How is austerity doing in Europe

[Rshermr]

"Examine the person’s reaction when they're busted in a lie. The worst thing that can happen to a pathological liar is to be busted for telling the lie.
Extreme defensiveness. Expect the person to become extremely defensive, doing whatever he or she can to pin blame on someone else.
Quickly fabricating another lie to cover up the original fib. The pathological liar will start the cover-up process quickly to ensure that their reputation remains in tact. This may include a bigger lie than the original fib––which may be quite apparent.
Vindictive and may seek revenge. Rage and anger may be another reaction stemming from being “outed”, so expect possible retaliation or vindictive behavior."
How to Spot a Pathological Liar How to Spot a Pathological Liar: 7 steps - wikiHow

So, Oldstyle, having been caught in numerous lies, continues to do the only thing that he can do. Which is lie more. You have never caught me in a lie, Oldstyle. Same old problem. I simply do not lie.

Now you, on the other hand, seem to be completely incapable of doing anything but attacking. Calling me a liar. Which you can never, ever prove. Because I do not lie.

It must be pathetic being you.

personal attack from liberal without IQ for substance-go away why waste our time!!

What?? You trying to help Oldstyle??? He needs help, but this is funny. A libertarian and a con tool, with a combined IQ of under 100??? Really, check out the following:

University Study Shows People With Lower IQ's Are Political Conservatives
University Study Shows People With Lower IQ's Are Political Conservatives


Brock University Study Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice | Racism, Bias & Politics | Right-Wing and Left-Wing Ideology | LiveScience


New Study Reveals That Stupidity Can Make You Conservative And Racist

U of Arkansas study Study ?Proves? Conservatism Linked To Stupidity - The Ulsterman Report

British Cohort study Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says controversial study - and conservative politics can lead people to be racist | Mail Online

LiveScience study Social conservatives have a lower I.Q.? (probably) : Gene Expression

Watching Fox makes you stupid http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...ews-actually-makes-you-less-informed-20120524

Alterman Study: Conservatives Display Ignorance | Nel's New Day

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So, Oldstyle, having been caught in numerous lies, continues to do the only thing that he can do. Which is lie more. You have never caught me in a lie, Oldstyle. Same old problem. I simply do not lie.

Now you, on the other hand, seem to be completely incapable of doing anything but attacking. Calling me a liar. Which you can never, ever prove. Because I do not lie.

It must be pathetic being you.

personal attack from liberal without IQ for substance-go away why waste our time!!

What?? You trying to help Oldstyle??? He needs help, but this is funny. A libertarian and a con tool, with a combined IQ of under 100??? Really, check out the following:

University Study Shows People With Lower IQ's Are Political Conservatives
University Study Shows People With Lower IQ's Are Political Conservatives


Brock University Study Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice | Racism, Bias & Politics | Right-Wing and Left-Wing Ideology | LiveScience


New Study Reveals That Stupidity Can Make You Conservative And Racist

U of Arkansas study Study ?Proves? Conservatism Linked To Stupidity - The Ulsterman Report

British Cohort study Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says controversial study - and conservative politics can lead people to be racist | Mail Online

LiveScience study Social conservatives have a lower I.Q.? (probably) : Gene Expression

Watching Fox makes you stupid Study: Watching Fox News Actually Makes You Stupid | Jillian Rayfield | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Alterman Study: Conservatives Display Ignorance | Nel's New Day

personal attack from liberal without IQ for substance-go away why waste our time!!

why not try to tell us again the theory behind how a liberal stimulus works???

 

[Oldstyle]

Right. Man, can you lie. Anyone with any background in economics knows what an economic theory is. And they know what an economic school of thought is. But only Oldstyle believes that a school of economics can advocate ANYTHING. Because, you see, that is what Oldstyle would LIKE to believe. Even though an Economic school is not a person, and by the basic definition of advocate, as I have shown you, can not possibly advocate. But Oldstyle does not care. He wants to push forward with his blather. On, and on, and on, and on. Because that is all that he is capable of doing.
It must suck to be Oldstyle.

