How is austerity doing in Europe

I saw this very interesting article, I'm not sure it's been posted yet.
Who Is Defending Austerity Now?
Austerians have had their worst week since the last time GDP numbers came out for a country that's tried austerity.
But this time is, well, different. It's not "just" that southern Europe is stuck in a depression and Britain is stuck in a no-growth trap. It's that the very intellectual foundations of austerity are unraveling. In other words, economists are finding out that austerity doesn't work in practice or in theory.
What a difference an Excel coding error makes.
Austerity has been a policy in search of a justification ever since it began in 2010. Back then, policymakers decided it was time for policy to go back to "normal" even though the economy hadn't, because deficits just felt too big. The only thing they needed was a theory telling them why what they were doing made sense. Of course, this wasn't easy when unemployment was still high, and interest rates couldn't go any lower. Alberto Alesina and Silvia Ardagna took the first stab at it, arguing that reducing deficits would increase confidence and growth in the short-run. But this had the defect of being demonstrably untrue (in addition to being based off a naïve reading of the data). Countries that tried to aggressively cut their deficits amidst their slumps didn't recover; they fell into even deeper slumps.
Enter Carmen Reinhart and Ken Rogoff. They gave austerity a new raison d'être by shifting the debate from the short-to-the-long-run. Reinhart and Rogoff acknowledged austerity would hurt today, but said it would help tomorrow -- if it keeps governments from racking up debt of 90 percent of GDP, at which point growth supposedly slows dramatically. Now, this result was never more than just a correlation -- slow growth more likely causes high debt than the reverse -- but that didn't stop policymakers from imputing totemic significance to it. That is, it became a "fact" that everybody who mattered knew was true.
Except it wasn't. Reinhart and Rogoff goofed. They accidentally excluded some data in one case, and used some wrong data in another; the former because of an Excel snafu. If you correct for these very basic errors, their correlation gets even weaker, and the growth tipping point at 90 percent of GDP disappears. In other words, there's no there there anymore.
Austerity is back to being a policy without a justification. Not only that, but, as Paul Krugman points out, Reinhart and Rogoff's spreadsheet misadventure has been a kind of the-austerians-have-no-clothes moment. It's been enough that even some rather unusual suspects have turned against cutting deficits now. For one, Stanford professor John Taylor claims L'affaire Excel is why the G20, the birthplace of the global austerity movement in 2010, was more muted on fiscal targets recently.
The discovery of errors in the Reinhart-Rogoff paper on the growth-debt nexus is already impacting policy. A participant in last Friday's G20 meetings told me that the error was a factor in the decision to omit specific deficit or debt-to-GDP targets in the G20 communique.
For another, Bill Gross, the manager of the world's largest bond fund, and who, as Joseph Cotterill of FT Alphaville points out, used to be quite the fan of British austerity, made a big about-face in an interview with the Financial Times on Monday:
"The UK and almost all of Europe have erred in terms of believing that austerity, fiscal austerity in the short term, is the way to produce real growth. It is not. You've got to spend money. Bond investors want growth much like equity investors, and to the extent that too much austerity leads to recession or stagnation then credit spreads widen out -- even if a country can print its own currency and write its own checks. In the long term it is important to be fiscal and austere. It is important to have a relatively average or low rate of debt to GDP. The question in terms of the long term and the short term is how quickly to do it".
For more go to: Who Is Defending Austerity Now? - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

Austerity is a failed experiment,,not only in theory but also in real life case points. There is no doubt.
 
Austerity is a failed experiment,,not only in theory but also in real life case points. There is no doubt.


Austerity means limited government. THe USA has the most limited government and is the richest in the world so it is utterly stupid or liberal to say austerity has failed.
 
Except it wasn't. Reinhart and Rogoff goofed.

actually the corrected numbers show they were correct. THe more debt the less growth. This is obviously true anyway since government does not invent new prodcts to grow the economy. The more money they take the less left to grow the economy!!


stupid stupid stupid libturds act as if there is some theory out there that says the more debt the government has the better the economy will be!! The only thing liberalism really cares about is more and more welfare.
 
Last edited:
Austerity is a failed experiment,,not only in theory but also in real life case points. There is no doubt.


Austerity means limited government. THe USA has the most limited government and is the richest in the world so it is utterly stupid or liberal to say austerity has failed.

Yeah, the world's economists are idiots right Ed?
What exactly are your qualifications? You seem to think you know it all, but you have yet to prove you even have the very basic knowledge ala Econ 101..
So Ed, please show me your qualifications.
 
Yeah, the world's economists are idiots right Ed?
they all disagree don't they??? and none saw the huge huge housing bubble about to burst-right?

What exactly are your qualifications? You seem to think you know it all, but you have yet to prove you even have the very basic knowledge ala Econ 101..

well dear then show me where conservatism is mistaken??

