cookie Drives and Christmas shows....

We take the responsibilities from the parents..can't they teach their children to brush their teeth, to cross the street safely, not to allow anyone to touch their private parts? Come on parents...step up to the plate!

Ya, so you just sit there you kindergartner you and face the front and read Beowulf.

Come on.

Kids do more in school than sit and listen. They are actually learning to read, do math and learning to write, that is if they are not sitting there listening to Mr. Tooth for a couple of hours. Maybe Mom can teach Johnny to brush his teeth when she is free. We are kind of busy at school.

Ya, I know. Teaching to the test is awesome. Never let anything stand in the way of that.