You're right, Tommy! Anyone with a background in economics SHOULD know what is being referred to when someone brings up the term economic school! Yet you didn't. You didn't have a CLUE what I was asking for when I asked you what economic school advocated the theories that you espoused.

Which is why you are one of the bigger liars on this board.

Taught economics at the college level? Dude...I doubt you could even find the classroom...let alone teach the class! You're an internet fraud. One of those pathetic people who has to embellish who they are because they have so little self esteem. You ARE Tommy Flanagan.

Funny. You think that you have the stones to tell anyone what they know or do not know. A simple dish washer. You had two classes in econ, a degree in history, and a background washing dishes. Sorry, me boy, you do not impress anyone with your accusations.
Are you capable of discussing economics?? It would seem not.
And yes, of course you should know what an economic School of Thought is. Which I do. An economic school of thought is the same thing, me boy, as an economic theory.
What you are trying to hide, of course, is that you said "what economic school advocates". And, my poor pitiful dish washer, you do not need a degree in anything to know that a theory does not advocate. As we have been through before. Many, many times. It mist be pitiful to have to keep bringing up crap that you have already been thrashed on. Maybe you need to go look up the word advocate again.

So, poor Oldstyle. Trying as hard as possible to make some point. Whatever it is. In whatever subject it is. It must really suck to be you.

A theory does not advocate? That's gotta be one of the dumbest things ever posted on here. Seriously, Tommy...just admit that you didn't have a clue what I was talking about when I asked you what economic school you were basing your theories on. But you can't DO that...can you? Because if you admit THAT...then it's obvious that you don't have an extensive background in economics and you certainly never taught the subject at the college level...which means you have been telling lie after lie on this board.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm curious, Tommy...do you really think you annoy me with the whole "dishwasher" thing? I find that amusing actually because you swear that you never lie...yet we both know that you lie each and every time that you accuse me of being a dishwasher. I'm a food & beverage manager and have done that for over 30 years at some of the highest volume properties in the country.

You see, unlike yourself, I don't feel the need to embellish who I am and what I've done. I'll let the intelligence of my posts (or lack thereof) speak for themselves. Unlike you, I don't have to claim to have taught college economics or be a high powered executive with a private secretary!

 

[Oldstyle]

"And again, Oldstyle lies. I did not bring up "teaching college economics". I did not "teach college economics", but rather taught a breakout group for a professor. Which you know."

So now you're not the person who claimed to have taught economics in college? If you didn't bring it up, Tommy...then how would it ever have come up? A "breakout group"? What is a "breakout group"? You've tried to walk this lie back since you first told it, Tommy. First you taught college economics. But when you were asked where it was that you were a professor you changed your story to being an undergrad who taught for a professor. Then you clarified the story further by claiming that it was just part of the class...not the whole class. Now you've changed that to a "breakout group" (whatever THAT is!) which I assume from your expertise in the subject is a class led by someone who knows nothing about the topic being taught...which is quite the radical approach to providing a college education!

You're a text book pathological liar, Tommy...you continually try to "explain" improbable claims that you make by making more improbable claims...and if anyone questions those claims you react by attacking them with posts where you call into question their intelligence or honesty.

 

[Alcantara]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.
This politics has wanted by Northern Europe(especially by German and by Finland)but it was very wrong and dangerous in a general recession,while it would be appreciable in a other contingency;in fact,it increased public deficit and recessione in some States and it caused a deep hate in confront of United Europe's ideal.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.

of course thats stupid given that there was no austerity!!

The evidence is to the contrary. The European Union economies that have experienced the highest growth in the past three years—Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden—all take austerity seriously. The European Commission's Winter 2013 forecast shows a similar trend. The five fastest-growing economies in Europe are projected to be Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania—all fiscal hawks.

 

[Alcantara]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.

of course thats stupid given that there was no austerity!!