So Ed, please show me your qualifications.

dear, I have repeatedly; if not please show me where conservative arguments are mistaken or admit you lack the education and IQ to do so.
 
Qualifications?

dear, I have repeatedly; if not please show me where conservative arguments are mistaken or admit you lack the education and IQ to do so.

Oh, Graduate of the U of Minnesota w/BS Degree Business Administration & Marketing, Class of 89'. My education included 3 quarters of Econ 101-301.
 
Qualifications?

dear, I have repeatedly; if not please show me where conservative arguments are mistaken or admit you lack the education and IQ to do so.

Oh, Graduate of the U of Minnesota w/BS Degree Business Administration & Marketing, Class of 89'. My education included 3 quarters of Econ 101-301.

ok then dear I'm sure you'll win the next argument big time. Pick a substantive topic and show us how good your liberal education was!! I'm shaking in my boots now that I know your "qualifications."
 
dear, I have repeatedly; if not please show me where conservative arguments are mistaken or admit you lack the education and IQ to do so.

Oh, Graduate of the U of Minnesota w/BS Degree Business Administration & Marketing, Class of 89'. My education included 3 quarters of Econ 101-301.

ok then dear I'm sure you'll win the next argument big time. Pick a substantive topic and show us how good your liberal education was!! I'm shaking in my boots now that I know your "qualifications."

It seems to me we are discussing austerity.
 
For the craziest reason and despite economists and governments indicating austerity has failed, you seem to think the opposite!!!!!
A while back I stated the austerity doesn't work in weak economic situations (weak recovery), like that in Europe, where it is failing, now. Countries are in serious recessions bordering on depressions, thanks to austerity. Their governments admit and economists admit it. Yet, you don't believe it. Why?
 
For the craziest reason and despite economists and governments indicating austerity has failed, you seem to think the opposite!!!!!
A while back I stated the austerity doesn't work in weak economic situations (weak recovery), like that in Europe, where it is failing, now. Countries are in serious recessions bordering on depressions, thanks to austerity. Their governments admit and economists admit it. Yet, you don't believe it. Why?

Dear, Europe is trying to steal money from Germany that it has thanks to German austerity!!!! Slow?????????????????????

a bust????? too stupid by 1000% !!! austerity in Europe is working wonderfully!! Their numbers are getting better while ours are getting worse!!!The idea that tax and spend idiotic liberalism will get us to a smaller debt is identical to saying more drugs will cure the junkie. How stupid can a liberal be???

Only a blind stupid monkey liberal would say more drugs would work. Why be so afraid to explain how on earth that is possible???? What does your inability tell us say about the IQ and character of liberals???????


Wolfgang Schauble:

"According to the latest estimates, the Euro zone's budget shortfall should be 3.2% of GDP this year, half the level of 2009 and well below the deficits of the USA and Japan. In the last 3 years the structural deficit- the fiscal shortfall adjusted for the change in the business cycle- has shrunk to
2.1% from 4.6%.

After years of steady rises in Spain Portugal and Greece and other places the current account deficits have fallen rapidly driven not just by retreating consumption and imports but also, crucially, by rising exports.

Unit labor costs in Ireland and Greece have dropped 12% since 2009 and by 6% and 5% in Spain and Portugal respectively. As the OECD acknowledged in its recent "Going for Growth"
the crisis has served as a catalyst for structural reform in those countries that most needed it, particularly in the labor market.

As these trend show Europe's crises management has proved itself."

By SIMEON DJANKOV
Fiscal austerity is blamed for all of Europe's ills. If only we could loosen the belt somewhat, the argument goes, everyone would be better off. This refrain is repeated by Presidents François Hollande and Barack Obama, bureaucrats at the IMF and in Brussels, and striking workers across Europe. More public money, they say, means better growth and job prospects.

The evidence is to the contrary. The European Union economies that have experienced the highest growth in the past three years—Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden—all take austerity seriously. The European Commission's Winter 2013 forecast shows a similar trend. The five fastest-growing economies in Europe are projected to be Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania—all fiscal hawks.

In 2009, Bulgaria's budget deficit was 4.4% of GDP, above the Maastricht limit of 3%. Following cuts in government expenditure and a pension reform that increased the mandatory retirement age by two years, the budget deficit fell to less than 1% last year. Yet Bulgaria's economy has recorded 12 consecutive quarters of positive growth, one of only four such economies in Europe.

Austerity simply means that governments spend what they earn, or close to it. People agree with this principle when applied to a household budget. A recent poll in Bulgaria finds that only 17% of respondents want their family to live off debts during the crisis. Yet when you ask the same question for the nation, 58% want a looser budget. Someone else should pay the government's bills.