The evidence is to the contrary. The European Union economies that have experienced the highest growth in the past three years—Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden—all take austerity seriously. The European Commission's Winter 2013 forecast shows a similar trend. The five fastest-growing economies in Europe are projected to be Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania—all fiscal hawks.

I'm not contrary to the austerity,in a normal contingence.But in a long crise,that began in 2008,the austerity is a wrong idea for Southern Europe and for the european integration.

 

[Toro]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

Government spending in Greece has fallen from €125 million to €95 million.

• Greece - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Spain has fallen from €480 million to €450 million.

• Spain - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Portugal has fallen from €90 million to €80 million.

• Portugal - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Ireland has fallen from €100 million to €70 million.

• Ireland - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

 

[Norman]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.
This politics has wanted by Northern Europe(especially by German and by Finland)but it was very wrong and dangerous in a general recession,while it would be appreciable in a other contingency;in fact,it increased public deficit and recessione in some States and it caused a deep hate in confront of United Europe's ideal.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.

of course thats stupid given that there was no austerity!!

The evidence is to the contrary. The European Union economies that have experienced the highest growth in the past three years—Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden—all take austerity seriously. The European Commission's Winter 2013 forecast shows a similar trend. The five fastest-growing economies in Europe are projected to be Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania—all fiscal hawks.

I'm not contrary to the austerity,in a normal contingence.But in a long crise,that began in 2008,the austerity is a wrong idea for Southern Europe and for the european integration.

I disagree that austerity is bad, if the crisis is a DEBT crisis. You don't get out of that crisis by racking out more debt, but by being austere.

There is NO AUSTERITY in Finland or germany anyway. The debt of Finland at least rose over the legally allowed amount of EU, and Germany didn't have austerity in 2012 either:

It's funny though, that when criticising austerity you point out to the economies in best fiscal shape in europe. Don't you find that at all contradicting with your point? What exactly are you trying to prove?

Small export based economy like finland doesn't even benefit a lot from stimulus, even if you agree that stimulus generally works.

And if you look at the country of megaspending and stimulus, the USA; it isn't doing too great either. In addition to racking huge amounts of debt the unemploymenet situation still isn't too good and labor force participation has dropped to historical lows last time seen when women didn't even participate in the labor force. Success? I think not.

 

[bripat9643]

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.

of course thats stupid given that there was no austerity!!

The evidence is to the contrary. The European Union economies that have experienced the highest growth in the past three years—Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland and Sweden—all take austerity seriously. The European Commission's Winter 2013 forecast shows a similar trend. The five fastest-growing economies in Europe are projected to be Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania—all fiscal hawks.

I'm not contrary to the austerity,in a normal contingence.But in a long crise,that began in 2008,the austerity is a wrong idea for Southern Europe and for the european integration.

Let them spend all they want to, but the other members of the EU would be crazy to lend them another dime. What you're actually arguing for is welfare from the responsible countries to the spendthrift countries.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

In E.U. during last years(especially in 2012 but also in 2013)there wad an heavy politics of austerity,that amplified the big depression of European economy,especially of more indebted States,as Greece,Italy,Portugal and Spain.
This politics has wanted by Northern Europe(especially by German and by Finland)but it was very wrong and dangerous in a general recession,while it would be appreciable in a other contingency;in fact,it increased public deficit and recessione in some States and it caused a deep hate in confront of United Europe's ideal.

I'm not contrary to the austerity,in a normal contingence.But in a long crise,that began in 2008,the austerity is a wrong idea for Southern Europe and for the european integration.

I disagree that austerity is bad, if the crisis is a DEBT crisis. You don't get out of that crisis by racking out more debt, but by being austere.

There is NO AUSTERITY in Finland or germany anyway. The debt of Finland at least rose over the legally allowed amount of EU, and Germany didn't have austerity in 2012 either:

It's funny though, that when criticising austerity you point out to the economies in best fiscal shape in europe. Don't you find that at all contradicting with your point? What exactly are you trying to prove?