Enlarge Image

Reuters

Antigovernment protestors in Sofia, Bulgaria, on March 10.
Many analysts say that the government of Prime Minister Boyko Borisov, in which I served as deputy prime minister and finance minister, fell last month due to its austerity drive. But the real reason is our failure to reform sectors like energy and health care, and to force austerity upon them, too.

The strikes that led to the government's resignation started in February due to higher electricity prices. These were made necessary by the ever-increasing inefficiency of the energy sector. High-cost power producers continuously joined the energy grid, and the state-owned energy company was forced to cover the resulting losses. The choice was between a price increase to save the energy company from bankruptcy and much-delayed reform. The regulator chose the former.

Health care is another unreformed sector. Successive governments have caved under pressure from pharmaceutical companies, medical associations and labor unions to increase public expenditure on health care. Yet the perception of service quality has worsened; an astounding 93% of Bulgarians say health services are inadequate. Each attempt at reform during our time in government was met by calls for the dismissal of the minister of health. Four ministers came and went—mission not accomplished.

Europe needs austerity. Otherwise inefficiencies in certain sectors go on. Moreover, large public expenditures open more opportunities for corruption—another reason for strikes in countries like the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Spain. Patience is running thin. Not only is there less money to go around, but public officials misuse it to their benefit.

Europe also needs a frank discussion about competitiveness. The main weakness on the Continent is that many countries produce and export too little and at too high a cost. This is seen in the external trade data. In 2012 France ran a current-account deficit of €82 billion, Spain €32 billion, Greece €20 billion, Portugal €11 billion and Cyprus €4.3 billion.

Some blame the euro. The reasoning is as follows: The Southern Rim countries joined the single currency at an overvalued exchange rate, and as a result their prospects for export-led growth were minimal. In contrast, Germany undervalued its currency at entry and thereby continued to gain in productivity, also in part thanks to the labor-market reforms of Gerhard Schröder. Hence its trade surplus of nearly €200 billion.

There is a lot of truth to this monetary explanation—take Iceland's quick recovery as an example. But the other main culprit is the regulatory burden. According to World Bank data, it takes 11 procedures and €9,000 to open a small business in Athens. It takes 735 days and 43 procedures to resolve a simple commercial dispute in Larnaca, Cyprus. And it takes 59 days and visits to eight different offices to register a small piece of property in Paris.

It is cheaper and faster to do all this in Berlin. And a lot cheaper and faster to do it in New York, Singapore, Toronto or Sydney.

So suppose that the euro-zone countries that have undergone various rescue efforts do eventually manage to balance their budgets. Suppose that it only takes them an extra few years. And suppose they do it by cutting unnecessary expenditures and boosting revenues. Would it suffice? Hardly. By then, unemployment would be over 25%, as it already is in Greece and Spain. Popular discontent would have thrown out or scared off another government or two.

Europe, therefore, also badly needs a growth plan to get the economy going. At various Ecofin meetings over the last four years, I raised the growth issue in concert with fellow ministers from Poland, Sweden and the U.K. But it never truly came into focus. There were always too many emergency rescues to discuss. Too much attention was paid to fiscal pacts, tax harmonization and bank supervision as the next big thing.

Perhaps we should have named it "austerity in the burdens to business." Then it may have caught policy makers' attention. Austerity in government budgets, combined with reduced red tape and structural reforms, may just make Europe work.

Mr. Djankov was deputy prime minister and finance minister of Bulgaria from 2009 until last month.
 
Sorry, I've been on the phone and we are leaving to fly to Madison, WI. My daughter is having her baby two weeks early and is on the way to the hospital!
You might want to check your resources Ed.

Germany still in recession
Published on April 23, 2013 by admin in Germany in recession 2013
The latest economic data out of Germany depicts a deepening recession. April’s preliminary (called a flash report) data shows: Manufacturing Output dropped to 47.9 – a 4-month low. The Manufacturing PMI dropped to 47.0 – 4-month low. The Services Activity index fell to 49.2 – a 6-month low. The Composite Output index fell to 48.8 – a 6-month low
Germany in recession 2013 | Triangle Wealth Blog

I'll be back Thursday
 
Sorry, I've been on the phone and we are leaving to fly to Madison, WI. My daughter is having her baby two weeks early and is on the way to the hospital!
You might want to check your resources Ed.

Germany still in recession
Published on April 23, 2013 by admin in Germany in recession 2013
The latest economic data out of Germany depicts a deepening recession. April’s preliminary (called a flash report) data shows: Manufacturing Output dropped to 47.9 – a 4-month low. The Manufacturing PMI dropped to 47.0 – 4-month low. The Services Activity index fell to 49.2 – a 6-month low. The Composite Output index fell to 48.8 – a 6-month low
Germany in recession 2013 | Triangle Wealth Blog

I'll be back Thursday

dear our subject was not whether Germany was in recession?????
See why we say a liberal will be slow??
 