Small export based economy like finland doesn't even benefit a lot from stimulus, even if you agree that stimulus generally works.

And if you look at the country of megaspending and stimulus, the USA; it isn't doing too great either. In addition to racking huge amounts of debt the unemploymenet situation still isn't too good and labor force participation has dropped to historical lows last time seen when women didn't even participate in the labor force. Success? I think not.

yes !! we had Barry's idiotic $789 billion stimulus, the huge housing bubble stimulus, and 20 consecutive years of deficit stimulus, to get into the world's worst recession, and liberals want more stimulus????

How could that possible help?????

Can anyone say what the theory is or do all liberals lack the IQ to state the theory they support that doesn't exist???

 

[Grandma]

Ed, all economists agree that the stimulus was a good idea and that it worked. The only ones opposed to it are neocons that don't want Obama to succeed.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ed, all economists agree that the stimulus was a good idea and that it worked. The only ones opposed to it are neocons that don't want Obama to succeed.

Sorry, Grandma...but that statement is patently false...all economists do not agree that the Obama Stimulus was a good idea...nor do they agree that it "worked". Here's a clue as to why it DIDN'T work! You don't invent a statistic like "jobs created or saved" if your stimulus plan actually did what it was supposed to do, which was to create jobs. You do THAT if it DIDN'T work and you need to hide just how badly it failed!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ed, all economists agree that the stimulus was a good idea and that it worked. The only ones opposed to it are neocons that don't want Obama to succeed.

of course if true you would present some evidence!!

"40 or so economists surveyed agreed with the Congressional Budget Office, known as the CBO, that the unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus law. The survey asked a second question about whether—accounting for future costs arising from financing the stimulus with debt—its benefits would end up exceeding its costs. Here, 46 percent thought that they would and another 27 percent were uncertain, leaving only a small percentage that did not.

 

[Alcantara]

There is no austerity in europe. Each year the public debt is higher than last year, nominally and relative to GDP.

However, everything seems like austerity if you compare to USA.

Government spending in Greece has fallen from €125 million to €95 million.

• Greece - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Spain has fallen from €480 million to €450 million.

• Spain - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Portugal has fallen from €90 million to €80 million.

• Portugal - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

Government spending in Ireland has fallen from €100 million to €70 million.

• Ireland - Government revenue and spending 2013 | Statistic

In my opinion,an excessive austerity isn't just an economic mistake,as economic recession in Southern Europe demonstrates;it's mostly a TERRIBLE political error,because of a terrible disaffection in confront of Europeist ideal,especially in Southern Italy(Spain and Italy are traditionally Europeist countries,not Euro-sceptical countries as England!!!).
However,I don' believe that the economic strictness is not necessary but it would be moderate.In Italy we say that a cicada could no became an ant in a day!!!

 

[Alcantara]

European austerity consists of more taxation and more cuts to Welfare State.I'm a liberal and europeist but I believe that especially an increase of fiscal pression,as Monti's cabinet made in Italy in 2011/12,could be letal for Italian economy and so in Greece and Portugal.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In my opinion,an excessive austerity isn't just an economic mistake,

how can it be an economic mistake?? Government spending does not invent new products so it can't help an economy grow. This is Econ 101!! Have you even been to HS??

 

[Alcantara]

I'll repeat my opinion:I'm not contrary to economy strictness and I admit that Italian tradition-as in all Souther Europe-is not favourable to economic sobriety,except for some cabinets(Amato,Ciampi and Monti).
However,the hard politics made by former Prime Minister(Mario Monti)and wanted by Angela Merkel and by Northern Europe is a motive of further recession and a cause of hate towards European ideal.
The economic healing of Southern Europe would be gradual and progressive,otherwise it could kill the E.U.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

However,the hard politics made by former Prime Minister(Mario Monti)and wanted by Angela Merkel and by Northern Europe is a motive of further recession.

dear, hard politics or capitalism is the exact cure for recession!! This is Econ 101. Sorry