So Kiwiman believes that you get out of a debt crisis by increasing debt. Hmm... Actually it must have been that austerity that led to the crisis! I mean austerity is the blame for everything! If an economy is doing bad it's cause that austerity, there could possibly be no other explanation!

There is no austerity in europe, it's a fact that the debt of european countries on aggregate increases each year. The countries that are more austere on average do better than the ones that rack up more debt. Despite the fact that the austere countries are giving out sizeable benefits to the reckless countries.

That article gives out an example of an "Austere UK" destroying itself. When did that austerity happen? Could you give out the exact debt chart of UK. Oops.

Let the merry-go-round go on...
 
There is no austerity in europe, it's a fact that the debt of european countries on aggregate increases each year.

This is 100% true yet liberal liars keep parroting it like the fools they are.

More importantly, austerity in 100% mandatory. Libturd complete fools act as if its a choice. Germany is not going to make bailout loans to Greece unless Greece grows up and cuts its government in half and seems able to payback its loans.

Would a bank make a loan to an idiot who was deeply in debt way beyond his ability to pay back his existing loans????????????

The idea that another loan or another shot of cocaine is going to cure the addiction is too stupid for words.
 
Sorry, I've been on the phone and we are leaving to fly to Madison, WI. My daughter is having her baby two weeks early and is on the way to the hospital!
You might want to check your resources Ed.

Germany still in recession
Published on April 23, 2013 by admin in Germany in recession 2013
The latest economic data out of Germany depicts a deepening recession. April’s preliminary (called a flash report) data shows: Manufacturing Output dropped to 47.9 – a 4-month low. The Manufacturing PMI dropped to 47.0 – 4-month low. The Services Activity index fell to 49.2 – a 6-month low. The Composite Output index fell to 48.8 – a 6-month low
Germany in recession 2013 | Triangle Wealth Blog

I'll be back Thursday

dear our subject was not whether Germany was in recession?????
See why we say a liberal will be slow??

The discussion was austerity during weak economic times, you implied everything was just great and austerity would work anytime and going slow with austerity during weak economic times was bunk. You used quotes as proof you were right, I used Germany to prove that your sources were clueless. And here's more:

EU forecasts 2013 recession, signals ease in austerity
Published 03 May 2013

Europe’s economy will contract by more than expected this year and budget deficits will decline more slowly, the European Commission said on Friday (3 May), signalling that rising unemployment and the bleak outlook allow some scope for slowing the pace of austerity.
EU forecasts 2013 recession, signals ease in austerity | EurActiv

EU Eases Budget Rigor as Recession Bites, Joblessness Up
March 15, 2013
European governments loosened the shackles on national budgets as the euro-area recession deepens and unemployment climbs, with pro-growth appeals coming even from German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the leader most closely associated with austerity.
EU Eases Budget Rigor as Recession Bites, Joblessness Up - Businessweek

Self-defeating austerity shocks
Reda Cherif, Fuad Hasanov, 3 May 2013
Europe’s austerity-first approach has triggered research-based efforts to evaluate the effectiveness of debt-reduction strategies. This column, based on a US empirical study, suggests that an ‘austerity shock’ in a weak economy may be self-defeating. Public-debt reduction historically occurs gradually amid improved growth. If policymakers, firms and households respond as in the past, we should expect lower deficits amid higher growth and, eventually, decreasing debt ratios
Self-defeating austerity shocks | vox

G-20: the World Does Not Need So Much Austerity
Finance leaders of the G-20 economies on Friday edged away from a long-running drive toward government austerity in rich nations, rejecting the idea of setting hard targets for reducing national debt in a sign of worries over a sluggish global recovery.
G-20: the World Does Not Need So Much Austerity

Recent historical facts back me up and that's the bottom-line.
 
Recent historical facts back me up and that's the bottom-line.

as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand that austerity is mandatory because Germany won't bail Greece out unless Greece cuts its government in half so it has money to pay Germany back.

Is that really over your head???
 
Recent historical facts back me up and that's the bottom-line.

as a liberal you lack the IQ to understand that austerity is mandatory because Germany won't bail Greece out unless Greece cuts its government in half so it has money to pay Germany back.

Is that really over your head???

You don't read people's links do you?
This entire subject is over your head.
Secondly, I'm not a liberal, it's very likely that I have may have had more positive conservative feedback for my posts on various subjects than you.
I'm all for spending cuts, it's just that as historical facts show, you just don't go nuts making cuts when your economy is weak. As we see in Europe, they are pulling back on spending cuts because of recessions and high unemployment. When the economy is more sound, they will add more cuts.
Come back when you have something intellectually honest to say.
 

Forum List

Back
Top